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What will the future be for the N.I.C.?


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The news that the 3 schools are leaving at the end of 24 is not surprising.  With the future of Clay still up in the air it is hard to figure out what is going to happen.

Will Penn and Elkhart maybe go independent in football to avoid play the weaker SB schools that do nothing game nor gate wise?

Could SJ, Marian, NP, Washington, Riley, Adams form a 6 team conference should Clay be out of the picture?  Would the big 2 stay?

Could the SB public schools be left conference less like Hammond and Gary were?

Lot of unanswered questions for the AD's and Principals to figure

I cannot see any school joining the NIC due to some teams do not travel well

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The NIC is an island of misfit toys.

In a hypothetical situation where Mishawaka stays in the NIC and SB Schools closes Clay, the conference would probably remain viable even if still a poor fit for the big schools in football. Not so sure the NIC makes it to 100.

1 hour ago, ASJCPUMA said:

I cannot see any school joining the NIC due to some teams do not travel well

Outside of picking off Michigan City and Laporte, maybe Valpo--with there being no real reason for the schools to abandon the DAC anyway--it's hard to see a school that's any sort of a fit that hasn't already taken its shot as a member.

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20 minutes ago, psaboy said:

Would a pursuit of Warsaw be a move the NIC would make, would Warsaw be interested?

I think Mishawaka's move from the NIC to the NLC is instructive here. It's hard to imagine what the NIC can offer to large-class schools in the north that those schools can't get in their conferences or by scheduling select NIC schools out of conference. Plus, Warsaw would be trading its relatively short trips to play the NLC's weakest teams for hour-long trips to South Bend. 

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5 minutes ago, PDB26 said:

I think Mishawaka's move from the NIC to the NLC is instructive here. It's hard to imagine what the NIC can offer to large-class schools in the north that those schools can't get in their conferences or by scheduling select NIC schools out of conference. Plus, Warsaw would be trading its relatively short trips to play the NLC's weakest teams for hour-long trips to South Bend. 

Agreed, I'm thinking the NIC may not really have any options, other than to hope to hang on and hope to keep Penn, Elkhart and New Prairie. 

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Not quite sure why any of the DAC schools would want to leave? That to me is one of the most well-rounded conferences in the state as far as having similar schools 1-8. The only change I could see happening there is if Penn gets added; maybe a package deal with Elkhart?

 

But the NIC is currently in trouble waters. You have 3 pods of schools that really just "kind of" fit one another. Big schools = Penn & Elkhart. Mid-Sized = NP, STJ, Marian. South Bend publics = Washington, Adams, Riley (assuming clay is shutting down). It works for the time being but long term that is not a stable conference. Unfortunately the NLC is doing pretty well and I don't they would want any part of a shake up. But I think there has to be a major shake up in 3 conferences to stabilize the Michiana area.

Conference 1: Penn, Elkhart, Warsaw, Mishawaka, Goshen, Adams, Riley, Washington = 8 public schools that make up the biggest urban "citys" in the Michiana area. You keep some natural rivals. Get Warsaw playing with the big boys. The South Bend schools are currently a liability any place you put them. But with Clay closing enrollment will go up in the other 3, hopefully with improvement on the field could get SB going on a different path.

 

Conference 2: Northwood, Northridge, Concord, New Prairie, St. Joe, Marian, Plymouth, Jimtown = 6 community based mid-sized schools with solid athletics across the board with very good fan support. Then you have the 2 privates that fit the same profile and that's a solid 8 team conference right there. 

 

Conference 3: Laville, Rochester, Bremen, Tippy Valley, Knox, Glenn, Wawasee, Fairfield = 8 Publics in that 2A-3A range. Yes, Wawasee would be by far the biggest school but this is where they fit athletically. That conference screams parity right there.

 

Nearly impossible for this to happen, but this would be an ideal scenario for the Michiana area to stabilize these conferences. Would be awesome to see something like this come to fruition. with 8 team conferences that still gives schools opportunities to play each other if they are in different conferences (Concord vs. Elkhart, Jimtown vs. Bremen, Bremen vs. Plymouth, Marian vs. Mishawaka, etc.)

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3 hours ago, npcougar15 said:

Conference 1: Penn, Elkhart, Warsaw, Mishawaka, Goshen, Adams, Riley, Washington = 8 public schools that make up the biggest urban "citys" in the Michiana area. You keep some natural rivals. Get Warsaw playing with the big boys. The South Bend schools are currently a liability any place you put them. But with Clay closing enrollment will go up in the other 3, hopefully with improvement on the field could get SB going on a different path.

