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New Northern Indiana league is coming


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For the life of me, NEVER understood the thought process in adding the small schools to the NIC with Penn.  It wasn't a good thing for those schools, and in my opinion has been a reason for the decline of Penn in a lot of sports.  Penn needed to either go West or East and join a more appropriate conference or try to pick a few NW or FtW area schools and become a toll road conference.  I know they had the two divisions...but "Blah, blah, blah,...."

Rochester woulud be an obvious fit if they wanted to go with TV (eons ago, weren't they in NLC?)

Would NJ view this as a superior conference?  Would seem weird if they weren't with Knox/Lav...

Curious if this new conference has any desire to add some P/P schools.  I could completely understand them saying no.....But StJ & Marian? CMA? 

And if CMA maybe Culver Comm?

Edited by US31
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10 minutes ago, US31 said:

For the life of me, NEVER understood the thought process in adding the small schools to the NIC with Penn.  It wasn't a good thing for those schools, and in my opinion has been a reason for the decline of Penn in a lot of sports.  Penn needed to either go West or East and join a more appropriate conference or try to pick a few NW or FtW area schools and become a toll road conference.  I know they had the two divisions...but "Blah, blah, blah,...."

Rochester woulud be an obvious fit if they wanted to go with TV (eons ago, weren't they in NLC?)

Would NJ view this as a superior conference?  Would seem weird if they weren't with Knox/Lav...

Curious if this new conference has any desire to add some P/P schools.  I could completely understand them saying no.....But StJ & Marian? CMA? 

And if CMA maybe Culver Comm?

I think the NIC offered the 4 schools a lifeline. I don't think the decision was made for or against Penn, and probably waas more of a move for the South Bend Schools to have more winnable games in football and other sports.  In some cases it worked, and other cases it didn't.  From what I have heard from Bremen people that this change is not coming as a result of competition but more of a financial decision.  The gate Bremen was recieving from playing certain schools was down dramatically compared to when they played in the NSC.  This is about getting similiar schools with similiar fan bases that will lead to larger gate reciepts. Bremen hasn't been over its head competion wise in most sports other than basketball, and the basketball issue isn't a conference issue its a commitment to the program problem that started back 20 years ago at the end of the Gary Hudson era.  Failure on the part of the adminastration to hire quick fixes instead of having a winning vision.  Thats a Bremen problem. 

 

I am sure that they have feelers out to several schools, as an idiot fan who has no real insight, my targets would be Fairfield and Rochester.  After that Judson and possibly Wawasee. Then you could look at St. Joe and Marian.  CMA brings strong competion but doesn't bring in gate. They would not be considered in my opinion.

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I have no way of knowing, but I feel like Fairfield and Wawasee are fairly happy in their current conferences (NECC & NLC repectively).  

Wawasee has recently struggled in NLC but have been at the top in a wide variety of sports in the not to distant past.  Unless their enrollment is dropping, I don't see a reason for them to make the jump.

Fairfield is interesting as they are definitley trending up and are becoming a big fish in the NECC pond.  They will likely continue to see enrollment growth as you see more families leaving "other nearby schools" for a better situation.  There are still other similar size schools in the NECC, so FF isn't completley outgrowing them yet.

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11 minutes ago, MacAttack53 said:

Rochester seems like a logical fit. 

Honestly, I'm shocked that Valley is leaving the TRC.

Fairfield to Knox is probably at least an hour and a half or so and a time change. Wawasee probably at least as far as Fairfield.

1 hour 15 minutes from Fairfield to Knox.

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7 minutes ago, Whiting89 said:

Funny how some rumor posts get traction and allowed but others dont

I really do not see why a new conference discussion would not be allowed.

Here was my follow up on the topic to clarify a couple things in detail. 

On 8/31/2022 at 8:54 AM, Irishman said:

For those who feel strongly enough that rumors should be allowed on the site, keep in mind a couple things.
1. These standards were the same standards that Tim Adams, the creator of this site had in place. 

2. This is HIGH SCHOOL football, not college or pro football where athletes and coaches are paid very well to do what they do. We are talking about kids, teachers, and parents. Posting rumors of those people puts indivi9duals in a spotlight that they do not necessarily deserve. 

