What will the future be for the N.I.C.?

[PDB26]

1 hour ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Penn wont join the DAC, too much driving from week to week.  But, if you consider that driving with the possibility of the driving you will do with an independent schedule, maybe it is the second best fit.

I think this argument was suspect when the administration made it in 2002, and does not reflect the reality of Penn's scheduling across almost all of its sports today. Most programs already compete against a number of teams in the Region--both home and away year-to-year--as well as against schools in the SAC plus Carmel and others. The flexibility of days on which all other programs compete mitigates travel concerns even more. A move to the DAC would require a different arrangement for when JV and freshman football games are played, something that should be seen as a welcome and necessary change anyway. Freshman football on Thursdays and the odd the Monday here and there makes no sense.

1 hour ago, US31 said:

Penn to the NLC makes zero sense for the NLC or Penn.

Agreed, just another square peg in a round hole situation. To your point, the NLC would make for a marginal improvement, but that's only because the NIC is one of the most conceivably bad arrangements for Penn in the first place.

[BLACKGOLD2007]

5 hours ago, US31 said:

Penn to the NLC does nothing for Penn on the big stage. 

Is it better than current NIC situation....yes. 

Is playing Northwood, Northridge, Goshen, & Concord preparing you to beat the best schools in the Region, FW, and Indy...emphatically No.

Go Indendent, and I'm sure with in a year or so you could schedule Mishawaka, Warsaw, Elkhart, and a couple DAC schools, along with your marquee matchups with Carmel, Cathedrawl, Brother Rice, etc.  It seems like you could get CG on a schedule too.

Penn to the NLC makes zero sense for the NLC or Penn.

You are right, my thought about the NLC idea was the NLC has amazing fan bases and it is super local.  The games are always packed, so the amount of money for door and parking would go up.  But, grand scheme of things no, the smaller competitive local teams do not help prep a bigger Penn for any situation in the playoffs. 

The DAC or going Independent are the two premium options.

But, even with going Independent, there have to be filler games...

 

[BLACKGOLD2007]

3 hours ago, PDB26 said:

I think this argument was suspect when the administration made it in 2002, and does not reflect the reality of Penn's scheduling across almost all of its sports today. Most programs already compete against a number of teams in the Region--both home and away year-to-year--as well as against schools in the SAC plus Carmel and others. The flexibility of days on which all other programs compete mitigates travel concerns even more. A move to the DAC would require a different arrangement for when JV and freshman football games are played, something that should be seen as a welcome and necessary change anyway. Freshman football on Thursdays and the odd the Monday here and there makes no sense.

I think that when each option is laid out for presentation, if remaining in a conference is Penn's goal, then the DAC is the way to go....With that being said, I would suggest only going into the DAC if they jump to 10 teams and onboard Elkhart with them.  This gives Penn the opportunity to get 5 conference games and 4 non again.  Penn's conference schedule will improve right away, and they can still look south, east or north for touch competition. 

If the DAC wont move on that, Independent all the way.  

[Trojan67]

On 5/15/2023 at 12:10 PM, US31 said:

Penn to the NLC does nothing for Penn on the big stage. 

Is it better than current NIC situation....yes. 

Is playing Northwood, Northridge, Goshen, & Concord preparing you to beat the best schools in the Region, FW, and Indy...emphatically No.

Go Indendent, and I'm sure with in a year or so you could schedule Mishawaka, Warsaw, Elkhart, and a couple DAC schools, along with your marquee matchups with Carmel, Cathedrawl, Brother Rice, etc.  It seems like you could get CG on a schedule too.

Penn to the NLC makes zero sense for the NLC or Penn.

I said this before in a past post, but I think there needs to be restructuring within the conferences to make everyone more or less happy. Here is my take on the whole situation. 

Penn, Mishawaka, New Prairie, Warsaw, Goshen, Concord, and Elkhart

Plymouth, Wawasee, Northridge, Northwood, Adams, Riley, Washington

Just my take, Penn going independent just increases driving. Restructuring the conferences is a better solution. You have 7 in the conference, allows you to schedule 3 non conference opponents. Is it a perfect solution? No. But it is a happy medium. 