 

Conference 2: Northwood, Northridge, Concord, New Prairie, St. Joe, Marian, Plymouth, Jimtown = 6 community based mid-sized schools with solid athletics across the board with very good fan support. Then you have the 2 privates that fit the same profile and that's a solid 8 team conference right there. 

 

Conference 3: Laville, Rochester, Bremen, Tippy Valley, Knox, Glenn, Wawasee, Fairfield = 8 Publics in that 2A-3A range. Yes, Wawasee would be by far the biggest school but this is where they fit athletically. That conference screams parity right there.

 

Nearly impossible for this to happen, but this would be an ideal scenario for the Michiana area to stabilize these conferences. Would be awesome to see something like this come to fruition. with 8 team conferences that still gives schools opportunities to play each other if they are in different conferences (Concord vs. Elkhart, Jimtown vs. Bremen, Bremen vs. Plymouth, Marian vs. Mishawaka, etc.)

Swap Wawasee (enrollment just over 900) with Jimtown (enrollment 540) and this looks pretty good.

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1 hour ago, Gipper said:

I still like my idea of a NIC megaconference--Schererville to Ft. Wayne--6A schools only...

It's really not a bad idea, travel would be a killer though. Another issue I see is that set up would not include Snider or North Side

 

 

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7 minutes ago, psaboy said:

It's really not a bad idea, travel would be a killer though. Another issue I see is that set up would not include Snider or North Side

 

 

That's the only issue, well, the time zone garbage...

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Still on this:

6A only: Crown Point, Lake Central, Portage (DAC); Elkhart, Penn (NIC); Carroll, Homestead, Northrop (SAC), with the interloper being the Bengal (or Fighting) Tigers of Warsaw (NLC, but they need love, too).

 

A little more creativity to bring it to 16 would ensue adding Merrillville and Valparaiso from the DAC, Dwenger and Snider from the SAC, and since I don't consider anyone else worthy from the NIC, I'd advocate for Huntington North, Munster, and Plymouth to make it even.  Championship game at Notre Dame Stadium as I'm sure they wouldn't mind...

 

Let the games begin.

 

Edited by Gipper
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4 hours ago, Gipper said:

Still on this:

6A only: Crown Point, Lake Central, Portage (DAC); Elkhart, Penn (NIC); Carroll, Homestead, Northrop (SAC), with the interloper being the Bengal (or Fighting) Tigers of Warsaw (NLC, but they need love, too).

 

A little more creativity to bring it to 16 would ensue adding Merrillville and Valparaiso from the DAC, Dwenger and Snider from the SAC, and since I don't consider anyone else worthy from the NIC, I'd advocate for Huntington North, Munster, and Plymouth to make it even.  Championship game at Notre Dame Stadium as I'm sure they wouldn't mind...

 

Let the games begin.

 

Northrop is an enigma IMO, I can't image that they don't have talent in that school to be better in football. I think North Side needs to be in mix somewhere, somehow. 

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On 4/2/2023 at 6:50 PM, HoopsCoach said:

Swap Wawasee (enrollment just over 900) with Jimtown (enrollment 540) and this looks pretty good.

That was the one that I was hesitant about. a couple things went into Jimtown "moving up". 

- Wawasee in the "smaller conference" would be a MUCH better geography fit for them

- From an on field performance standpoint Wawasee just doesn't fit the other schools (yeah I know Plymouth is HORRIBLE but geography and history play a role)

- While Jimtown is just a shadow of what they once were. They've still be competitive every year. Part of me would love to see a renaissance by the Jimmies and think it would be awesome for them to play NP, Marian, Northwood ,etc. trying to win a title. It honestly just doesn't seem right for that program not to challenge itself and play at the highest level available. 

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16 hours ago, psaboy said:

Northrop is an enigma IMO, I can't image that they don't have talent in that school to be better in football. I think North Side needs to be in mix somewhere, somehow. 

I'm not very familiar with the FWA schools.

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I feel like low gate numbers is a cop out for those small schools to leave.  Basketball is still the big bread winner in just about every school in Indiana. You draw similar numbers expect you get more the double the home games.  So that i just don't understand that but,  We've gotta figure out something.  SB Washington is still a school of under 1,000 so putting them in a conference with Elkhart and Penn both of whom have more than double is crazy. I think if the NIC wants to stay alive they have to pouch schools from neighbors.  You've gotta sell them on competitive balance and ease in travel.

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On 4/10/2023 at 10:37 AM, SB1987 said:

I feel like low gate numbers is a cop out for those small schools to leave.  Basketball is still the big bread winner in just about every school in Indiana. You draw similar numbers expect you get more the double the home games.  So that i just don't understand that but,  We've gotta figure out something.  SB Washington is still a school of under 1,000 so putting them in a conference with Elkhart and Penn both of whom have more than double is crazy. I think if the NIC wants to stay alive they have to pouch schools from neighbors.  You've gotta sell them on competitive balance and ease in travel.

