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New Northern Indiana league is coming


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1 hour ago, PDB26 said:

That would be the best the NIC has been in football in...maybe forever; still I think @US31 has it right in that Penn (Elkhart also) is going to need a different arrangement if the goal is making runs in the tournament again.

Definitely agree. You either need to stack the NIC with formidable opponents or they need to become independent. 

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4 hours ago, Trojan67 said:

I like this idea better. 

NIC: Penn, Elkhart, Warsaw, Goshen, Concord, New Prairie, Mishawaka Northwood, 

NLC: Plymouth, Adams, Riley, Washington, Clay, Wawasee, Marian, St. Joe

New Conference: Bremen, Jimtown, Knox,Glenn, LaVille, Valley, Rochester 

I know this is a football message board and football typically is the most important sport when it comes to realignment. But there are many other factors that go into this both on and off the field. I like conferences with long standing history/rivalries and that's how it should be, we shouldn't be "realigning" every 5 years or so based on the peaks and valleys of athletic performances; you have to find the mean. You achieve that by getting like sized, minded, talented schools with a similar culture, and while every conference has "doormats" and "perennial contenders" it's about finding the best balance in multiple facets and going with it. In this area you have a few wrenches:

Penn - They just dominate everyone and nobody can match them yearly across the board in multiple sports. 

South Bend Schools - Not only are they not collectively pulling their weight. But they come as a package deal. Adams at 2000+ fits with the big boys but Washington and Clay...

CMA - They fit the current NLC mold perfectly for on field performance/size. But being a prestigious military school do they even want to get involved in a conference?

In my mind these schools just fit the best together:

New NIC: Elkhart, Penn, Warsaw, Mishawaka, Goshen.  - Biggest schools in the area, solid athletically across the board, all come from the biggest population bases that make up Michiana.

New NLC: New Prairie, St. Joe, Marian, Northwood, Concord, Northridge, Plymouth. - Community based schools that would all be extremely competitive in all sports with each other (ya ya Plymouth football). All relatively the same size and mirror each other in a lot of ways. (Concord and Mishawaka could be switched, or one moved to the other completely and it would still make sense.)

Then you have South Bend schools that come as a package deal. They don't really fit the NLC mold and would naturally go to the NIC. I know it's not perfect but they really would be a tough hurdle to clear to form some solid conferences. Maybe going to 3 high schools could change that.

 

Anyways. The new conference (if it is forming) looks extremely solid and has potential to be around a long time. Hopefully it happens as it looks to make perfect sense.

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On 3/13/2023 at 11:21 AM, MarshallCounty said:

Glenn

Bremen

Jimtown

LaVille

Knox

Tippy Valley

 

They want 2 more teams, if not they will run with 6. From my sources it is done, just not announced. If this is false, I will fall on the sword and take the tar and feathering.

This makes all kinds of sense, at least from the 3 leaving the NIC.  Less familiar with the situations of the other 3.  

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On 3/17/2023 at 12:58 PM, SBFootball1 said:

I can't imagine Penn agreeing to a conference with 4 SB schools again, but what about 3 if that's the direction SB goes? Or two?

Or maybe Penn could form the Hated Independents Conference (HIC--love it) with Carmel, Cathedral, and Center Gove...

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Now see MArshallCounty our mutual Bremen friend texted me several weeks ago saying that Bremen was leaving the NIC and since he has very good connections with the school board and high school I believed him. He told me, “it’s going to be a long drive down to Pioneer” when I asked where they’d be going. So I believe 100% things in the NIC are getting shaken up. But I don’t know if this new league is happening though.

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And let’s be real, it hasn’t been the little schools that’s caused Penn to decline, it’s been the decline of South Bend athletics. Penn doesn’t even play the smaller schools in football and basketball seems to be doing fine. New Prarie is a decent opponent from the old NSC so I don’t see how the likes of Bremen, jimtown and Glenn are holding Penn back.

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Penn and Elkhart needed to either convince the Duneland schools to take them and expand the conference or put together something new with Homestead, Carroll, and maybe Warsaw.  The time to do it would have been with the Elkhart consolidation, but it’s probably too late now.

Edited by HoopsCoach
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10 hours ago, HoopsCoach said:

Penn and Elkhart needed to either convince the Duneland schools to take them and expand the conference or put together something new with Homestead, Carroll, and maybe Warsaw.  The time to do it would have been with the Elkhart consolidation, but it’s probably too late now.

Can't agree with this more.

I would argue there may be some hay to be made with the following:

  • Penn
  • Elkhart
  • Warsaw
  • StJ
  • Mish Mar
  • (FW Carroll)
  • (Homestead)

Warsaw becomes a LOT more interested if you can pull Homestead & Carroll.  Which would bring you to a decent 7 team conference.  Longest commute is about 90 minutes.  Which is long, but on par for the "long drives" in many other conferences.