[US31]

1 hour ago, Trojan67 said:

I said this before in a past post, but I think there needs to be restructuring within the conferences to make everyone more or less happy. Here is my take on the whole situation. 

Penn, Mishawaka, New Prairie, Warsaw, Goshen, Concord, and Elkhart

Plymouth, Wawasee, Northridge, Northwood, Adams, Riley, Washington

Just my take, Penn going independent just increases driving. Restructuring the conferences is a better solution. You have 7 in the conference, allows you to schedule 3 non conference opponents. Is it a perfect solution? No. But it is a happy medium. 

Why should the NLC blow up their conference to help SB area schools????

This would be stupid for Ply/Waw/NR/NW.  Say bye bye to a large amount of your athletic gate, and quite a few of your JV/Frosh contests in a lot of sports.  Several MUCH smaller athletic programs want nothing to do with the SB schools for those exact reasons.  Why should 4A NLC schools want to hitch themselves to those SB schools????

You could argue that the NLC is holding back Warsaw, but they have a much better situation in the NLC than they would in a South Bend/Elkhart conference.  

[MarshallCounty]

Agreed, one of the biggest reasons why the 3 schools are leaving the NIC is money. Playing the South Bend schools has led to a dramatic drop in gate the last 7/8 years. Also, they don’t field JV and freshmen teams in a lot of sports as well. What sounds good in theory doesn’t hold up in the real world. 

[npcougar15]

10 hours ago, Trojan67 said:

I said this before in a past post, but I think there needs to be restructuring within the conferences to make everyone more or less happy. Here is my take on the whole situation. 

Penn, Mishawaka, New Prairie, Warsaw, Goshen, Concord, and Elkhart

Plymouth, Wawasee, Northridge, Northwood, Adams, Riley, Washington

Just my take, Penn going independent just increases driving. Restructuring the conferences is a better solution. You have 7 in the conference, allows you to schedule 3 non conference opponents. Is it a perfect solution? No. But it is a happy medium. 

Yeah that would be a pretty brutal conference for NP to be in and noway that administrators would be down for that when you consider all sports. I think people forget that NP doesn't even have 1000 students, they are on the smaller side of 4A schools as it is. just for comparison sake Northridge is still 4A but has 1410, New Prairie is at 985.

 

Penn: 3345

Elkhart: 3330

Warsaw: 2096

Goshen: 2015

Concrod: 1694

Mishawaka: 1603

New Prairie: 985

Edited May 18 by npcougar15

[Trojan67]

15 hours ago, npcougar15 said:

Yeah that would be a pretty brutal conference for NP to be in and noway that administrators would be down for that when you consider all sports. I think people forget that NP doesn't even have 1000 students, they are on the smaller side of 4A schools as it is. just for comparison sake Northridge is still 4A but has 1410, New Prairie is at 985.

 

Penn: 3345

Elkhart: 3330

Warsaw: 2096

Goshen: 2015

Concrod: 1694

Mishawaka: 1603

New Prairie: 985

Wasn't New Prairie wanting the competition? Thought that was one of the main reasons why they went to the NIC? 

[Trojan67]

On 5/18/2023 at 8:19 AM, US31 said:

Why should the NLC blow up their conference to help SB area schools????

This would be stupid for Ply/Waw/NR/NW.  Say bye bye to a large amount of your athletic gate, and quite a few of your JV/Frosh contests in a lot of sports.  Several MUCH smaller athletic programs want nothing to do with the SB schools for those exact reasons.  Why should 4A NLC schools want to hitch themselves to those SB schools????

You could argue that the NLC is holding back Warsaw, but they have a much better situation in the NLC than they would in a South Bend/Elkhart conference.  

So, if your mad about the NLC not wanting to blow things up, then does the NIC tell the SB schools that they have to go independent or find a new conference? Because that is what I think people are trying to say without saying it. 