No one wants to leave a stable conference to join. 

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4 hours ago, WolvesOnTheProwl said:

Probably a dumb question but who actually “runs” the NIC or any conference in general? Is it the schools AD’s or is there an actual committee or person that oversees the entire conference?

It doesn't seem like a dumb question to me. First, a disclaimer since my practical knowledge is dated. I always assumed the ADs were either always running the show or they took over at some point. Penn was still handing out NIC all-conference certificates that listed Elston as a conference member more than a decade after consolidating with Rogers. Hard to think an independent committee was issuing those, but maybe we were the idiots.

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On 4/3/2023 at 7:56 PM, psaboy said:

Northrop is an enigma IMO, I can't image that they don't have talent in that school to be better in football. I think North Side needs to be in mix somewhere, somehow. 

We all know that the talent which Northrop has, routinely is in the stands on Friday nights.   It's inexcusable that past the days of Matt Stinson this program has been an outlier in 6A.

They absolutely deserve to be placed firmly in the "considered" conference, if no reason other than to: Elevate the recent shame they have provided within 6A.

I am a Quentin Brown fan...I think he may.make them relevant to 6A.   I truly believe that HE can get some of those 'track stars' to participate in FB.  

Edited by Yuccaguy
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On 4/10/2023 at 10:37 AM, SB1987 said:

I feel like low gate numbers is a cop out for those small schools to leave.  Basketball is still the big bread winner in just about every school in Indiana. You draw similar numbers expect you get more the double the home games.  So that i just don't understand that but,  We've gotta figure out something.  SB Washington is still a school of under 1,000 so putting them in a conference with Elkhart and Penn both of whom have more than double is crazy. I think if the NIC wants to stay alive they have to pouch schools from neighbors.  You've gotta sell them on competitive balance and ease in travel.

Its not.  The fact that some of the NIC schools cannot field JV/Freshman teams in MANY sports is the primary factor. 

Why should Bremen, Jimtown, Glenn, etc stay in conference when half the kids in their programs constantly have their games/contests cancelled.  Seems like the only responsible thing to do for their student athletes.  The reality is, this change says less about the smaller NIC schools and MUCH more about some of the larger schools.

On 4/15/2023 at 8:28 AM, WolvesOnTheProwl said:

Probably a dumb question but who actually “runs” the NIC or any conference in general? Is it the schools AD’s or is there an actual committee or person that oversees the entire conference?

All conferences have different by-laws, but generally is a combination of the Principals & AD's.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Let's all be fair, The NIC will either disband or consolidate into a smaller school conference.  The South Bend Schools do not want to play Penn; Mishawaka ran away from being the best team in the NIC because of Penn.  Now because of size Elkhart is on the Island of "You're too big," the NLC allows Warsaw in the conference and probably would take Elkhart as well.  But, the NLC would never consider Penn joining....Even though that conference makes the most sense at this present moment.  

With the formation of the small school conference, the NLC taking on Elkhart and maybe encouraging either Wawasee or Plymouth to move on would make sense.

Penn wont join the DAC, too much driving from week to week.  But, if you consider that driving with the possibility of the driving you will do with an independent schedule, maybe it is the second best fit.

If Penn joined the DAC, would the conference restructure or stay a single table, you play the schedule given.  Penn likes only having 5 conference games, it gives them the most schedule freedom.  Adding Penn to the DAC gives them 9, if you also bring on Elkhart that is 10.  

You could do the I80 teams: Elkhart, Penn, LaPorte, Michigan City and Portage (the weaker division) and the others are in the second portion.

You could do and even mix: Elkhart, Penn, Valpo, Merrillville and LaPorte or Portage.  This keeps the two furthest teams together, but also gives them a better variety of what the DAC offers.  

Penn and Elkhart would then have the freedom of scheduling local teams to continue rivalries or even pursue past rivalries.

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Penn to the NLC does nothing for Penn on the big stage. 

Is it better than current NIC situation....yes. 

Is playing Northwood, Northridge, Goshen, & Concord preparing you to beat the best schools in the Region, FW, and Indy...emphatically No.

Go Indendent, and I'm sure with in a year or so you could schedule Mishawaka, Warsaw, Elkhart, and a couple DAC schools, along with your marquee matchups with Carmel, Cathedrawl, Brother Rice, etc.  It seems like you could get CG on a schedule too.

Penn to the NLC makes zero sense for the NLC or Penn.

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