Fixing the Central Indiana High School Athletic Conferences

[Indiana Fan]

I have just been designated to fix the conference realignment issue in central Indiana. By the way of breakfast and a round of golf with all AD’s and principals of the schools, everyone is on board and there are no more hard feelings. Conferences are now set based on enrollments, location, and competitiveness in not only football, but in all sports. Here we go!

HCC: Carmel, HSE, Fishers, Noblesville, North Central, Westfield, Zionsville.

With the departure of Avon, Brownsburg, and FC, HCC adds Carmel and North central. It becomes the true Northside conference of Indy. HCC also becomes the best conference in the state in all sports

MIC: Avon, Brownsburg, Ben Davis, Lawrence Central, Lawrence North, Pike, Warren Central.

The “new” MIC adds Avon and Brownsburg. This conference is able to keep many of the same great rivalries that have always been there. Plus the great rivalry of the 2 suburbs on the west side.

Southside Conference: Center Grove, Columbus North, Decatur Central, Franklin Central, Perry Meridian, Southport.

With Conference Indiana folding, the Southside conference is created by CG. They take some of the CI schools and mid state schools to form with the addition of FC as well. A true Southside conference bringing back old rivalries and close travels. CG will start off being way ahead on the gridiron, but give it some times and FC and Columbus with figure out competition in helping them for the future. Decatur will rise as well, as their enrollment is almost at 6A level. 
 

Mid-State: Bloomington North, Bloomington South, Franklin Community, Greenwood, Martinsville, Mooresville, Plainfield, Whiteland.

With Perry and Decatur going back to their traditional roots, the Bloomingtons slot in nicely to the ultra competitive mid state conference. Very similar sizes of schools all coming from nice communities who back athletics. With Whiteland growing, look for them to potentially reach out to the Southside conference down the road.

 

3 out of 4 of these conferences are under 8 schools. This is perfect from a football standpoint in allowing availability for non conference matchups. It’s too bad something like this couldn’t be developed in the future. What are your thoughts? Where did I go wrong? What changes could be made? Are there other schools that could fit? Only 5 more months until football season!!!

[Staxawax]

Looks good but I still think CG and Carmel would dominate their conferences.

If you go with this I'd combine Southside and Mid-State into one.... South Central?  Move one in the Mid-State to the Sluthside and have 2 7-team divisions.

[Bash Riprock]

22 minutes ago, Staxawax said:

Looks good but I still think CG and Carmel would dominate their conferences.

If you go with this I'd combine Southside and Mid-State into one.... South Central?  Move one in the Mid-State to the Sluthside and have 2 7-team divisions.

both IN Fan and your thoughts are very interesting and have merit.  Whiteland also has to be getting close to 6A and they are growing rapidly.  

[Indiana Fan]

42 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

both IN Fan and your thoughts are very interesting and have merit.  Whiteland also has to be getting close to 6A and they are growing rapidly.  

I believe Whiteland could go to either. New Pal is another school where if Whiteland went into the Southside, then New Pal could join Mid State. Or vise versa.

[HoopsCoach]

9 hours ago, Indiana Fan said:

3 out of 4 of these conferences are under 8 schools. This is perfect from a football standpoint in allowing availability for non conference matchups. It’s too bad something like this couldn’t be developed in the future. What are your thoughts? Where did I go wrong? What changes could be made? Are there other schools that could fit? Only 5 more months until football season!!!

AD’s love 8 team conferences because they only have to work to schedule 2 non-conference games, which is enough games to satisfy coaches that want a little control over their schedule.  7 teams is not ideal but could be worse, and anything less than 7 seems to create frustration for both AD’s and coaches.  That being said, I think 6 team conferences are perfect.  5 conference games plus 4 non conference.  One should be a game your team expect to win, 1 should be a game you should expect to lose unless you play incredibly well, and 2 should be “toss ups” that could go either way and prepare you for the state tournament.

Looking at the Indy area, 6 team conferences for the 6A/large 5A schools could be split pretty close to what you’ve suggested.  My choices would be  Carmel, Fishers, Hamilton Southeastern, Noblesville, Westfield, and Zionsville in the Hoosier Crossroads North.  Then the Hoosier Crossroads South becomes Avon, Brownsburg, Center Grove, Columbus North, Franklin Central, and Southport.  The MIC goes with the 6 remaining members - Ben Davis, Lawrence Central, Lawrence North, North Central, Pike, and Warren Central.