[MarshallCounty]

35 minutes ago, Trojan67 said:

Wasn't New Prairie wanting the competition? Thought that was one of the main reasons why they went to the NIC? 

The went to the NIC becasue they didn't have any other options.

[US31]

31 minutes ago, Trojan67 said:

So, if your mad about the NLC not wanting to blow things up, then does the NIC tell the SB schools that they have to go independent or find a new conference? Because that is what I think people are trying to say without saying it. 

All I'm saying is that whatever problems exist with current NIC schools....those problems are not the current NLC schools' to solve.  

At no point am I "mad" about anything.  I'm just trying to point out the reality of how these decisions are made, and all of these schools should be welcome to make the best decisions for their own student athletes.  Sometimes those best interests are common to other schools...sometimes they aren't.  

Edited May 19 by US31

[npcougar15]

6 hours ago, Trojan67 said:

Wasn't New Prairie wanting the competition? Thought that was one of the main reasons why they went to the NIC? 

yes and no. NP outgrew the old NSC; when the NSC disassembled NP, Glenn, Bremen, Jimtown didn't have much of a choice other than landing in the NIC. Not ideal but it worked for the time being. It was pretty apparent that it was going to be a temporary conference affiliation for certain members and honestly lasted a little longer than I originally thought. The NIC is NOT the best fit for ANY of the old NSC schools and with Elkhart forming and Mishawaka leaving it's created a bigger gap between the big schools (Elkhart, Penn, Adams) and medium sized schools (NP, St. Joe, Marian, Riley, Washington, Jimtown).

 

Unfortunately, NP sits in "no mans land" when it comes to conference affiliation. You have the NCC that's just a little too far to west to be apart of (man would it be great to play Hobart, Lowell, Andrean for a conference title every season) and you have the NLC which would be way more realistic and doable to the east. 

 

I said it before and I'll say it again, but this is the most balanced/stable conference's the michiana schools could create:

Penn, Elkhart, Warsaw, Mishawaka, Goshen, Adams, Riley, Washington

Northridge, Northwood, New Prairie, Plymouth, Concord, St. Joe, Marian, Jimtown (or if CMA wants to play)

Bremen, Glenn, LaVille, Wawasee, Tippy Valley, Knox, Rochester, Fairfield

[MarshallCounty]

2 hours ago, npcougar15 said:

yes and no. NP outgrew the old NSC; when the NSC disassembled NP, Glenn, Bremen, Jimtown didn't have much of a choice other than landing in the NIC. Not ideal but it worked for the time being. It was pretty apparent that it was going to be a temporary conference affiliation for certain members and honestly lasted a little longer than I originally thought. The NIC is NOT the best fit for ANY of the old NSC schools and with Elkhart forming and Mishawaka leaving it's created a bigger gap between the big schools (Elkhart, Penn, Adams) and medium sized schools (NP, St. Joe, Marian, Riley, Washington, Jimtown).

 

Unfortunately, NP sits in "no mans land" when it comes to conference affiliation. You have the NCC that's just a little too far to west to be apart of (man would it be great to play Hobart, Lowell, Andrean for a conference title every season) and you have the NLC which would be way more realistic and doable to the east. 

 

I said it before and I'll say it again, but this is the most balanced/stable conference's the michiana schools could create:

Penn, Elkhart, Warsaw, Mishawaka, Goshen, Adams, Riley, Washington

Northridge, Northwood, New Prairie, Plymouth, Concord, St. Joe, Marian, Jimtown (or if CMA wants to play)

Bremen, Glenn, LaVille, Wawasee, Tippy Valley, Knox, Rochester, Fairfield

On paper I think you’re correct. But gate receipts also need to be considered. 

[johnny U]

9 hours ago, Trojan67 said:

So, if your mad about the NLC not wanting to blow things up, then does the NIC tell the SB schools that they have to go independent or find a new conference? Because that is what I think people are trying to say without saying it. 

I don't think you can include Adams in the group.  I feel that with their new AD and numerous good coaches, they will be able to compete  with the big boys in the future.

