Lewis Cass leaving Hoosier Conference next fall for TRC

[CoachShanley]

On 5/3/2023 at 7:49 PM, foxbat said:

Supposedly it was enrollment gap, geography, and competitive imbalance.  Realistically two of those make no sense at all as Jeff is situated between Harrison and McCutcheon geographically and Jeff is currently larger than both McCutcheon and Harrison.  Competitive imbalance because Harrison wins a lot of country club sports like tennis and wins the NCC all sports titles, but when it comes to the mainstream sports there's little dominance by Harrison that also doesn't show up in the Jeff history too.  See post below for more details, at least through 2020, on the competitive balance claim ... especially taking into account that Jeff was one of the schools voting out Harrison.  In essence Jeff is saying in that vote that 1) they can't compete with Harrison or 2) they want to have the inside track to easy football victories again ... because they sure can't be saying that Harrison and McCutcheon are too far away and that Harrison and McCutcheon are too big.

 

 

 

Foxbat:  I can assure you that having "the inside track" for NCC/regular seasons victories in football had absolutely nothing to do with Jeff being part of the 70% to vote TSC out of the NCC.  Additionally, your continued posts stating that Jeff is the largest school in the county is not factual. Look up the Fall 2022 ADM enrollment numbers. HHS has officially surpassed Jeff.  Look for Jeff to be hanging out in the range of 1,980-2,090 students moving forward. HHS enrollment growth or the highly competitive games dating back to 2017 had absolutely nothing to do with why we are where we are today. 

It is my hope that those within the Lafayette community will continue to see Jeff/HHS/McC continue to play each other on the gridiron in the future.  It is unfortunate we are we are. However, the kids and the communities deserve to be part of those games.  

[foxbat]

2 hours ago, CoachShanley said:

 

Foxbat:  I can assure you that having "the inside track" for NCC/regular seasons victories in football had absolutely nothing to do with Jeff being part of the 70% to vote TSC out of the NCC.  Additionally, your continued posts stating that Jeff is the largest school in the county is not factual. Look up the Fall 2022 ADM enrollment numbers. HHS has officially surpassed Jeff.  Look for Jeff to be hanging out in the range of 1,980-2,090 students moving forward. HHS enrollment growth or the highly competitive games dating back to 2017 had absolutely nothing to do with why we are where we are today. 

It is my hope that those within the Lafayette community will continue to see Jeff/HHS/McC continue to play each other on the gridiron in the future.  It is unfortunate we are we are. However, the kids and the communities deserve to be part of those games.  

I'm basing my sizing on the IHSAA classification for the schools for 2022-2023 and 2023-2024: https://www.ihsaa.org/sites/default/files/documents/2022-23 2023-24 Football Alignment.pdf. I certainly agree that Harrison will likely surpass Jeff in the next classification round and so they'll both likely be in the lower 6A / upper 5A.  Of course, given the numbers that you are projecting for Jeff, that still places them upper 5A or lower 6A and also puts them above McCutcheon for size. 

The argument about enrollment gap in the NCC certainly is a legitimate one ... if you are Richmond, Logansport, or Marion ... but arguing about a couple hundred kids difference when Jeff and Harrison are both trolling the deep water of the IHSAA ocean seems somewhat off from Jeff's position.  Realistically, Jeff and Harrison look the same, large, compared to the Logansports, Marions, Richmonds, etc.  Even with the low end of the enrollment you are projecting for Jeff, it still puts them about 400-500 above Kokomo and roughly 600-900 above Richmond, Marion, and Logansport.  Not to be a d*ck about things, but in the 20+ years that I've lived in this area, I've not once heard Jeff complain about enrollment gaps with McCutcheon and Harrison and how unfair it was that those two smaller schools had to compete against a 6A, upper 5A, school.  I certainly can see the point of Marion and Richmond and Logansport wanting Harrison and McCutcheon out, but not Jeff.  Travel's not an issue for Jeff to Harrison.  Serious enrollment gap isn't an issue either.  Competitive imbalance?  For Harrison and Richmond and Harrison and Marion?  Probably.  Between Jeff and Harrison?  No way.

