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Fixed classes and rolling success factor in basketball


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10 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

You don't know how it would work but it's the logical answer. Got it.

I know exactly how the promotion/relegation mechanic works.  Read the wikipedia entry on the process, plus do some of your own research for once.

 

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1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

I know exactly how the promotion/relegation mechanic works.  Read the wikipedia entry on the process, plus do some of your own research for once.

 

I don't think you can convince anyone it's the logical answer if you don't have proposed details on its implementation. 

I'll stick by my assertion that it's a nice catchphrase with no practical application for Indiana high school football.

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1 hour ago, gonzoron said:

I don't think you can convince anyone it's the logical answer if you don't have proposed details on its implementation. 

I'll stick by my assertion that it's a nice catchphrase with no practical application for Indiana high school football.

Like I said before, I'll leave the detailed implementation proposals up to the brainiac's like foxbat and yourself.  Unless you think the current system, which is still overwhelmingly based primarily on enrollment, is the perfect solution.

 

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2 hours ago, Muda69 said:

Like I said before, I'll leave the detailed implementation proposals up to the brainiac's like foxbat and yourself.  Unless you think the current system, which is still overwhelmingly based primarily on enrollment, is the perfect solution.

 

I think the perfect solution would be to return to the previous system. Play 10 games per season and you're done. Possibly could even increase that to 12 games since there would be no playoffs and scrimmages/jamborees could be eliminated. 

 

Edited by gonzoron
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1 hour ago, gonzoron said:

I think the perfect solution would be to return to the previous system. Play 10 games per season and you're done. Possibly could even increase that to 12 games since there would be no playoffs and scrimmages/jamborees could be eliminated. 

 

And the IHSAA operations will be funded by charitable donations. 😂😅🤣

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23 minutes ago, Bobref said:

And the IHSAA operations will be funded by charitable donations. 😂😅🤣

What funded them from 1903-1972? So you're saying this isn't just about the children?

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13 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

What funded them from 1903-1972? So you're saying this isn't just about the children?

Not interested in hijacking the thread by turning it into a debate about the motivations involved in organized education-based athletics.

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34 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Not interested in hijacking the thread by turning it into a debate about the motivations involved in organized education-based athletics.

 

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

And the IHSAA operations will be funded by charitable donations. 😂😅🤣

Yet here you are, lol.

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On 3/23/2023 at 10:37 AM, Muda69 said:

From the article:

For basketball the answer is one.  History has proven it.

 

 

Do you mean successful in the sense that the attendance is better...or there is parody in who wins...asking for a friend!

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22 minutes ago, NorthKnox94 said:

Do you mean successful in the sense that the attendance is better...or there is parody in who wins...asking for a friend!

I think you mean "parity".  "Parody" has a completely different meaning.  🙂

But to answer your questions,  yes, to both.

 

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On 3/24/2023 at 10:24 AM, foxbat said:

I find it interesting that folks are highlighting p/p schools as something that this would impact most.  Realize that WeBo won three consecutive 2A titles in 2018-2020.  Of interest is that Luers, who WeBo beat in their third-straight appearance, said nary a word about the supposed "injustice," but I do recall a few public school posters giving WeBo a hard time about that. 

Also, Pioneer had three visits in a row to LOS in 2016-2018 in 1A and actually had four visits in five years 2014-2018.  In contrast, Scecina had only two visits in 2011-2012, lost both, and got bumped to 2A ... the only team, in the history of SF, to get bumped without getting a blue ring in the process. 

While Lutheran and Mater Dei COULD indeed join the club, the programs that have ACTUALLY benefited from the set periods re-evals are public programs.

Nothing to see here...:)

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On 3/26/2023 at 12:36 PM, Muda69 said:

A true system of promotion and relegation is the logical answer to all this rhetoric.

 

You can't be true to a system that picks its players.  It's just a rehash of the success factor from top to bottom.

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On 3/27/2023 at 10:32 AM, Muda69 said:

I know exactly how the promotion/relegation mechanic works.  Read the wikipedia entry on the process, plus do some of your own research for once.

