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Carmel Drops CG!


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14 hours ago, Southside said:

So... how are THOUSANDS of student athletes being penalized?  It's just one game per year per sport.  They could still play in the playoffs.  Imagine the hype for those games!!

Yes.  Both of these athletic programs are at the top of their game in multiple sports and it sucks for the kids and the publicity of the particular sport in an instance where adults got in the way of a potential outstanding regular season matchup that could be a litmus test for both programs prior to the state tournament.

if there is a cross country/track meet, is Carmel checking the entry list to see that CG is not there?

How about a swimming invitational?

This is dumb.

Edited by temptation
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I can see it now…

2038:  

“Hey coach did you see that we are now ranked number two in the state?”

“Yes, I did but rankings don’t matter.”

“Who is that team ranked number one and will we ever get to face them?”

“No kid, some adults got hurt feelings a few years back and we had too many differences.”

“Boy that stinks, I hope I never have to have a job where I work alongside someone I disagree with.”

Edited by temptation
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Would have guessed the state's largest school would also be the pettiest?

This looks like an overreaction by the Carmel administration.  It appears they got beat, so they are taking their ball and going home.  At least they can find some swimmers in a school of 5,000 and remain dominant in something. 

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15 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said:

Would have guessed the state's largest school would also be the pettiest?

This looks like an overreaction by the Carmel administration.  It appears they got beat, so they are taking their ball and going home.  At least they can find some swimmers in a school of 5,000 and remain dominant in something. 

Ouch!

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17 hours ago, Indiana Fan said:

Schools choosing to isolate a specific school in particular sports. What does that say about our society and adults? This can only set a precedent for other schools to do the same. You don’t see the HHC kicking new pal out and then schools choosing to not play them when they have gone through their dominant years. CG is a public school that is a huge contributor for the Ihsaa. They need to step in. It is dangerous for what could continue to happen or what potentially could happen in the future for the state of athletics in Indiana high school sports.

I know nothing about this CG - Carmel situation, but I personally don't believe the IHSAA has any business involving itself in scheduling. Sounds as though this might be a great opportunity for CG to look to IL, KY and OH teams. 

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7 hours ago, tango said:

I know nothing about this CG - Carmel situation, but I personally don't believe the IHSAA has any business involving itself in scheduling. Sounds as though this might be a great opportunity for CG to look to IL, KY and OH teams. 

They have...Lakewood St. Edward (Bobref's alma mater near Cleveland), Cincinnati Moeller, and Louisville Trinity.

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Since it appears caramel is not going to release a statement and be transparent about this issue publicly let’s go ahead and get this out of the way.

Now that their homework assignment is complete, how long until Carmel and a member to be named later are announced as new members of the MIC?

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20 minutes ago, temptation said:

Since it appears caramel is not going to release a statement and be transparent about this issue publicly let’s go ahead and get this out of the way.

Now that their homework assignment is complete, how long until Carmel and a member to be named later are announced as new members of the MIC?

I don’t know about Carmel, but CG was talking about being back to a “normal” conference schedule by 2025. Not sure which conference though.

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3 hours ago, temptation said:

Since it appears caramel is not going to release a statement and be transparent about this issue publicly let’s go ahead and get this out of the way.

Now that their homework assignment is complete, how long until Carmel and a member to be named later are announced as new members of the MIC?

I have been out of town, but reading much about Carmel's plans to drop CG from all athletic competition.  If this is truly about the basketball game with the student's rushing the floor, this really has my head scratching.  I watch the video of a coach sending his players to walk around the students, yet he decides to aggressively push through the students bumping multiple kids along the way.  And this is ok?  Why didn't the head coach simply walk with his players?  It would seem its the classic direction, "do what I say and not what I do". A 40+ year old man decides to push his way through a group of students in lieu of simply walking around them? And this is what Carmel admin is upset about?  Yet they won't comment nor state how they plan to hold their coach accountable for an incident they initiated.  So you drop your top rival for 25 years over that one incident?  Its ok to have your players running off a field of competition for gun shots at a venue, but this type of incident self-instigated is the back breaker?? It makes zero sense......unless....

There is something deeper....I too believe Carmel is working to distance themselves from CG, to win favor from a number of MIC schools to get re-admitted to the conference.  There is something more going on here.  25 years together competing and can't even reach out to their rival school to discuss like adults?  Blind side with an announcement to the same school that stuck besides them when attempting to join the HCC?  

But hey...as one long time GID member (just happens to be a BD guy) praises the Carmel AD for being such a swell human being recently in a post, indicating that may be enough to get Carmel into the MIC.  I honestly thought it was a joke at the time of his post, given it would take more for the state's largest school to get re-admitted to a conference they had scorned a year later, than simply having a "likeable" AD.  Now I am guessing he had more insight that I realized.  

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On 2/11/2023 at 11:45 AM, oldtimeqb said:

Would have guessed the state's largest school would also be the pettiest?

This looks like an overreaction by the Carmel administration.  It appears they got beat, so they are taking their ball and going home.  At least they can find some swimmers in a school of 5,000 and remain dominant in something. 