As far injury rumors, every student has a right to privacy. Posting of possible injuries to specific players without their knowing is a significant violation of their right to privacy. This is not the place to break news. If there is a story or a public post from an injured player or a parent of one, or if there is a news story...ok. Feel free to discuss that here. 

TA actually limited the discussion on coaching rumors; but mostly from the standpoint of coaching jobs. The change came when a parent saw a post on this site about a possible candidate he thought had interviewed. That coach's current employer was informed of it, and called the coach in to discuss it. A coach should NEVER be put in that position because f what is posted on the site. Again, keep in mind the vast majority of coaches are getting paid pennies per hour for the work they do. There are coaches' families to consider in these spots as well. 

Other rumors about coaches can create problems as well. I would suggest people look up terms like libel and slander. Again, if there is a news story, a public statement from the coach or district about a topic, post away. 

Perfect example of this is the story about Hammond Morton. No rumors, and it included a link to the story. 

But the one that was posted that prompted me posting this was a BIG deal. Not sure how it plays out when the dust settles, but it is important for a story of that magnitude to wait for confirmed sources. 

Typically, if your post starts with " I heard...." think about it before hitting submit. 

 

Hopefully that clarifies things even for those who have read the first post here and wondered what was up. In many cases, like the one that led to me posting the reminder is hidden or deleted before many have seen it. 

As always, if you have a question feel free to send a message. Now, if you feel so strongly that these standards are wrong, you can let us know that as well, and we can work through a solution, agree to disagree, or take other needed/warranted steps. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Irishman said:

I really do not see why a new conference discussion would not be allowed.

Here was my follow up on the topic to clarify a couple things in detail. 

 

Just felt since there was no source to the “rumor” it wouldn’t be allowed like 

the Morton thread before sources became available 

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On 3/13/2023 at 9:18 PM, MacAttack53 said:

Does the TRC look to add one? I would think so. Some fits:

Cass? Pioneer? Winamac? Caston?

I think Cass is definitely the most attractive, followed by Pioneer. 

With the uncertainty of the the Metro of Wabash situation it wouldn't make sense to add one at this time.  We can play a full conference schedule and have one non conference opponent now.  

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On 3/13/2023 at 11:59 AM, US31 said:

It wasn't a good thing for those schools, and in my opinion has been a reason for the decline of Penn in a lot of sports.

I'd be curious to know which other sports have declined outside of football's apparent backslide in recent years.

While I've argued for a long time that the NIC has a had a negative effect on Penn's (the same will be true for Elkhart) football program because of the size of the other schools, the two-division format was at least an improvement since it allowed for fewer conference games than under the old regime. Specifically, it allowed Penn to avoid playing all four of the South Bend schools at the cost of playing Marian and St. Joe every year. For Penn and Elkhart, the collapse of the current format all but guarantees returning to a six or seven game conference schedule, reducing opportunities to schedule similar sized schools/peer programs, and, in some years, requiring the use of an out of conference game to schedule each other. 

I suppose if we're ever going to see Penn make a move to get out of its long-standing relationship with the NIC it would be in the near future.

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37 minutes ago, PDB26 said:

I'd be curious to know which other sports have declined outside of football's apparent backslide in recent years.

While I've argued for a long time that the NIC has a had a negative effect on Penn's (the same will be true for Elkhart) football program because of the size of the other schools, the two-division format was at least an improvement since it allowed for fewer conference games than under the old regime. Specifically, it allowed Penn to avoid playing all four of the South Bend schools at the cost of playing Marian and St. Joe every year. For Penn and Elkhart, the collapse of the current format all but guarantees returning to a six or seven game conference schedule, reducing opportunities to schedule similar sized schools/peer programs, and, in some years, requiring the use of an out of conference game to schedule each other. 

I suppose if we're ever going to see Penn make a move to get out of its long-standing relationship with the NIC it would be in the near future.

I can't imagine Penn agreeing to a conference with 4 SB schools again, but what about 3 if that's the direction SB goes? Or two?

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On 3/14/2023 at 10:55 AM, FarmerFran said:

Has there been any mention when the conference will officially start? curious to see when schedules start getting obliterated.