 

The promotion/relegation thing is interesting.  It works in english soccer for example because of a desire by players to be in the top league, but let's face it...its driven by $$.  The higher the league for a team, the more $$ alotted to them.  That in turn gives them better players, facilities, etc.  

That doesn't play out with Indiana high school sports....more funds won't be alotted for an upper league (no motivation there) and I contend many teams would be more than content to "play down" if that increases their odds for trophies.  They certainly won't get less funding for "staying down". 

Don't really see promotion/relegation apples to apples for professional vs. amatuer (in this case high school) sports.

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16 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

The promotion/relegation thing is interesting.  It works in english soccer for example because of a desire by players to be in the top league, but let's face it...its driven by $$.  The higher the league for a team, the more $$ alotted to them.  That in turn gives them better players, facilities, etc.  

That doesn't play out with Indiana high school sports....more funds won't be alotted for an upper league (no motivation there) and I contend many teams would be more than content to "play down" if that increases their odds for trophies.  They certainly won't get less funding for "staying down". 

Don't really see promotion/relegation apples to apples for professional vs. amatuer (in this case high school) sports.

Why does there have to be a money factor involved for the mechanics of promotion/relegation to work?  You classify teams not by their enrollment but entirely on their success/failure as a program over a determined amount of time. 

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  • 1 month later...

IHSAA tables the proposal:  https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/high-school/2023/05/01/ihsaa-board-of-directors-tables-proposal-on-how-to-classify-four-class-sports/70172596007/

Quote

The decision to change how high school teams are classified in the four-class sports of basketball, baseball, softball and volleyball is … still to be decided.

The Indiana High School Athletic Association voted at its annual board of directors meeting Monday to table the vote on the four-class proposal until the June 22 executive committee meeting. The proposal would classify teams in those sports by set enrollment numbers instead of the current system of dividing the four classes evenly.

The Indiana Interscholastic Athletic Administrators Association and the IHSAA submitted a joint proposal after the IIAAA had previously discussed adding a fifth class in the four-class sports due to a widening gap between the largest schools in 4A and the smallest (in the most-recent enrollment cycle there were 13 schools with an enrollment of 3,200 students and larger in 4A and 36 with a number less than 1,500).

The proposal would classify 4A as schools with an enrollment of 1,400 and more, 3A from 600-1,399, 2A from 325-599 and Class A as 324 and lower.

Fixed enrollments would keep teams in the same class for those four-class sports, which appealed to those involved in the proposal, IHSAA commissioner Paul Neidig said last month. The increase in charter schools and private schools coming into the IHSAA in recent years in smaller classes pushed other schools into larger classes despite not necessarily increasing in enrollment.

The board voted to table the proposal after a lengthy discussion. Two other proposals regarding the tournament success factor were also tabled as they were affected by the tabling of the four-class proposal. In all 12 proposals were approved, three failed to receive enough support and several others were tabled.

Among the highlights:

*The board unanimously approved of reducing the number of schools participating in an emerging sport (currently boys volleyball and girls wrestling) from 150 to 100 before that sport would become officially sponsored. The minimum of 40 schools per district was also struck from the rule.

*The proposal that required schools to notify the IHSAA of their intention to play up one or more classes for the next reclassification cycle with a deadline of September 1 was approved 18-0.

*An amendment that reduces the number of practices required after missing consecutive days was approved 18-0. Students missing 8-14 consecutive days will now need two practices (previously four) while those missing more than 14 consecutive days will now need three practices (previously six).

*Clarifying language to rule that high school students with a provisional officiating license may officiate any contests other than those at the high school level (grades 9-12) was approved 18-0.

*Two proposals that would reduce the maximum number of games that a baseball team and softball team may play both failed to receive any support.

 

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On 3/31/2023 at 8:19 AM, Muda69 said:

Why does there have to be a money factor involved for the mechanics of promotion/relegation to work?  You classify teams not by their enrollment but entirely on their success/failure as a program over a determined amount of time. 

success factor

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