Jimtown, Glenn, Bremen leaving NIC for 24-25 seasons.

[Ballhawk]

On 4/4/2023 at 7:48 AM, FarmerFran said:

Calling Pioneer average in basketball is an insult to the word average... From a football standpoint, I think Pioneer in the Hoosier would be a great fit overall most years, but to Gipper's point we wouldn't be competitive in much else, but maybe track, softball and volleyball.

That was the reason Sheridan left the Hoosier.  They competed well in football, but the other sports suffered to the point of not having athletes go out for the teams.  They had to leave for their overall program's sake.

[Wedgebuster]

People forget that these decisions are made by schools for their overall athletic department, not just one or two programs.  

[MacAttack53]

9 hours ago, Wedgebuster said:

People forget that these decisions are made by schools for their overall athletic department, not just one or two programs.  

Unless you’re Tippy Valley. They made this decision solely on what they believe is best for their football program. It’s high times right now in Death Valley, but only 5-8 years ago, they were stringing together 2-4 win campaigns. They just view themselves (for some reason) as a class above the TRC schools. Valley arrogance.

[Wedgebuster]

16 hours ago, MacAttack53 said:

Unless you’re Tippy Valley. They made this decision solely on what they believe is best for their football program. It’s high times right now in Death Valley, but only 5-8 years ago, they were stringing together 2-4 win campaigns. They just view themselves (for some reason) as a class above the TRC schools. Valley arrogance.

Does the TRC have an All Sports trophy?  Is there a comprehensive record somewhere of where each Valley Team finished in the TRC last year and in the years prior?  Be interesting to see how they compared to the rest of the TRC in all sports.     

Also, I've heard that some of the frustration for the former NIC schools was lower level games being cancelled over and over again by certain other league teams.   I wonder if Valley ran into any of that in the TRC? 

[MacAttack53]

8 minutes ago, Wedgebuster said:

Does the TRC have an All Sports trophy?  Is there a comprehensive record somewhere of where each Valley Team finished in the TRC last year and in the years prior?  Be interesting to see how they compared to the rest of the TRC in all sports.     

Also, I've heard that some of the frustration for the former NIC schools was lower level games being cancelled over and over again by certain other league teams.   I wonder if Valley ran into any of that in the TRC? 

I'll look into your first question, but in regard to your second I think that answer would be a resounding NO. The RRC (the middle level version of the TRC, in which all schools participate) does a really good job in terms of scheduling. There may be a few programs with low numbers...but for the most part teams are fielding full teams in all of the main sports.

[Offintheyard]

On 3/31/2023 at 10:15 AM, 77Jimmie said:

Breaking on WHME Sports.

Jimtown, Glenn and Bremen have sent letters to Northern Indiana Conference asking to leave the league by 2024-25.

Tippy Valley sent a letter to Three Rivers Conference asking the same.

LaVille and Knox have asked to leave the Hoosier North Athletic Conference.

Rumor has it Rochester turned down a request to join, and Fairfield is entertaining the offer.

 

CMA has been having discussions with the new conference schools. I guess CMA wants to join. We will see. I honestly believe they would be a good fit. I know they have had some great seasons in boys basketball as of late but they are coming back down to average. Football had some really good seasons from 2017-2019 but year in and year out, they are not a juggernaut. All other sports would be about even. There is the issue of gate with hosting them. Hopefully that can be worked out. On the plus side, CMA never charges for admission to home games unless hosting IHSAA tourney games. 

[PDB26]

On 4/13/2023 at 10:37 AM, Wedgebuster said:

People forget that these decisions are made by schools for their overall athletic department, not just one or two programs.

But isn't the athletic department typically buoyed by one or two programs?

[Punttheball]

On 4/14/2023 at 5:45 PM, Offintheyard said:

CMA has been having discussions with the new conference schools. I guess CMA wants to join. We will see. I honestly believe they would be a good fit. I know they have had some great seasons in boys basketball as of late but they are coming back down to average. Football had some really good seasons from 2017-2019 but year in and year out, they are not a juggernaut. All other sports would be about even. There is the issue of gate with hosting them. Hopefully that can be worked out. On the plus side, CMA never charges for admission to home games unless hosting IHSAA tourney games. 

This will not align with Valley's mission.  They will not like this move by the new conference.  I am not sure it would be a 6-0 vote.

