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Carmel Drops CG!


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24 minutes ago, Indiana Fan said:

Regardless of the story, don’t you think this is all way over done? I mean at some point think about how ridiculous this all is. Over high school sports. Kids make mistakes, adults make mistakes. Does that mean every personal associated with that school or community is that particular way? This is idiotic.

I used to love the MIC and travel to many games each season. I am saddened by the events from the past couple years to the dismantling of it. I cannot believe the biggest and best football schools in Indy are choosing to stray away from one particular school. This is a disaster for indianapolis football and it is dangerous for the IHSAA. I really hope things can get solved in the near future. Very sad days for Indy metro football right now.

Well Said.  Also, if you haven't seen the video from the incident.... the Carmel coach is a complete idiot.  Totally instigated the entire thing.  He pouts cause his team loses and starts stuff with a bunch of high school kids supporting their community and celebrating the win.  This was all his fault.  How did he not get suspended!!!!  

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14 minutes ago, StatQueen said:

Well Said.  Also, if you haven't seen the video from the incident.... the Carmel coach is a complete idiot.  Totally instigated the entire thing.  He pouts cause his team loses and starts stuff with a bunch of high school kids supporting their community and celebrating the win.  This was all his fault.  How did he not get suspended!!!!  

I’ve now heard this from three places…

Video anywhere?

Edited by temptation
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7 hours ago, HomeCookin said:

Lemme first start by saying I’m not a huge fan of court storming.  It’s not a mountain or hill I’m willing to die on but it’s a slippery slope when you mix fans, players and coaches.

That being said, this looks calculated.  Osborn has the wherewithal to guide his players and keep them out of harms way yet then charges right through the crowd students immediately thereafter.  It’s almost like he was looking for trouble.

Both parties share some of the blame but we should hold a leader of young people/adult to a higher standard.

Just my opinion…

(Oh, and one more…)

This decision comes across as weak as hell from Carmel.

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18 minutes ago, temptation said:

Lemme first start by saying I’m not a huge fan of court storming.  It’s not a mountain or hill I’m willing to die on but it’s a slippery slope when you mix fans, players and coaches.

That being said, this looks calculated.  Osborn has the wherewithal to guide his players and keep them out of harms way yet then charges right through the crowd students immediately thereafter.  It’s almost like he was looking for trouble.

Both parties share some of the blame but we should hold a leader of young people/adult to a higher standard.

Just my opinion…

(Oh, and one more…)

This decision comes across as weak as hell from Carmel.

I’d agree with everything you said, except do we actually know that this is the reason Carmel is dropping CG?  I would say no.

 

 In my personal opinion, it says more about Center Grove that all MIC schools and now Carmel have alienated them.

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7 minutes ago, HoosierFB_JG said:

I’d agree with everything you said, except do we actually know that this is the reason Carmel is dropping CG?  I would say no.

 

 In my personal opinion, it says more about Center Grove that all MIC schools and now Carmel have alienated them.

No, and we will likely never know but this is the most recent “incident” and is cited in Kyle’s article.

FWIW, CG swept Carmel at all three levels in boys basketball this year for the first time in school history.

Just bad timing and looks weak on Carmel’s part.  It’s insinuating that CG somehow has a culture problem which is sketchy at best.

The conspiracy theorist in me says this is Carmel virtue signaling in order to appease the MIC 6 and pad their application.

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11 minutes ago, HoosierFB_JG said:

I’d agree with everything you said, except do we actually know that this is the reason Carmel is dropping CG?  I would say no.

 

 In my personal opinion, it says more about Center Grove that all MIC schools and now Carmel have alienated them.

I agree.  Something is a-miss, and unjustfully so.  CG community schools is as classy as they come!!  Just doesn't make sense.  I don't think it can be shouted loud enough though... that a student in the video was suspended from school as CG took responsibility for their part in the rushing of the court, but nothing.... I repeat nothing has been done to the moronically unstable coach leading the Carmel boys hoops team.  Amazing!  Carmel was hoping this video would never come out I guess.

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Story is now on IndyStar.com:  https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/high-school/2023/02/09/carmel-asks-to-cancel-center-grove-game-contracts-in-all-sports-copper-kettle-indiana-high-school/69890541007/

Quote

It appears the longtime athletic rivalry between Center Grove and Carmel could be coming to an end.

Center Grove principal Jeff Henderson, in an email addressed to Center Grove families Thursday afternoon, said “our athletic director (Joe Bronkella) was informed by the athletic director at Carmel High School that Carmel desires to cancel their contracts with CGHS in all sports.”

Henderson went on to write, “This sudden request came as a shock, given the collaboration we have enjoyed over the last 25 years. We have reached out to Carmel to request a meeting to address any concerns they have regarding the future of our relationship.”