I've been a fan of what Jeff's been able to do with the advent of the Moore seasons and into your guidance of making them competitive again.  And I have ties to Jeff too as my three oldest kids all attended Jeff.  I've even sent you DMs concerning my appreciation for your stances on community issues.  But this is a bad look for Jeff in this "fight."  Same thing with Logansport too if they were considering to jumping to the Hoosier Conference at the time of the vote.  The vote should have been an abstain.  Similarly with Jeff, I can't see a legitimate reason for Jeff looking at those three issues, from their own vis-a-vis with Harrison and saying, "Oh yeah, I believe every one of these wholeheartedly."  Or, realistically, even one.  Again, I think it's a bad look for Jeff because none of those things make any real sense for Jeff to have pulled the trigger on an affirmative vote.  They didn't have to vote "no," especially if there was an amendment hanging around to make it three Lafayette-area schools instead of two, but an abstain would have been the proper thing to do, IMO, for Jeff as the reasons just don't hold any real water vis-a-vis Jeff and Harrison.

[AG]

5 hours ago, CoachShanley said:

 

Foxbat:  I can assure you that having "the inside track" for NCC/regular seasons victories in football had absolutely nothing to do with Jeff being part of the 70% to vote TSC out of the NCC.  Additionally, your continued posts stating that Jeff is the largest school in the county is not factual. Look up the Fall 2022 ADM enrollment numbers. HHS has officially surpassed Jeff.  Look for Jeff to be hanging out in the range of 1,980-2,090 students moving forward. HHS enrollment growth or the highly competitive games dating back to 2017 had absolutely nothing to do with why we are where we are today. 

It is my hope that those within the Lafayette community will continue to see Jeff/HHS/McC continue to play each other on the gridiron in the future.  It is unfortunate we are we are. However, the kids and the communities deserve to be part of those games.  

Okay, so what is the actual reason? Transparency is needed here.

[HoopsCoach]

6 hours ago, CoachShanley said:

HHS enrollment growth or the highly competitive games dating back to 2017 had absolutely nothing to do with why we are where we are today. 

[CoachShanley]

On 5/3/2023 at 7:49 PM, foxbat said:

Supposedly it was enrollment gap, geography, and competitive imbalance.  Realistically two of those make no sense at all as Jeff is situated between Harrison and McCutcheon geographically and Jeff is currently larger than both McCutcheon and Harrison.  Competitive imbalance because Harrison wins a lot of country club sports like tennis and wins the NCC all sports titles, but when it comes to the mainstream sports there's little dominance by Harrison that also doesn't show up in the Jeff history too.  See post below for more details, at least through 2020, on the competitive balance claim ... especially taking into account that Jeff was one of the schools voting out Harrison.  In essence Jeff is saying in that vote that 1) they can't compete with Harrison or 2) they want to have the inside track to easy football victories again ... because they sure can't be saying that Harrison and McCutcheon are too far away and that Harrison and McCutcheon are too big.

 

 

Not complaining about enrollment. Simply stating that what you were saying about enrollment is no longer true. We have been in 6A for seven years and for us to have post-season success, we will have to beat teams that have 1,000+ more kids than us.  Did the eastern NCC schools have an issue with enrollment of HHS/McC? Not sure. Ask them. It is not my position to speak further on the “why” behind Jeff’s vote in favor of these changes.  I can tell you that searching for regular season wins in football had absolutely nothing to do with it.  I can assure you that we will continue to find/seek the best teams that we can play during the regular season in order to prepare ourselves to be at our best for the playoffs. It is my hope that HHS/McC remain on our schedule in football regular season moving forward. 