If Carmel and Center Grove can figure out a way to be adults again, these 3 conferences can help each other by playing 2 crossover games.  Each school would play 1 opponent from the other 2 conferences. That leaves open 2 games to play out-of-state opponents, Cathedral, Penn, FW schools, or smaller schools in the Indy area if they prefer.

The Mid-State has been a solid, competitive conference, but if we are throwing out their happiness, it could also become separate conferences of 6 teams.  Throw in some of the Hoosier Heritage and it could look a little like the 6A conferences I previously mentioned.

Mid-State West could be Bloomington North, Bloomington South, Martinsville, Mooresville, Terre Haute North, and Terre Haute South.  Then the Mid-State East is Decatur Central, Franklin, Greenwood, Perry Meridian, Plainfield, and Whiteland.  The Hoosier Heritage then joins the group with Greenfield-Central, Mount Vernon, New Castle, New Palestine, Pendleton Heights, and Shelbyville.  

The HHC waves good-bye to Delta and Yorktown who join a new conference of Anderson, Delta, Marion, Muncie Central, Richmond, and Yorktown.

Edited March 30, 2023 by HoopsCoach

[Grover]

“If Carmel and Center Grove can figure out a way to be adults again”

Point of clarification:  CG isn’t the one that took its ball and went home. 

[temptation]

On 3/29/2023 at 11:01 PM, Grover said:

“If Carmel and Center Grove can figure out a way to be adults again”

Point of clarification:  CG isn’t the one that took its ball and went home. 

It’s funny as time goes on that that is the accepted narrative by the majority.  It’s funny watching current “MIC 6” schools claim conference championships though.  BD boys basketball probably the only legitimate one in all honesty.

As for the OP, I like this a lot.  I do feel like Carmel, Center Grove, and Brownsburg would dominate in this format though.

Edited April 1, 2023 by temptation

[US31]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

As for the OP, I like this a lot.  I do feel like Carmel, Center Grove, and Brownsburg would dominate in this format though.

Not that I think we’d disagree on this, but I’d point out that in the “Big Sports” the HCC has caught up with Carmel.

Would the hounds dominate most of the other sports?? Probably…especially swimming (and tennis?).

But HCC schools seem to be right there with Carmel in Football & Basketball

[Indiana Fan]

7 hours ago, US31 said:

Not that I think we’d disagree on this, but I’d point out that in the “Big Sports” the HCC has caught up with Carmel.

Would the hounds dominate most of the other sports?? Probably…especially swimming (and tennis?).

But HCC schools seem to be right there with Carmel in Football & Basketball

Have heard multiple rumors from both sides. Some saying HCC legitimately wants Carmel in their conference and other schools stating they want nothing to do with them.

 

8 hours ago, temptation said:

It’s funny as time goes on that that is the accepted narrative by the majority.  It’s funny watching current “MIC 6” schools claim conference championships though.  BD boys basketball probably the only legitimate one in all honesty.

As for the OP, I like this a lot.  I do feel like Carmel, Center Grove, and Brownsburg would dominate in this format though.

Still thinking that MIC schools will eventually realize they made a huge mistake. They’ve messed up and eventually will NEED them back. As far as the relationship between Carmel and CG, well you know how I feel.

[temptation]

50 minutes ago, Indiana Fan said:

Have heard multiple rumors from both sides. Some saying HCC legitimately wants Carmel in their conference and other schools stating they want nothing to do with them.

 

Still thinking that MIC schools will eventually realize they made a huge mistake. They’ve messed up and eventually will NEED them back. As far as the relationship between Carmel and CG, well you know how I feel.

2/2

[Bash Riprock]

On 4/1/2023 at 6:35 PM, Indiana Fan said:

Still thinking that MIC schools will eventually realize they made a huge mistake. They’ve messed up and eventually will NEED them back. As far as the relationship between Carmel and CG, well you know how I feel.

would like to think so....but I am not so sure.  Perhaps this is why Carmel is trying to move away from CG........

[Indiana Fan]

4 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

would like to think so....but I am not so sure.  Perhaps this is why Carmel is trying to move away from CG........

I don’t understand

[Ballhawk]

On 4/1/2023 at 11:34 AM, US31 said:

Not that I think we’d disagree on this, but I’d point out that in the “Big Sports” the HCC has caught up with Carmel.