My guess is 2 or 3 years. 

25 minutes ago, SBFootball1 said:

I can't imagine Penn agreeing to a conference with 4 SB schools again, but what about 3 if that's the direction SB goes? Or two?

South Bend is eating options. Plan looking at closing 1 not 2. Specifically said they won’t close 2. 

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That's a solid 6 team conference right there. Rochester seems like a logical choice to go after and Fairfield would be a nice add to round it out.

 

Its unfortunate that South Bend schools have become such an albatross for the NIC. They sit smack dab in the middle of the NIC/NLC footprint so geography makes more than perfect sense. And their make up fits the NIC; Urban schools in that 800-2000 student range. But their gate money and products on the fields just are complete disasters and they come as a package deal where there is currently a HUGE difference between Adams and Clay. "IF" the SB schools were back to being solid I'd love to see a shake up of the Michiana conferences that looks something like:

NIC: Penn, Warsaw, Goshen, Elkhart, Mishawaka, Adams, Riley, Washington

NLC:  Plymouth, Northridge, Concord, New Prairie, Marian, St. Joe, Northwood, CMA.

New Conference: Bremen, Jimtown, Glenn, Knox, Laville, Tippy Valley, Rochester, Wawasee

 

 

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14 hours ago, npcougar15 said:

I'd love to see a shake up of the Michiana conferences that looks something like:

NIC: Penn, Warsaw, Goshen, Elkhart, Mishawaka, Adams, Riley, Washington

NLC:  Plymouth, Northridge, Concord, New Prairie, Marian, St. Joe, Northwood, CMA.

New Conference: Bremen, Jimtown, Glenn, Knox, Laville, Tippy Valley, Rochester, Wawasee

 

 

Overall I like those, however….

I still say this doesn’t help Penn (and to a lesser degree Elkhart) rise to where they should be.  Penn is the albatross in all of this. They really don’t fit with more than two or three of these schools (Elkhart, Warsaw, maybe Mishawaka but I may be saying that more out of tradition).   

Penn is a day late and a dollar short driving the creation of a Northern Indiana Version of MIC/HCC. The schools in Northern Indiana are rather used to very short travel distances…unlike what many of us are used to in Indy Metro Conferences (that sometimes have  included schools from TH, Laf, etc)

The best situation for Penn would have been to try and join/create primarily 5A/6A conference that includes either region schools, FTW schools, or both.  I don’t know how realistic that is now.  

Penn folks can tell me I’m wrong (and they may be right), but I look at Penn and see an HCC style school with no one to compete against.  Kudos to them for trying to improve their football schedule, but across the board their athletic success has suffered from a lack of near peer opponents.

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21 hours ago, npcougar15 said:

NIC: Penn, Warsaw, Goshen, Elkhart, Mishawaka, Adams, Riley, Washington

NLC:  Plymouth, Northridge, Concord, New Prairie, Marian, St. Joe, Northwood, CMA.

New Conference: Bremen, Jimtown, Glenn, Knox, Laville, Tippy Valley, Rochester, Wawasee

 

 

I like this idea better. 

NIC: Penn, Elkhart, Warsaw, Goshen, Concord, New Prairie, Mishawaka Northwood, 

NLC: Plymouth, Adams, Riley, Washington, Clay, Wawasee, Marian, St. Joe

New Conference: Bremen, Jimtown, Knox,Glenn, LaVille, Valley, Rochester 

To me this makes more sense. NIC gets a decent mixture of competition, NLC gets weaker, but still gets decent matchups and good competition, and the new conference gets solid matchups and competition and pretty equal competition across the board. 

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8 hours ago, US31 said:

I’m wrong

about 

8 hours ago, US31 said:

across the board their athletic success has suffered from a lack of near peer opponents.

But you do have it right with regard to football.

40 minutes ago, Trojan67 said:

NIC: Penn, Elkhart, Warsaw, Goshen, Concord, New Prairie, Mishawaka Northwood, 

That would be the best the NIC has been in football in...maybe forever; still I think @US31 has it right in that Penn (Elkhart also) is going to need a different arrangement if the goal is making runs in the tournament again.

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