[NLCTigerFan07]

On 5/19/2023 at 4:28 PM, npcougar15 said:

I said it before and I'll say it again, but this is the most balanced/stable conference's the michiana schools could create:

Penn, Elkhart, Warsaw, Mishawaka, Goshen, Adams, Riley, Washington

Northridge, Northwood, New Prairie, Plymouth, Concord, St. Joe, Marian, Jimtown (or if CMA wants to play)

Bremen, Glenn, LaVille, Wawasee, Tippy Valley, Knox, Rochester, Fairfield

Not that I think it would happen anyway, but if you flipped Northridge and Concord for Riley and Washington in this above scenario... I could MAYBE see it working. But like others have said, I do not believe the NLC is in any hurry to basically blow up it's current structure just to fix the disparities the NIC has. Like @US31 said - it's not up to the NLC to fix the NIC's problems. I would think as thing currently sit, the NLC is pretty happy/content currently.

[BLACKGOLD2007]

On 5/19/2023 at 10:01 AM, US31 said:

All I'm saying is that whatever problems exist with current NIC schools....those problems are not the current NLC schools' to solve.  

At no point am I "mad" about anything.  I'm just trying to point out the reality of how these decisions are made, and all of these schools should be welcome to make the best decisions for their own student athletes.  Sometimes those best interests are common to other schools...sometimes they aren't.  

Preach.  We just need to accept that the NIC is on it's very last peg leg to stand on.  At some point the three schools will either be conference-less or make a small conference with SB St. Joe and Marian.  Penn and Elkhart have got to be looking at all of their options.  

It is a touch situation all around, but the SBSC has almost brought this upon themselves with their poor performing schools across the board.  I feel for the kids that go there.

[BLACKGOLD2007]

On 5/19/2023 at 4:28 PM, npcougar15 said:

yes and no. NP outgrew the old NSC; when the NSC disassembled NP, Glenn, Bremen, Jimtown didn't have much of a choice other than landing in the NIC. Not ideal but it worked for the time being. It was pretty apparent that it was going to be a temporary conference affiliation for certain members and honestly lasted a little longer than I originally thought. The NIC is NOT the best fit for ANY of the old NSC schools and with Elkhart forming and Mishawaka leaving it's created a bigger gap between the big schools (Elkhart, Penn, Adams) and medium sized schools (NP, St. Joe, Marian, Riley, Washington, Jimtown).

 

Unfortunately, NP sits in "no mans land" when it comes to conference affiliation. You have the NCC that's just a little too far to west to be apart of (man would it be great to play Hobart, Lowell, Andrean for a conference title every season) and you have the NLC which would be way more realistic and doable to the east. 

 

I said it before and I'll say it again, but this is the most balanced/stable conference's the michiana schools could create:

Penn, Elkhart, Warsaw, Mishawaka, Goshen, Adams, Riley, Washington

Northridge, Northwood, New Prairie, Plymouth, Concord, St. Joe, Marian, Jimtown (or if CMA wants to play)

Bremen, Glenn, LaVille, Wawasee, Tippy Valley, Knox, Rochester, Fairfield

I hear you on what is best for local school affiliation, but Mishawaka ran from Penn once, they wont join a conference with them again.  

I think in all honesty, if the NIC dissolves, the SB schools and the catholic schools joining together might be the only option.  Penn going to the Duneland with either Elkhart or NP would be interesting.  However, I think the NLC would be dumb to not try to scoop up Elkhart.  They could even consider NP, but that is a long drive from Wawasee and Warsaw.  But, the fanatics of the NLC will drive.  

[Wedgebuster]

The issue with long drives isn't fans or Varsity Football on Friday nights.....its kids spending 2.5 hours in a bus on a school night to play a JV Tennis Match and all the other sports that don't exclusively play on Friday night.  Commuting for football doesn't bother me at all......but go talk to the baseball coach that has to play a double header 80 minutes away and then teach the next day.  That burns out coaches and their families very quickly