I think the new league in the OP along with something like this would be a much better fit for all these schools.  I like it so much I'm going to trademark this the Highway 30's conference (H3C), since there would be a lot of driving on 31, 30, & 33 🤪

At 7 schools you still have room to add a New Prarie or similar, Penn can still play Indy & out of state powers, Warsaw gets a bigger stage to play on instead of just being the big fish in the NLC pond, StJ and MM get to rattle horns with some bigger schools and maybe make some noise to attract some Catholics that maybe were thinking about heading west..

Just my 2 cents and likely worth as much. 

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Penn, Elkhart, Warsaw, Homestead, Carroll, Mishawaka, Goshen, Concord seems like a lot more viable conference than the one above.

New Prairie will NEVER be in a conference with Warsaw or Fort Wayne schools; that's over 2 hours away. And I don't see why a schools like St. Joe or Marian or anybody under 1,000 enrollment would want to be in that conference. 

How likely is Carroll and Homestead able to make their way out of the Fort Wayne bubble?

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I hadn’t really thought how much the small schools kind of have Penn’s balls in a vice here. Say what you want about the small schools in the NIC but them leaving will cause Penn to make a decision. They can’t go back to the old NIC again. Riley, Washington and Clay have been getting beaten regularly in football by the small division.  Those will be games that are over at the end of the 1st quarter for the Kingsmen.  They can go and schedule a bunch of out of state matchups to beef up the schedule all they want to but when you have those games in the middle of the year how much does it really matter? 

Edited by PantherPride
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2 hours ago, npcougar15 said:

Penn, Elkhart, Warsaw, Homestead, Carroll, Mishawaka, Goshen, Concord seems like a lot more viable conference than the one above.

New Prairie will NEVER be in a conference with Warsaw or Fort Wayne schools; that's over 2 hours away. And I don't see why a schools like St. Joe or Marian or anybody under 1,000 enrollment would want to be in that conference. 

How likely is Carroll and Homestead able to make their way out of the Fort Wayne bubble?

No argument from me....just saying that a 7 team conference would allow room to add schools.  NP from a competitive perspective would be a fit...but agree on the drive time. 

I don't see Goshen moving from NLC...they struggle to be competitive in much in that league, and are shrinking (they just closed an Elementary).  I don't see them jumping to an almost all 5A/6A schedule. 

I could see Concord and Mishawaka deciding to leave the NLC...it seems like the cavies just got there so not sure how much they'd want change again.

I'll leave it to others to start the debate about whether the two P/P schools need to worry to much about "enrollment"...lol.

I agree with PantherPride though that IF these schools leave the NIC, it puts Penn in a pickle.  I think Penn tries to peel off the best of whats around in the 5A & 6A schools

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I don’t see Mishawaka leaving the NLC, they seem to be happy there. Would NLC be open to Penn, Elkhart, St. Joe, Marian joining the NLC and splitting into the Big and Small Divisions. 
 

Big-

Penn

Warsaw

Elkhart

Mishawaka

Concord

Northridge

Small-

Northwood

Marian

St. Joe

Wawasee

Goshen

Plymouth

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I can’t see Mishawaka leaving the NLC as long as Huppert is the AD. He’s an old Bremen guy from their days in the NLC and was in charge when they made the switch. Why would he go back? Plus from a competitive angle it’s a good fit for them AND they get a great gate from schools like Warsaw, Northwood, Concord and Northridge. Mishawaka is in a great spot and would be crazy to leave. Concord I don’t know, but even there what’s the incentive to leave a good situation? 
 

And I’ve reached out to some people I know in Bremen over the past day and from everything I’ve heard this is 100% happening and they’re just waiting to announce when the 2 other schools make their decision. I would expect a spring decision and this coming school year to be the final for the current NIC. 

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Not sure why St. Joe or Marian would want to join a conference of 6A schools either.  

I think Mishawaka is a good fit in the NLC.  Don't see them leaving for anything else at this point.

I like a conference of Penn, Elkhart, Warsaw, Homestead, and Carroll.  I just can't find any other schools that make sense to pair with them.  

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3 hours ago, MarshallCounty said:

I don’t see Mishawaka leaving the NLC, they seem to be happy there. Would NLC be open to Penn, Elkhart, St. Joe, Marian joining the NLC and splitting into the Big and Small Divisions. 
....

This isn't the worst idea in the world.  I don't see this having a high chance of occuring, but it could work. 

I'd flip Goshen & Northridge though based on enrollement.  Most of these teams play non-con.  Several have played in football over the years.

I could talk myself into this....just think its not a high chance of happening.

 

Edited by US31
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Radical idea all the big time schools from nwi to fw make a big school conference with pods like the projected big ten with usc ucla

Pod 1

lake central merrillville crown point portage

pod 2 

valpo mc Laporte chesterton

pod 3

penn Mishawaka Elkhart goshen?

pod 4

carroll homestead dwenger Warsaw?