Would the hounds dominate most of the other sports?? Probably…especially swimming (and tennis?).

But HCC schools seem to be right there with Carmel in Football & Basketball

In the HCC, Noblesville won state titles in boys and girls soccer and girls cross country, so Carmel wouldn't necessarily dominate in all country club sports.  HCC teams are also competitive in golf and tennis, and I believe Fishers and HSE were top 5 in swimming (of course no one will dominate Carmel in swimming).

Carmel would be a better fit in the HCC than most seem to think.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Ballhawk

[Muda69]

Soccer is a "country club" sport?   That is news to me.................

 

 

[US31]

1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

Soccer is a "country club" sport?   That is news to me.................

 

 

My understanding of the term....Swimming, Golf & Tennis (aka things commonly done at country club).  Although I know many throw in XC (which I would disagree with).

I know Muda wasn't referring to me...and also why I didn't use the term in my earlier post.  Must be the cultural island of Sheridan that pollutes his opinions (I kid, I kid).🤪

Edited April 11, 2023 by US31
clarify

[Bash Riprock]

2 hours ago, Muda69 said:

Soccer is a "country club" sport?   That is news to me.................

 

 

In a way, it is.  To play competitively at most Indy burbs schools, boys and girls have been most likely playing in both local rec and travel leagues for extended periods as a youth.  Not cheap and requires some extensive travel.  While unfortunate, that isn't an option for everyone.  

Unlike Brazil, there are not soccer fields on both grass and concrete all over inner cities and in rural areas.

[US31]

22 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

In a way, it is.  To play competitively at most Indy burbs schools, boys and girls have been most likely playing in both local rec and travel leagues for extended periods as a youth.  Not cheap and requires some extensive travel.  While unfortunate, that isn't an option for everyone.  

Unlike Brazil, there are not soccer fields on both grass and concrete all over inner cities and in rural areas.

Just based on recent memory....Chesterton, Goshen, Bishop Noll, Argos, Wheeler and Lake Central and a few others would disagree with this assement.

You don't see anywhere near that "diversity" in swimming, golf, tennis

[Bash Riprock]

1 minute ago, US31 said:

Just based on recent memory....Chesterton, Goshen, Bishop Noll, Argos, Wheeler and Lake Central and a few others would disagree with this assement.

You don't see anywhere near that "diversity" in swimming, golf, tennis

I am only going on experience with Indy burb schools....but I am open if you can show many soccer rosters filled with boys and girls that didn't play travel soccer.

[US31]

27 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

I am only going on experience with Indy burb schools....but I am open if you can show many soccer rosters filled with boys and girls that didn't play travel soccer.

No offense taken....non intended either.  Just feel there is more demographic diversity (of all types...F/R, PP vs Public, etc, etc) in soccer at the state level than in the other sports people are referencing.  

But I will meet anyone at the Silver Dollar at dusk if you want to call XC a "country club sport" 😀 (if anyone knows this reference it shows your age)

Edited April 11, 2023 by US31

[Muda69]

1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said:

In a way, it is.  To play competitively at most Indy burbs schools, boys and girls have been most likely playing in both local rec and travel leagues for extended periods as a youth.  Not cheap and requires some extensive travel.  While unfortunate, that isn't an option for everyone.  

Unlike Brazil, there are not soccer fields on both grass and concrete all over inner cities and in rural areas.

So in the Indy burbs schools you can probably add these to the list as well:

Basketball

Softball

Volleyball

 

53 minutes ago, US31 said:

Just based on recent memory....Chesterton, Goshen, Bishop Noll, Argos, Wheeler and Lake Central and a few others would disagree with this assement.

You don't see anywhere near that "diversity" in swimming, golf, tennis

As would Frankfort.

 

[BDGiant93]

On 3/29/2023 at 1:05 PM, Indiana Fan said:

I have just been designated to fix the conference realignment issue in central Indiana. By the way of breakfast and a round of golf with all AD’s and principals of the schools, everyone is on board and there are no more hard feelings. Conferences are now set based on enrollments, location, and competitiveness in not only football, but in all sports. Here we go!

HCC: Carmel, HSE, Fishers, Noblesville, North Central, Westfield, Zionsville.

