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HNAC Expansion Talk


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Bringing the conversation over from the Harrell site.

 

Looks like John Glenn and Bremen are making a push to enter the HNAC in the future. Conference members have met and will vote sometime in March. I'll be curious to see if the potential 10 team conference moves to divisions and how they will determine football scheduling. 

 

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I'll be curious to see the outcome. If they go Divisions, Big School Small School would essentially be a North South split with the exception of Triton. I'd like at least one open week on the football schedule for an out of conference game. I'm not a fan of playing a closed conference regular season. I'm also wondering that if those two are admitted if any schools would choose to leave.

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On 2/24/2023 at 3:19 PM, Julio said:

Big School (3A/2A) = Knox, Glenn, Bremen, Laville, Winamac

Small School (1A) = North Judson, Culver, Canton, Triton, Pioneer

4 regular season open weeks to look for new opponents, or keep what you can.

 

Would it be more beneficial, even with a big school/small school split to do something akin to the Hoosier?  Play all within your division, two cross-division during the season, and crossover championship based on place in division in Week 9.  You could, in theory, play up Week 9 as David vs. Goliath although a couple of those Davids might look more like Goliath in some seasons.  Triton and North Judson are more than capable of holding their own and, if Pioneer's able to rebuild a bit, they could be back in that mix too.  Given that Bremen and Glenn played SB Clay and SB Washington, respectively, for the Week 9 game in the last couple of years, their Week 9 matchup, under this proposal, would likely do more to get them ready for post-season than the aforementioned two teams.  For the 1A teams, there's a probable step up as well for Week 9.

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I've never been a fan of conferences larger than 8 schools, but I suppose I should adjust with the times.  Ten+ schools seems to be the trend these days.

I find it interesting that Bremen is ready to break their ties with Jimtown and leave them out to dry in the NIC.  It seemed when the NSC broke up Bremen was joined at the hip with the Jimmies and was ready to ride that relationship to the end, even if it meant the NIC.  Apparently things have changed...

I don't think we would be in this situation if New Prairie had left the NSC and joined the NIC back in the mid-to-late 2000s.  North Judson could have replaced them in the NSC and I think the conference would still be in tact and as strong as ever.  But that's water under the bridge.

If you have 10 teams, I like the Hoosier model with a couple crossover games and a championship final week.  I'd be in favor of rotating the crossover games so you get to play everyone every 2-3 years.

Does adding Bremen and Glenn push Caston back toward the Midwest?

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I find it hard to believe Pioneer and Caston would be for this from a travel distance standpoint alone. For Pioneer this would add 2 more roughly one hour drives for conference opponents. I know this might seem like a big deal, but the fuel costs start to add up when you factor in all of the additional varsity, JV and junior high games, events and matched that they will need to travel to.

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I was at New Prairie when they left the NSC, it was a package deal for the NIC to take New Prairie, Glenn, Breman, and Jimtown together.  New Prairie wanted to go by themselves, but the other 3 schools convinced them to stay as a group and apply to the NIC together.

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1 hour ago, FinePrint said:

I've never been a fan of conferences larger than 8 schools, but I suppose I should adjust with the times.  Ten+ schools seems to be the trend these days.

I find it interesting that Bremen is ready to break their ties with Jimtown and leave them out to dry in the NIC.  It seemed when the NSC broke up Bremen was joined at the hip with the Jimmies and was ready to ride that relationship to the end, even if it meant the NIC.  Apparently things have changed...

I don't think we would be in this situation if New Prairie had left the NSC and joined the NIC back in the mid-to-late 2000s.  North Judson could have replaced them in the NSC and I think the conference would still be in tact and as strong as ever.  But that's water under the bridge.

If you have 10 teams, I like the Hoosier model with a couple crossover games and a championship final week.  I'd be in favor of rotating the crossover games so you get to play everyone every 2-3 years.

Does adding Bremen and Glenn push Caston back toward the Midwest?

As a South Newton alumnus, I wouldn't mind having Caston back in the league.  Yeah, I know of the distance between Kentland and Rochester is a long one, but the current MWC membership is too low.

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Bremen appearently is losing tons of gate money in most sports playing the South Bend schools.  The leadership at that school has been suspect for almost 20 years now.  They don't tend to have much foresight when it comes to the big picture. They are tend to be like the little dutch boy and his finger in the dike. They keep trying to plug holes with the easy solution and have really layed a ground work for success. They have a few good coaches in some programs, but other programs they just keep rinsing and repeating.  There hasn't been any financially investement of note in athletic facilities in almost 30 years. They have lost some good coaches to other places because the coaches are more invested in success then the actual school.  The like to brag about giving kids oppurtunities, but the oppurtunities don't have much cooridination in a school wide plan. I know there is some new energy in the elemetary school for some sports, but I'm afraid once those kids and parents move up no one will continue the effort.  