[Ballhawk]

What does Jeff, Harrison and McCutcheon and the NCC have to do with the topic of Lewis Cass leaving the Hoosier Conference for the Three Rivers?  Start a new thread if you want to dig deeper into what's going on in the NCC.

[Donnie Baker]

6 hours ago, Ballhawk said:

What does Jeff, Harrison and McCutcheon and the NCC have to do with the topic of Lewis Cass leaving the Hoosier Conference for the Three Rivers?  Start a new thread if you want to dig deeper into what's going on in the NCC.

And you said it right to their face!

[from_the_sidelines007]

And the dominoes keep falling. . . 

 

as always, the game is better

from_the_sidelines007

[gonzoron]

22 hours ago, Ballhawk said:

What does Jeff, Harrison and McCutcheon and the NCC have to do with the topic of Lewis Cass leaving the Hoosier Conference for the Three Rivers?  Start a new thread if you want to dig deeper into what's going on in the NCC.

Be careful, the "You can't tell me what to say" Mafia will come after ya. It's State Law.

I'm pretty shocked they didn't already

[Ballhawk]

8 hours ago, gonzoron said:

Be careful, the "You can't tell me what to say" Mafia will come after ya. It's State Law.

I'm pretty shocked they didn't already

I am a little surprised myself.  It did put a temporary halt on the Jeff/McCutcheon/Harrison hijack.

I still follow the Hoosier, even though we left a while back.  I have not had any interest in the NCC and never will.

[foxbat]

Just now, Ballhawk said:

I am a little surprised myself.  It did put a temporary halt on the Jeff/McCutcheon/Harrison hijack.

I still follow the Hoosier, even though we left a while back.  I have not had any interest in the NCC and never will.

There was no hijack intended.  @vicvinegarasked a simple question ... I'm assuming he was trying to gauge what might have sent Logansport, from the NCC, looking to the HC ...  and I responded.  Someone else then responded. 

From the Logansport side, I'm somewhat perplexed as to whether they decided before or after Cass bolted to make a play for the Hoosier Conference.  Anyone have insight on that?  Unexpected opportunity, planned strategy, or a mix of both based on goings on in their old haunts?

[Gipper]

From a competitive standpoint, how do the HC and TRC match-up?   I know of many good programs in the Hoosier, such as CC, Rensselaer, Tipton, West Lafayette, and Western.  What does the TRC bring to the table?

[Donnie Baker]

11 hours ago, gonzoron said:

Be careful, the "You can't tell me what to say" Mafia will come after ya. It's State Law.

I'm pretty shocked they didn't already

So they kicked you out?

[gonzoron]

9 minutes ago, Donnie Baker said:

So they kicked you out?

I've never told anyone they can't tell me what to say.

I got no skin in the game anymore anyway. I'm done. Last kid graduating. I swear to god he is.

Edited May 9 by gonzoron

[Ballhawk]

17 hours ago, Gipper said:

From a competitive standpoint, how do the HC and TRC match-up?   I know of many good programs in the Hoosier, such as CC, Rensselaer, Tipton, West Lafayette, and Western.  What does the TRC bring to the table?

I would say the Hoosier is a much stronger conference, but the HC schools would be larger enrollment schools than the TRC, so not a true apples to apples comparison.  I would add Hamilton Heights to the mix of good programs in the HC, and Twin Lakes may rebound with Coach O'Shea taking over the football program.

17 hours ago, foxbat said:

There was no hijack intended.  @vicvinegarasked a simple question ... I'm assuming he was trying to gauge what might have sent Logansport, from the NCC, looking to the HC ...  and I responded.  Someone else then responded. 

I guess hijack was a little strong, but the topic certainly was diverted to LJ/MC/H and the NCC.  It's all good.

[foxbat]

17 hours ago, Gipper said:

From a competitive standpoint, how do the HC and TRC match-up?   I know of many good programs in the Hoosier, such as CC, Rensselaer, Tipton, West Lafayette, and Western.  What does the TRC bring to the table?