[Punttheball]

On 4/14/2023 at 1:10 PM, Wedgebuster said:

Does the TRC have an All Sports trophy?  Is there a comprehensive record somewhere of where each Valley Team finished in the TRC last year and in the years prior?  Be interesting to see how they compared to the rest of the TRC in all sports.     

Also, I've heard that some of the frustration for the former NIC schools was lower level games being cancelled over and over again by certain other league teams.   I wonder if Valley ran into any of that in the TRC? 

Valley has only been a school dating back to 1975.  They have a very good overall record.  They won the conference outright in 2021 and tied for it in 2022. From 1998 on it has not been a total domination.  Here are the program numbers since they became Consolidated.

Year Record 1975 3-2 1976 8-2 1977 12-1 1978 11-1 1979 13-0 1980 8-2 1981 10-1 1982 9-1 1983 10-2 1984 4-6 1985 9-2 1986 9-2 1987 9-1 1988 6-4 1989 4-5 1990 3-6 1991 5-5 1992 6-6 1993 9-2 1994 7-2 1995 6-4 1996 5-4 1997 5-6 1998 4-6 1999 6-5 2000 7-3 2001 8-3 2002 5-6 2003 8-3 2004 7-3 2005 7-4 2006 7-3 2007 8-2 2008 3-7 2009 5-5 2010 5-5 2011 6-4 2012 8-3 2013 5-5 2014 1-9 2015 3-7 2016 3-7 2017 2-8 2018 6-5 2019 7-4 2020 7-4 2021 10-1 2022 9-2 318-181

[US31]

On 4/14/2023 at 1:10 PM, Wedgebuster said:

Also, I've heard that some of the frustration for the former NIC schools was lower level games being cancelled over and over again by certain other league teams. 

Recently spoke to a HC at one of the 3 schools mentioned often in this thread.  They were very specific this was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back, and for some was THE primary factor in leaving NIC.

[First_Backer_Inside]

6 hours ago, Punttheball said:

Valley has only been a school dating back to 1975.  They have a very good overall record.  They won the conference outright in 2021 and tied for it in 2022. From 1998 on it has not been a total domination.  Here are the program numbers since they became Consolidated.

Year Record 1975 3-2 1976 8-2 1977 12-1 1978 11-1 1979 13-0 1980 8-2 1981 10-1 1982 9-1 1983 10-2 1984 4-6 1985 9-2 1986 9-2 1987 9-1 1988 6-4 1989 4-5 1990 3-6 1991 5-5 1992 6-6 1993 9-2 1994 7-2 1995 6-4 1996 5-4 1997 5-6 1998 4-6 1999 6-5 2000 7-3 2001 8-3 2002 5-6 2003 8-3 2004 7-3 2005 7-4 2006 7-3 2007 8-2 2008 3-7 2009 5-5 2010 5-5 2011 6-4 2012 8-3 2013 5-5 2014 1-9 2015 3-7 2016 3-7 2017 2-8 2018 6-5 2019 7-4 2020 7-4 2021 10-1 2022 9-2 318-181

A lot of wins. Not a lot of seasons with more than 10 or 11 games played though.

[Offintheyard]

13 hours ago, Punttheball said:

This will not align with Valley's mission.  They will not like this move by the new conference.  I am not sure it would be a 6-0 vote.

That doesn't really make a lot of sense. Why leave the TRC if you aren't wanting to join a conference with tougher opponents? Both schools are in the same class. They have played each other in the regular season in many sports. I don't have a dog in this fight so to each their own I guess. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Offintheyard

[BLACKGOLD2007]

I think it is time for Penn and Elkhart to move on from the NIC.  Elkhart more than likely finds a home in the NLC and Penn either goes independent or Joins the Duneland.  Playing Riley and Washington again does nothing for the schedules of either team.  Washington and Riley do not want to play either school.  Good luck to Jimtown, Glenn and Bremen.  While Penn never saw you on the field it was nice having you all.

I know the NLC would never want this, but if Plymouth left and they kicked Wawasee to the curb, I think a conference of:

Mishawaka, Penn, Elkhart, Northridge, Concord, Northwood and Warsaw would be very fun schedule.

[from_the_sidelines007]

25 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

I think it is time for Penn and Elkhart to move on from the NIC.  Elkhart more than likely finds a home in the NLC and Penn either goes independent or Joins the Duneland.  Playing Riley and Washington again does nothing for the schedules of either team.  Washington and Riley do not want to play either school.  Good luck to Jimtown, Glenn and Bremen.  While Penn never saw you on the field it was nice having you all.