In a follow-up text to IndyStar, Henderson wrote that Center Grove was caught off-guard by the request and are waiting to hear back about a potential meeting.

“We value the 25-year relationship we have had with them and are awaiting their request to meet,” Henderson said. “Any additional comment prior to that would be premature.”

...

An incident that may have led to Carmel’s request happened after Center Grove’s 43-41 boys basketball home win over the Greyhounds on Jan. 6. Center Grove’s students rushed the floor and were celebrating in front of the Carmel bench. Carmel coach Ryan Osborn, walking through the Center Grove crowd, was pushed by a student.

“You can’t have that,” IHSAA commissioner Paul Neidig said last month about the incident. “You have a guy who makes his livelihood as a teacher and a kid makes a decision to shove him. He wouldn’t make that decision today. He knows he’s wrong. But he made the decision because he was in that situation and decided to shove a coach. It’s not good.”

The student received a three-day suspension for his actions. But the student’s father, after rewatching the video, said he believes Carmel — and Osborn — should also shoulder responsibility for the incident. In the video, Osborn directs his team to walk around the Center Grove students on the court, but then walks through the students. The father of the student, a senior, said he sent the video to Carmel’s administration, but never heard a response.

A message to Carmel athletic director Jim Inskeep was not immediately returned.

In his email, Henderson concluded: “Throughout the last year, we have been and continue to be guided by our goal to do what is best for our CGHS students. We want to provide our students with an athletic experience that includes competition and the support necessary to help them excel in their sports and grow into responsible young adults. We appreciate your support and patience with our administrative team and coaches, as we continue to work for what’s best for our students.”

 

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Kyle Neddenriep's (primary high school writer for the Indy Star) take on this situation:  https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/high-school/2023/02/10/carmel-center-grove-sports-drama-what-we-know-what-it-means-football-basketball-ihsaa-indiana/69893188007/

(Note: Story is behind a paywall)

Quote

....

If we have seen our last Copper Kettle game, that is disappointing on many levels. This conference shuffling around has disrupted some great rivalries (mostly involving Center Grove). Carmel-Center Grove football going away? That’s one of the most competitive and highly-attended games every year. People care.

Do we really care about Carmel vs. Christian Brothers from St. Louis or Center Grove vs. St. Edward in Ohio? Some of those games are good for state bragging rights occasionally, but Ben Davis-Warren Central and Carmel-Center Grove is the meat and potatoes. Those games are the real bragging rights — rivalries built over time.

This will also create unnecessary drama when the programs do inevitably meet in the state tournament. All of a sudden it becomes a bigger story and evokes bitter feelings. What is the main storyline if Carmel and Center Grove play in the state football championship in the fall? Or in basketball next month?

Maybe it can be worked out. Maybe it can’t. But I fail to see how taking away the Copper Kettle rivalry is good for high school sports in Central Indiana.

 

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So let me get this straight....

  • A coach rightfully directs his team around the students who stormed the court 
  • The same coach purposely walks through the heart of the crowd of students, bumping into several of them
  • A kid pushes the coach and gets suspended (the kid shouldn't have pushed the coach, I get it)
  • Soon after the incident, Carmel notifies Center Grove that they want to back out of all future events between the schools

Has there been any response at all from Carmel on the matter? Both on the desire to back out of future athletic contests AND any sort of consequence for their coach's immature and stupid actions? Either the coach expected the students to create a path for him through their celebration or he knew there would be some sort of conflict. Either way, it shows arrogance, immaturity and poor leadership. I don't expect the guy to be fired, but there needs to be accountability. I hold adults at a much higher level of expectations than teenage students and I'd hope that Carmel does as well.

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16 minutes ago, FlyingHigh said:

So let me get this straight....

  • A coach rightfully directs his team around the students who stormed the court 
  • The same coach purposely walks through the heart of the crowd of students, bumping into several of them
  • A kid pushes the coach and gets suspended (the kid shouldn't have pushed the coach, I get it)
  • Soon after the incident, Carmel notifies Center Grove that they want to back out of all future events between the schools

Has there been any response at all from Carmel on the matter? Both on the desire to back out of future athletic contests AND any sort of consequence for their coach's immature and stupid actions? Either the coach expected the students to create a path for him through their celebration or he knew there would be some sort of conflict. Either way, it shows arrogance, immaturity and poor leadership. I don't expect the guy to be fired, but there needs to be accountability. I hold adults at a much higher level of expectations than teenage students and I'd hope that Carmel does as well.

Yes, and Carmel's vague defense of pulling out of all contracts doesn't help the matter.  Its a gross overreaction and I'd actually rather them come out and SAY that isn't the reason or else folks are going to speculate and not give them the benefit of the doubt, nor should they.