 

6 minutes ago, Ballhawk said:

I would say the Hoosier is a much stronger conference, but the HC schools would be larger enrollment schools than the TRC, so not a true apples to apples comparison.  I would add Hamilton Heights to the mix of good programs in the HC, and Twin Lakes may rebound with Coach O'Shea taking over the football program.

 

Like @Ballhawksaid, I'd say the Hoosier is a stronger conference of the two overall ... especially on the gridiron side of the coin.  One advantage that TRC brings, specifically for Cass, is Rochester in 2A.  On the other hand, having to face 2A Tipton and (sometimes 3A) RCHS/ (sometimes 1A) LCC every season is probably the better "stone sharpener" for 2A.  At first blush, the thing I quickly noticed on TRC was lots of 1A.  Southwood tends to be sturdy 1A with Northfield being occasionally sturdy, from a 2A team perspective.  3A+ TRC seem "less dangerous" than a couple chances in HC 3A.  Drawing WL and, in some years, HH, can sometimes have some teams coming out banged up that will last into the season.

[Muda69]

18 hours ago, Gipper said:

What does the TRC bring to the table?

Go Braves.

 

[MarshallCounty]

Demographics are changing drastically in the state and the trend will continue for the forseeable future. Every pocket of the state is seeing changes. The size of families is part of this, this generation is having less and less children. Economic factors are also shifting and rural and old rust belt cities are seeing an exodus. Some pockets of the state are seeing growth, while others are seeing an outflow. The confrence changes we are seeing are more or less a sympthom of this. Traditional 1A schools are now 3A. Some 4A and 3A schools are now closer to 2A. If I was a betting man, I would wager a guess that we will see more changes for years to come. I have no issue with it, school admin have to weigh their options and give their students the best home to field teams on their equitable levels.

[Gipper]

On 5/10/2023 at 1:04 PM, MarshallCounty said:

Demographics are changing drastically in the state and the trend will continue for the forseeable future. Every pocket of the state is seeing changes. The size of families is part of this, this generation is having less and less children. Economic factors are also shifting and rural and old rust belt cities are seeing an exodus. Some pockets of the state are seeing growth, while others are seeing an outflow. The confrence changes we are seeing are more or less a sympthom of this. Traditional 1A schools are now 3A. Some 4A and 3A schools are now closer to 2A. If I was a betting man, I would wager a guess that we will see more changes for years to come. I have no issue with it, school admin have to weigh their options and give their students the best home to field teams on their equitable levels.

INDEED.

[dcjjones]

need to put this topic out to pasture.  Time to mooooooove on!

Edited May 18 by dcjjones

[gonzoron]

Hamilton Heights has filled the empty schedule spot caused by Lewis Cass' departure with 4A South Bend Washington at Hamilton Heights.

Oct. 6

South Bend Washington 4A

7:30 pm

Edited May 23 by gonzoron

[foxbat]

On 5/23/2023 at 1:40 PM, gonzoron said:

Hamilton Heights has filled the empty schedule spot caused by Lewis Cass' departure with 4A South Bend Washington at Hamilton Heights.

Oct. 6

South Bend Washington 4A

7:30 pm

It looks like West Lafayette has snagged TippValley to fill in their schedule for that opening too.

[Fballfan15]

Tipton has added Tippy Valley as well. 

[Gipper]

Pretty weak and selfish of what LC did.   Not only did they take their ball and run with it, they left other schools scrambling to find a replacement, and by the looks of it, a long ride must be endured.  West Lafayette to Tippy Valley isn't exactly next door, nor is HH to South Bend.

[MarshallCounty]

4 hours ago, Gipper said:

Pretty weak and selfish of what LC did.   Not only did they take their ball and run with it, they left other schools scrambling to find a replacement, and by the looks of it, a long ride must be endured.  West Lafayette to Tippy Valley isn't exactly next door, nor is HH to South Bend.

Improvise, adapt, overcome.