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6 hours ago, Gipper said:

As a South Newton alumnus, I wouldn't mind having Caston back in the league.  Yeah, I know of the distance between Kentland and Rochester is a long one, but the current MWC membership is too low.

Non Football people may argue that 9 would not benefit the non football sports with the addition of Faith Christian and DeMotte Christian to the MWC this year.

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1 hour ago, CoachDurham said:

Non Football people may argue that 9 would not benefit the non football sports with the addition of Faith Christian and DeMotte Christian to the MWC this year.

At least DeMotte's in the same timezone with SouthNewton. :classic_laugh:

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From a football standpoint, at least as of 2023, Glenn and Bremen would be middle of the pack teams. Enrollment wise, I wonder if Glenn and Knox would continue to be good fits as they continue to expand in the future. Hopefully the decision makers are looking at the long term and not just a see what fits now mentality. 

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36 minutes ago, Major said:

Well now that Triton, Caston and Culver have said no to Bremen and John Glenn what is next?

That's what those schools should be saying.  Pioneer should be next.  Why would the small 1A schools want to bring in two additional schools with double their enrollments?

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50 minutes ago, FinePrint said:

That's what those schools should be saying.  Pioneer should be next.  Why would the small 1A schools want to bring in two additional schools with double their enrollments?

Can't see Triton, Caston, Winamac, Pioneer or Culver being in favor. I think Judson would be on the border. 

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1 hour ago, FinePrint said:

That's what those schools should be saying.  Pioneer should be next.  Why would the small 1A schools want to bring in two additional schools with double their enrollments?

To become more tournament ready. Not one school in the HNAC(from the 1A schools) is close to matching the physicality of Adams Central and possibly even South Adams. Adding these two schools is only going to make you tougher when it comes to tournament time. It's going to be a while before any of those teams are able to compete for a conference title regardless of the other two teams joining or not so I don't see what it's going to hurt. Just going to make you better.

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9 minutes ago, First_Backer_Inside said:

To become more tournament ready. Not one school in the HNAC(from the 1A schools) is close to matching the physicality of Adams Central and possibly even South Adams. Adding these two schools is only going to make you tougher when it comes to tournament time. It's going to be a while before any of those teams are able to compete for a conference title regardless of the other two teams joining or not so I don't see what it's going to hurt. Just going to make you better.

I hear this line of thinking all the time.  But if this were actually true, the old NSC would have never broken up.  Culver, Triton, LaVille would have been winning sectionals left and right!  But look back at the facts.  That simply didn't happen!  Playing Bremen, Glenn, New Prairie and Jimtown every year DID NOT result in the small 1A teams having any kind of sustained tournament success!  In fact, Triton has been much more competitive in tournament play since leaving the NSC.

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11 minutes ago, First_Backer_Inside said:

To become more tournament ready. Not one school in the HNAC(from the 1A schools) is close to matching the physicality of Adams Central and possibly even South Adams. Adding these two schools is only going to make you tougher when it comes to tournament time. It's going to be a while before any of those teams are able to compete for a conference title regardless of the other two teams joining or not so I don't see what it's going to hurt. Just going to make you better.

Completely agree from a football standpoint. When you factor in all of the other sports being played I don't see the small schools wanting them to join.

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In order to build a sustained football program that can compete with the best in the class, the first thing you need is a winning culture.  When you consistently get beat up by larger programs, you won't build a winning culture.  I've seen it first hand.  My oldest son played football at Triton in the NSC.  They had some decent athletes but consistently lost by 40-50 points to the larger schools.  (New Prairie was ahead 63-0 at halftime one year.)  While they gave it their best efforts, they couldn't compete and never gained the confidence needed to be successful, even when playing other 1A schools.

I then had 2 sons play in the HNAC.  And even though they lost huge to Pioneer every year, they gained great confidence by competing with and beating teams from similar sized schools.  They played for 2 sectional titles and won in a year that had 4 HNAC teams likely among the top 10 teams in all of 1A.  (2018 - Pioneer, LaVille, North Judson, Triton)

Yes, the competition you play matters.  But it has to be balanced.  Playing bigger schools doesn't automatically result in a more competitive team.

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