If you are penalizing thousands of student athletes due to a knee jerk reaction (of an event that is a 50/50 split in terms of responsibility at WORST) that is awful leadership.

But hey, the Carmel AD has an outstanding relationship with the remaining MIC members, which is what's really important, right @BDGiant93?

This smells rotten.

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17 minutes ago, temptation said:

If you are penalizing thousands of student athletes due to a knee jerk reaction (of an event that is a 50/50 split in terms of responsibility at WORST) that is awful leadership.

I get that if the contract cancellations were caused by the issue at the basketball game in January, then that is probably an overreaction.

How are THOUSANDS OF STUDENT ATHLETES being penalized?  It's one game per year per sport, and those games will probably be replaced with other games. Therefore, no student athletes will play less games in a year. 

Why does anyone outside of CG and Carmel really care if they play each other in the regular season?

Looking at both schools tentative 2023 football schedules, Carmel is still playing every MIC school except Pike, and CG is only playing LC and LN.

Edited by Southside
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12 minutes ago, Southside said:

I get that if the contract cancellations were caused by the issue at the basketball game in January, then that is probably an overreaction.

How are THOUSANDS OF STUDENT ATHLETES being penalized?  It's one game per year per sport, and those games will probably be replaced with other games. Therefore, no student athletes will play less games in a year. 

Why does anyone outside of CG and Carmel really care if they play each other in the regular season?

Looking at both schools tentative 2023 football schedules, Carmel is still playing every MIC school except Pike, and CG is only playing LC and LN.

They are annually two of the top 5 programs in the state.  
 

Simply put: It’s good for the sport and the state.

 

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14 minutes ago, Southside said:

So... how are THOUSANDS of student athletes being penalized?  It's just one game per year per sport.  They could still play in the playoffs.  Imagine the hype for those games!!

If it wasn’t a big deal, then you wouldn’t be on here posting and reading about it, there wouldn’t be articles in Indystar about it, and there wouldn’t be news stations running it as a top headline. 

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1 minute ago, Indiana Fan said:

If it wasn’t a big deal, then you wouldn’t be on here posting and reading about it, there wouldn’t be articles in Indystar about it, and there wouldn’t be news stations running it as a top headline. 

I didn't say that the adults in Indiana don't feel like its a big deal.   I get that the adults are upset about it. 

I specifically would like to know... how are thousands of student athletes being penalized?  I just don't see how the athletes at either school are being penalized.  If they were losing out on games, at bats, football snaps, etc. then I could see it, but they will probably not have any less games because the two schools won't play in the regular season in the future.  Those games will be replaced with others.

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1 hour ago, temptation said:

Yes, and Carmel's vague defense of pulling out of all contracts doesn't help the matter.  Its a gross overreaction and I'd actually rather them come out and SAY that isn't the reason or else folks are going to speculate and not give them the benefit of the doubt, nor should they.

If you are penalizing thousands of student athletes due to a knee jerk reaction (of an event that is a 50/50 split in terms of responsibility at WORST) that is awful leadership.

But hey, the Carmel AD has an outstanding relationship with the remaining MIC members, which is what's really important, right @BDGiant93?

This smells rotten.

 

thisisbait.png

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12 minutes ago, Southside said:

I didn't say that the adults in Indiana don't feel like its a big deal.   I get that the adults are upset about it. 

I specifically would like to know... how are thousands of student athletes being penalized?  I just don't see how the athletes at either school are being penalized.  If they were losing out on games, at bats, football snaps, etc. then I could see it, but they will probably not have any less games because the two schools won't play in the regular season in the future.  Those games will be replaced with others.

I believe CG is being hurt by not just this instance but by the entirety of all the remaining “MIC” schools choosing to not play them. There are kids losing opportunities or will lose opportunities. 

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1 hour ago, Southside said:

I didn't say that the adults in Indiana don't feel like its a big deal.   I get that the adults are upset about it. 

I specifically would like to know... how are thousands of student athletes being penalized?  I just don't see how the athletes at either school are being penalized.  If they were losing out on games, at bats, football snaps, etc. then I could see it, but they will probably not have any less games because the two schools won't play in the regular season in the future.  Those games will be replaced with others.

Iron sharpens iron.

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4 hours ago, tango said:

How so? 

Schools choosing to isolate a specific school in particular sports. What does that say about our society and adults? This can only set a precedent for other schools to do the same. You don’t see the HHC kicking new pal out and then schools choosing to not play them when they have gone through their dominant years. CG is a public school that is a huge contributor for the Ihsaa. They need to step in. It is dangerous for what could continue to happen or what potentially could happen in the future for the state of athletics in Indiana high school sports.

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