I would expect no less from Carmel.   I'd add '"hypocrisy" btw along with "pettiness".

In fact, one might drown (swimming titles being surfeit) in the hypocrisy - aside from the fact Carmel has LONG been the public version of Cathedral - who they also have long hated.

At least Cathedral is honest about just who they are (its not like they hide it) -  without all the moral posturing BS....they simply want to win championships (ie. Basketball teams with no single CYO player to be found) and will find a means to accommodate that goal (find $ to pay tuition) whatever state you live in, color you might be or whatever "God" you care to worship....so long as you can help get that State Ring. 

No doubt Cathedal would wait until 6'9", 30 points/10 rebounds per game "Beelzebub" graduated before they found an even distant need for a postseason exorcist.

With that, Carmel appears to love the lazy/easy/sad/DISEASED "trope" that somehow being a single geographic millimeter "North" of your opponent makes you somehow morally superior is more than sickening....and truly false.  As someone who grew up in southern Indiana, it makes me puke a bit when Carmel even vaguely tries to use the race card in its favor.  I've lived in both worlds...and lived North in Indianapolis since college...some 40 years ago.  

I'd take Center Grove's ability and quite clear willingness to welcome people of different races, creeds and religions any day of the week over Carmel - push coming to shove....if Carmel is truly forcing me to choose. 

 

 

Edited by Lysander
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4 hours ago, Lysander said:

With that, Carmel appears to love the lazy/easy/sad/DISEASED "trope" that somehow being a single geographic millimeter "North" of your opponent makes you somehow morally superior is more than sickening....and truly false. 

 

King/Queen of the country club sports baby!

Carmel girls swimming's 37th straight IHSAA state title is its most-dominant yet: https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/high-school/2023/02/11/indiana-girls-swimming-carmel-sets-new-ihsaa-state-meet-record-alex-shackell-berit-berglund-2023/69876644007/

Quote

The Carmel girls swim team didn’t just win its 37th consecutive IHSAA state championship Saturday – extending its national record — it made a case this is the most dominant team in Indiana high school history. 

The Greyhounds took down a national record and five state records at IUPUI’s Natatorium in extending their reign, winning 10 of the 11 swimming events. Their 498 points shattered the state record 479 the program set in 2021.

How can a program like this ever be stopped?

 

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56 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

How can a program like this ever be stopped?

 

Not likely....families move across country just to put their elite kids in this program.  USA Diving is also headquartered in Indy so that is an additional incentive.  Ironically it doesn't seem like Carmel had a very good diver this year?

Its not just that they won...they more than doubled the points of 2nd place Fishers.  Carmel won all but 2 or 3 events and had multiple girls in the top 3 in almost all of them...swept at least one.

We always think of football first when we discuss the conference affiliations...but can you blame a Fishers girls swim program that would then have to share a conference meet, sectional, etc with Carmel.  I'm not accusing Carmel of doing ANYTHING inappropriate...its arguably the most successful high school program of any sport of all time!  But looking at it from another school's perspective, I at least understanding the desire to say "no thanks" to Carmel being in your conference.  

Edited by US31
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2 hours ago, Muda69 said:

King/Queen of the country club sports baby!

Carmel girls swimming's 37th straight IHSAA state title is its most-dominant yet: https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/high-school/2023/02/11/indiana-girls-swimming-carmel-sets-new-ihsaa-state-meet-record-alex-shackell-berit-berglund-2023/69876644007/

How can a program like this ever be stopped?

 

 

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7 hours ago, Lysander said:

I would expect no less from Carmel.   I'd add '"hypocrisy" btw along with "pettiness".

In fact, one might drown (swimming titles being surfeit) in the hypocrisy - aside from the fact Carmel has LONG been the public version of Cathedral - who they also have long hated.

At least Cathedral is honest about just who they are (its not like they hide it) -  without all the moral posturing BS....they simply want to win championships (ie. Basketball teams with no single CYO player to be found) and will find a means to accommodate that goal (find $ to pay tuition) whatever state you live in, color you might be or whatever "God" you care to worship....so long as you can help get that State Ring. 

No doubt Cathedal would wait until 6'9", 30 points/10 rebounds per game "Beelzebub" graduated before they found an even distant need for a postseason exorcist.

With that, Carmel appears to love the lazy/easy/sad/DISEASED "trope" that somehow being a single geographic millimeter "North" of your opponent makes you somehow morally superior is more than sickening....and truly false.  As someone who grew up in southern Indiana, it makes me puke a bit when Carmel even vaguely tries to use the race card in its favor.  I've lived in both worlds...and lived North in Indianapolis since college...some 40 years ago.  

I'd take Center Grove's ability and quite clear willingness to welcome people of different races, creeds and religions any day of the week over Carmel - push coming to shove....if Carmel is truly forcing me to choose. 

 

 

Just when you think its impossible to dislike Carmel any more than you already do...

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2 hours ago, US31 said:

Not likely....families move across country just to put their elite kids in this program.  USA Diving is also headquartered in Indy so that is an additional incentive.  Ironically it doesn't seem like Carmel had a very good diver this year?