With the departure of Avon, Brownsburg, and FC, HCC adds Carmel and North central. It becomes the true Northside conference of Indy. HCC also becomes the best conference in the state in all sports

MIC: Avon, Brownsburg, Ben Davis, Lawrence Central, Lawrence North, Pike, Warren Central.

The “new” MIC adds Avon and Brownsburg. This conference is able to keep many of the same great rivalries that have always been there. Plus the great rivalry of the 2 suburbs on the west side.

Southside Conference: Center Grove, Columbus North, Decatur Central, Franklin Central, Perry Meridian, Southport.

With Conference Indiana folding, the Southside conference is created by CG. They take some of the CI schools and mid state schools to form with the addition of FC as well. A true Southside conference bringing back old rivalries and close travels. CG will start off being way ahead on the gridiron, but give it some times and FC and Columbus with figure out competition in helping them for the future. Decatur will rise as well, as their enrollment is almost at 6A level. 
 

Mid-State: Bloomington North, Bloomington South, Franklin Community, Greenwood, Martinsville, Mooresville, Plainfield, Whiteland.

With Perry and Decatur going back to their traditional roots, the Bloomingtons slot in nicely to the ultra competitive mid state conference. Very similar sizes of schools all coming from nice communities who back athletics. With Whiteland growing, look for them to potentially reach out to the Southside conference down the road.

 

3 out of 4 of these conferences are under 8 schools. This is perfect from a football standpoint in allowing availability for non conference matchups. It’s too bad something like this couldn’t be developed in the future. What are your thoughts? Where did I go wrong? What changes could be made? Are there other schools that could fit? Only 5 more months until football season!!!

DT's burner account?

[Indiana Fan]

20 hours ago, BDGiant93 said:

DT's burner account?

No. But I did get a laugh from that lol

[roaringthunderdlr]

Take Plainfield and put us on that Southside conference.

[BDGiant93]

2 hours ago, Indiana Fan said:

No. But I did get a laugh from that lol

I'm glad you took it in the way it was meant.

[Muda69]

From a Q&A article by the Indy's Start High School beat writer, Mr. Neddenriep:

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/high-school/2023/04/19/indiana-mr-basketball-voting-bias-ihsaa-boys-coaching-changes-all-stars-selection/70126970007/

(Note. Story is behind a paywall)

Quote

...

What is going on with high school conference shakeup? Will there be moves?

Yes.

There was a report this weekend on a “new trending of dumping (conference) members” and referenced five members of the Sagamore Conference dumping the remaining three schools — Lebanon, Tri-West and Danville — due to their growth. I spoke with Lebanon athletic director Phil Levine, who said that is incorrect and “nobody is getting booted out.”

Levine sent me this statement:

“Speaking on behalf of Lebanon: It is very sad that people use social media inaccurately for various reasons and disappointing and frustrating to all involved. The Sagamore Conference has a long standing tradition with 8 outstanding schools who work extremely well together and have a tremendous amount of respect for each other. If any changes were to occur within the conference it would take place in a professional and appropriate manner, following the guidelines and procedures outlined in the Sagamore Athletic Handbook, and with an agreement upon all the schools and individuals involved. The story was inaccurate and not only unfair to the Sagamore Conference Schools but several schools outside of the conference. I anticipate if any changes were to take place with the Sagamore Conference, the process, explanation and truth would be announced when and if this officially occurs.”

That does not necessarily mean there will not be changes in the future within the Sagamore Conference. This has been something discussed for years, only because of the growth of the more metropolitan Indianapolis-area schools of Lebanon, Tri-West and Danville compared to Crawfordsville, Frankfort, North Montgomery, Southmont and Western Boone. I would expect we would know more on this situation next month, though even if there are changes, there is still a two-year window where the conference would stay intact unless all eight members agree.

But obviously there are other changes, too. Earlier this month, the North Central Conference voted Harrison and McCutcheon out of the league, citing geography, competitive balance and enrollment.

“We had hoped other conference member schools would have voted differently, so while the result is disheartening, our future efforts will now turn towards reviewing and evaluating conference affiliation that will best meet the needs of our student athletes and school communities,” principals and athletic directors at McCutcheon and Harrison said in a joint statement to the Journal & Courier.

Competitive balance and enrollment will continue to drive these changes in the future. I expect we will see a lot of shuffling and jumping around in the coming decade.

Just polite lip service by the Lebanon A.D.?