 

This opens up lots of scheduling flexibility 

but as other has alluded too football isn’t the only deciding factor when making conferences 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, XStar said:

Not sure why St. Joe or Marian would want to join a conference of 6A schools either.  

I think Mishawaka is a good fit in the NLC.  Don't see them leaving for anything else at this point.

I like a conference of Penn, Elkhart, Warsaw, Homestead, and Carroll.  I just can't find any other schools that make sense to pair with them.  

New Conference: Penn, Elkhart, Warsaw, Homestead, Carroll, FW Snider, FW Northrop.  6 conference games, leaving 3 open weeks for non-conference games to maintain existing rivalries and play against opponents that fit the competitive level of each team (or cherry pick an easy win).

NLC: Concord, Goshen, Mishawaka, New Prairie, Northridge, NorthWood, Plymouth, Wawasee.

Summit Athletic - Public Division: SB Adams, SB Riley, SB Washington, FW North, FW South, FW Wayne

Summit Athletic - Private Division: SB St. Joseph, Mishawaka Marian, FW Bishop Dwenger, FW Bishop Luers, FW Concordia, FW Blackhawk Christian (this is a stretch, but they will become competitive quickly).

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8 hours ago, HoopsCoach said:

I meant to say Culver Academies as the 6th school in the private school division, with Blackhawk Christian as an alternative option.

CMA will not be joining a conference anytime soon unless they decide to join the new conference. I think they like having the flexibility in their schedule as an independent. People keep bringing it up, but it the only thing realistic is the new conference. 

 

As far as your other post about the conferences with the Fort Wayne schools, good luck on trying to convince SB Schools to drive 90 miles both ways. I can see them maybe exploring region teams, but Fort Wayne is super unrealistic. 

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So if the NIC loses the small schools (which I don't blame them for moving on) then the NIC looks like:

Penn, Elkhart, Adams, Washington, Riley, New Prairie, Clay, Marian, St. Joe. 

Clay sounds like they are closing. Which would leave the NIC at 8. Not a bad number, but it you have 3 distinct pods of like minded schools.

- Penn & Elkhart - Giant public schools

- NP, Marian, St. Joe - Medium sized schools with pretty solid athletics across the board - NP is the only public

- Riley, Adams, Washington - South Bend fiasco. 

That just looks like it's waiting to break apart after a few years. Mishawaka fits the profile for NIC and NLC perfectly but they have it better in the currently NLC so that's where they are staying. I honestly can't imagine the NLC wanting either Penn or Elkhart unless some of the smaller schools leave (Plymouth, Wawasee, Northridge, Northwood). Penn and Elkhart seem like a package deal at this point unless the Kingsmen do something drastic. 

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21 hours ago, MarshallCounty said:

Nahh, Goshen football is struggling.

 

Regardless....you labeled the divisions by size.  Goshen is quite a bit larger than NR.  And this is a not a football only conference.  They should be swapped if your gonna go with "Bigs" & "Littles".  Now when enought Goshen people move to NR, Fairfield, and NW that it changes...you can swap them.  

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On 3/20/2023 at 9:03 PM, HoopsCoach said:

Penn and Elkhart needed to either convince the Duneland schools to take them and expand the conference or put together something new with Homestead, Carroll, and maybe Warsaw.  The time to do it would have been with the Elkhart consolidation, but it’s probably too late now.

In a weird way, I would like to see a Northern Indiana mega-conference: Lake to Allen County.

Match-ups I'd love to see: Crown Point-Homestead, Penn-Carroll, and Valparaiso-Elkhart.  Many more I'm sure...

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2 hours ago, US31 said:

Regardless....you labeled the divisions by size.  Goshen is quite a bit larger than NR.  And this is a not a football only conference.  They should be swapped if your gonna go with "Bigs" & "Littles".  Now when enought Goshen people move to NR, Fairfield, and NW that it changes...you can swap them.  

True. Divisions would only be for football for scheduling purposes. Kind of how the NIC is split with thier divisions. Doesn't follow enrollment entirely.

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If we're playing Mr. Potato-head with these conferences, here's how I'd align them today if there were no existing conferences to deal with.

Penn, Elkhart, Mishawaka, Warsaw, Carroll, Homestead, Snider, Concord

Jimtown, Northwood, Northridge, Plymouth, John Glenn, Goshen, Wawasee, Bremen

Riley, Washington, Adams, Marian, St. Joe, New Prairie, Clay(until they're closed)

This would house all the NIC and NLC teams in a better arrangement than they're currently in with probably the exceptions of Marian and St. Joe.  Also I'm not sure if this is better for Carroll and Homestead than the Summit but it does cut down the Summit to a more manageable 8 teams.  

Anyway you slice it, it looks like trying to solve the Penn/NIC problem creates more problems elsewhere.  Probably the best solution is just to let them go independent.  

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