Interesting enough, Center Grove's leading diver won the state championship for the 2nd year in a row.  The junior finished 2nd her freshman year.  Next year she will be a senior, and it would seem she won't be competing against Carmel.  

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On 2/12/2023 at 1:52 PM, Bash Riprock said:

I have been out of town, but reading much about Carmel's plans to drop CG from all athletic competition.  If this is truly about the basketball game with the student's rushing the floor, this really has my head scratching.  I watch the video of a coach sending his players to walk around the students, yet he decides to aggressively push through the students bumping multiple kids along the way.  And this is ok?  Why didn't the head coach simply walk with his players?  It would seem its the classic direction, "do what I say and not what I do". A 40+ year old man decides to push his way through a group of students in lieu of simply walking around them? And this is what Carmel admin is upset about?  Yet they won't comment nor state how they plan to hold their coach accountable for an incident they initiated.  So you drop your top rival for 25 years over that one incident?  Its ok to have your players running off a field of competition for gun shots at a venue, but this type of incident self-instigated is the back breaker?? It makes zero sense......unless....

There is something deeper....I too believe Carmel is working to distance themselves from CG, to win favor from a number of MIC schools to get re-admitted to the conference.  There is something more going on here.  25 years together competing and can't even reach out to their rival school to discuss like adults?  Blind side with an announcement to the same school that stuck besides them when attempting to join the HCC?  

But hey...as one long time GID member (just happens to be a BD guy) praises the Carmel AD for being such a swell human being recently in a post, indicating that may be enough to get Carmel into the MIC.  I honestly thought it was a joke at the time of his post, given it would take more for the state's largest school to get re-admitted to a conference they had scorned a year later, than simply having a "likeable" AD.  Now I am guessing he had more insight that I realized.  

You can always say my name if you want to get my attention. If you go back, my comments were based upon how the relationship with former MIC-mates has not frosted so much towards the school to the north. Context is important, but I know that's difficult for some. But, it's really easy to tag people @Bash Riprock. Then you get a little notification. 

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Everybody should want to attend Carmel High School, right?: https://www.indystar.com/story/news/local/hamilton-county/carmel/2023/02/13/carmel-high-school-students-tiktok-videos-natatorium-stadium-auditorium-studios-auto-shop/69899563007/

 

BTW, the middle school at my little 'ole podunk rural school corporation had a working planetarium when I attended it.  Seemed pretty cool at the time.  I hear it's closed now, the room repurposed for something else.

 

 

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44 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

You can always say my name if you want to get my attention. If you go back, my comments were based upon how the relationship with former MIC-mates has not frosted so much towards the school to the north. Context is important, but I know that's difficult for some. But, it's really easy to tag people @Bash Riprock. Then you get a little notification. 

Didn't remember your name and does it matter?  You can read and figure it out.  Regardless, it didn't matter to me.  BTW, I understood what you stated and implied the first time.  

So you have insight as to how all the MIC school administrations feel about Carmel AD?  Good for you...guess you are "in the know"

 

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10 hours ago, Lysander said:

I would expect no less from Carmel.   I'd add '"hypocrisy" btw along with "pettiness".

In fact, one might drown (swimming titles being surfeit) in the hypocrisy - aside from the fact Carmel has LONG been the public version of Cathedral - who they also have long hated.

At least Cathedral is honest about just who they are (its not like they hide it) -  without all the moral posturing BS....they simply want to win championships (ie. Basketball teams with no single CYO player to be found) and will find a means to accommodate that goal (find $ to pay tuition) whatever state you live in, color you might be or whatever "God" you care to worship....so long as you can help get that State Ring. 

No doubt Cathedal would wait until 6'9", 30 points/10 rebounds per game "Beelzebub" graduated before they found an even distant need for a postseason exorcist.

With that, Carmel appears to love the lazy/easy/sad/DISEASED "trope" that somehow being a single geographic millimeter "North" of your opponent makes you somehow morally superior is more than sickening....and truly false.  As someone who grew up in southern Indiana, it makes me puke a bit when Carmel even vaguely tries to use the race card in its favor.  I've lived in both worlds...and lived North in Indianapolis since college...some 40 years ago.  

I'd take Center Grove's ability and quite clear willingness to welcome people of different races, creeds and religions any day of the week over Carmel - push coming to shove....if Carmel is truly forcing me to choose. 

There's really no reason for you to bring Cathedral into this discussion.  Cathedral has nothing to do with this whole situation, in fact they will play both schools in football next year.  Cathedra also is a private school and enrolls young students from throughout the area.  In fact there's a family in Speedway that has an Irish sign in their front yard, and I know Cathedral students come from as far as Avon and Brownsburg, out here on the west side.  All students at Cathedral are recruited, and I'm sure you've read that here before.  No reason for you to vent against the Irish in this thread.  I would think you, of all ;people, would know better.  You've posted here for quite a long time.

As for the Carmel coach, he should have been disciplined for his actions either by Carmel or the IHSAA.  This situation happened in early January and no discipline has been assessed against him, and that's a shame.  Over on the basketball forum, Carmel folks are making outrageous excuses for his behavior.  I've seen three videos and none of them excuse him for his actions.

 

 

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