I know the NLC would never want this, but if Plymouth left and they kicked Wawasee to the curb, I think a conference of:

Mishawaka, Penn, Elkhart, Northridge, Concord, Northwood and Warsaw would be very fun schedule.

If Penn and Elkhart do remain in the NIC after Bremen, Glenn and Jimtown moves on and SBCSC does decide to close South Bend Clay, that puts the updated NIC at 8 schools and gives both Penn and Elkhart 2 games to fill with other opponents.  Which is what both teams do now anyway.  Find 2 schools that you want to play as non-conference games and book them.

Using your reference: "Playing Riley and Washington again does nothing for the schedules of either team."  If these games do not do mean anything for either schedules, then if you are Penn, start your first unit, play the game, then play the #2s and #3s and #4s to get those units more game time action and build depth.  We all know that when you play a sport, injuries can happen.  Coach that next kids up to help them be the best they can be.  Give those kids that come to practice everyday some memories that they can take with them for the rest of their life.

Play the two games - against South Bend Washington and South Bend Riley and make something productive out of each of them.

Show some respect to the team you are playing and work on helping both teams better!

This isn't really that hard.

 

as always, the game is better

from_the_sidelines007

 

[US31]

56 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

I know the NLC would never want this, but if Plymouth left and they kicked Wawasee to the curb, I think a conference of:

Mishawaka, Penn, Elkhart, Northridge, Concord, Northwood and Warsaw would be very fun schedule.

Kicking Goshen out too?

[HoopsCoach]

6 hours ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

I think it is time for Penn and Elkhart to move on from the NIC.  Elkhart more than likely finds a home in the NLC and Penn either goes independent or Joins the Duneland.  Playing Riley and Washington again does nothing for the schedules of either team.  Washington and Riley do not want to play either school.  Good luck to Jimtown, Glenn and Bremen.  While Penn never saw you on the field it was nice having you all.

I know the NLC would never want this, but if Plymouth left and they kicked Wawasee to the curb, I think a conference of:

Mishawaka, Penn, Elkhart, Northridge, Concord, Northwood and Warsaw would be very fun schedule.

In my post on the topic of Harrison and McCutcheon being booted from the NCC, I proposed a plan to expand that conference and include a blend of the current members with some slightly smaller schools within the NCC footprint.  I’m applying that same thought to the NIC and NLC, which would be to combine them and split into 2 regions (East and West), each with two divisions (Large and Small).   Something like this, with enrollments from the fall 2022 count day included.

East Region, Large Division (EL):

Elkhart 3302

Goshen 1981

Concord 1775

Northridge 1389

East Region, Small Division (ES):

Plymouth 1076

Northwood 917

Wawasee 906

Mishawaka Marian 698

West Region, Large Division (WL):

Penn 3401

Warsaw 2096

South Bend Adams 1976

Mishawaka 1463

West Region, Small Division (WS):

South Bend Riley 992

South Bend Washington 834

South Bend Saint Joseph 819

New Prairie 978

In football, each school plays the 3 in their division, 2 from the other division of schools their size, and 1 from each of the 2 divisions of schools a different size.  That gives each school 7 conference games.  It also allows them to preserve some long-time rivalries and still play 2 non-conference games against opponents of their choice.  In basketball, each team plays everyone in their region (east/west) and the 4 schools from the opposite side of the conference who play in the same size-based division.  So using Penn as an example, this could be their football schedule, not necessarily in this order.

Valparaiso

Cathedral

Mishawaka (WL 1)

Warsaw (WL 2)

South Bend Adams (WL 3)

Elkhart (EL 1)

Northridge (EL 2)

Northwood (ES)

New Prairie (WS)

Elkhart could then have a schedule like this:

Hammond Morton

Lake Central

Concord (EL 1)

Goshen (EL 2)

Northridge (EL 3)

Penn (WL 1)

Warsaw (WL 2)

Mishawaka Marian (ES)

South Bend St. Joseph (WS)

This is just as unlikely to happen as my suggestion for the NCC.

[Wedgebuster]

It seems like schools and AD's get really weird about not having complete control over their non conference games.  I always liked the idea of slated conference crossover games in Week #9 based on regular season success.  Takes care of AD's worries about scheduling a 3rd or 4th non conference game but not getting to choose who that is,  seems to be a big hang up for people.  I wonder why? 

 

Seems like you could use the idea of slated crossover games to make your ideas in the post above work even better! 

[Punttheball]

Big announcement coming from the TRC.

[Gipper]

On 4/21/2023 at 3:55 PM, HoopsCoach said:

In my post on the topic of Harrison and McCutcheon being booted from the NCC, I proposed a plan to expand that conference and include a blend of the current members with some slightly smaller schools within the NCC footprint.  I’m applying that same thought to the NIC and NLC, which would be to combine them and split into 2 regions (East and West), each with two divisions (Large and Small).   Something like this, with enrollments from the fall 2022 count day included.

East Region, Large Division (EL):

Elkhart 3302

Goshen 1981

Concord 1775

Northridge 1389

East Region, Small Division (ES):

Plymouth 1076

Northwood 917

Wawasee 906

Mishawaka Marian 698

West Region, Large Division (WL):

Penn 3401

Warsaw 2096

South Bend Adams 1976

Mishawaka 1463

West Region, Small Division (WS):

South Bend Riley 992

South Bend Washington 834

South Bend Saint Joseph 819

New Prairie 978

In football, each school plays the 3 in their division, 2 from the other division of schools their size, and 1 from each of the 2 divisions of schools a different size.  That gives each school 7 conference games.  It also allows them to preserve some long-time rivalries and still play 2 non-conference games against opponents of their choice.  In basketball, each team plays everyone in their region (east/west) and the 4 schools from the opposite side of the conference who play in the same size-based division.  So using Penn as an example, this could be their football schedule, not necessarily in this order.

Valparaiso

Cathedral

Mishawaka (WL 1)

Warsaw (WL 2)

South Bend Adams (WL 3)

Elkhart (EL 1)

Northridge (EL 2)

Northwood (ES)

New Prairie (WS)

Elkhart could then have a schedule like this:

Hammond Morton

Lake Central

Concord (EL 1)

Goshen (EL 2)

Northridge (EL 3)

Penn (WL 1)

Warsaw (WL 2)

Mishawaka Marian (ES)

South Bend St. Joseph (WS)

This is just as unlikely to happen as my suggestion for the NCC.

From a football perspective, I love it.  Bus as for the non-revenue (or "country club {treading lightly} sports"), it could be logistically challenging...

[Justafan]

2 hours ago, Punttheball said:

Big announcement coming from the TRC.

Is  the TRC kicking out Valley early?

[Punttheball]

42 minutes ago, Justafan said:

Is  the TRC kicking out Valley early?

Yes, Valley has been officially voted out of the TRC.  Valley was given three options to choose from.  They would not comply with any of the three choices, so the conference elected to dismiss by an 8-0-1 vote.  This will be effective for the fall of 2023.  As I understand it, Valley will need to fill their Fall 2023 football schedule for a year.  

[MarshallCounty]

I am glad the adults and professional educators are focused on doing what is best for the youth of Indiana.

[MacAttack53]

1 hour ago, MarshallCounty said:

I am glad the adults and professional educators are focused on doing what is best for the youth of Indiana.

Do you mean professional educators like the Valley administrators who were intent on not upholding the bylaws to which they had signed and agreed?

Should the Valley professional educators have handled this in a way that didn’t have any negative implications on their student athletes? Or is it the job of the rest of the schools in the conference to do what is best for the Valley student athletes?

[First_Backer_Inside]

It will be interesting to see what Valley athletes decide to pack up shop and ask for a transfer for their senior year. Might not be important to all of them, but there are a lot of really good seniors on that roster that will now miss out on a conference championship and conference accolades that many of them will deserve for their senior year. Would mean the only championship they are eligible for is a sectional championship and so on and well...Chatard is still in that sectional as well as Geurin Catholic.

[FarmerFran]

19 hours ago, Punttheball said:

Yes, Valley has been officially voted out of the TRC.  Valley was given three options to choose from.  They would not comply with any of the three choices, so the conference elected to dismiss by an 8-0-1 vote.  This will be effective for the fall of 2023.  As I understand it, Valley will need to fill their Fall 2023 football schedule for a year.  

I noticed TV currently plays Rochester week 5. Do you think that game will stand given the rivalry? If not, could be a great opportunity in the future for Pioneer and Rochester to play. Pioneer has Hammond Central scheduled right now and would like to get out of that matchup from a travel standpoint.