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swordfish

US Women's Soccer Team - World Cup

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Just now, swordfish said:

I agree Muda, the simple action is not a political statement at least she stands - So we should just overlook her saying "My national anthem protests are an ‘F you’ to Trump administration" last month?

https://nypost.com/2019/05/14/megan-rapinoe-my-national-anthem-protests-are-an-f-you-to-trump-administration/

Freedom of speech.  Would you prefer Ms. Rapinoe to be a perfectly good little automaton,  standing and singing the national anthem when requested in order to show glory to the state?  Did she makes these statement while on the field of competition?

 

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15 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Freedom of speech.  Would you prefer Ms. Rapinoe to be a perfectly good little automaton,  standing and singing the national anthem when requested in order to show glory to the state?  Did she makes these statement while on the field of competition?

 

Literally cannot roll my eyes any deeper Muda....Again - her actions on the field are not political in my eyes, nor do I really care.  She stood during the anthem - good for her.  And yes - she did use her freedom of speech in May to make her political point surrounding her observance of the National Anthem during the World Cup.  Again - no big deal - her choice.   My point is cater to and attempt to build your market if you want to expand your marketshare.  Besides - who is saying she isn't catering to her market, maybe she is?  

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3 minutes ago, swordfish said:

Literally cannot roll my eyes any deeper Muda....Again - her actions on the field are not political in my eyes, nor do I really care.  She stood during the anthem - good for her.  And yes - she did use her freedom of speech in May to make her political point surrounding her observance of the National Anthem during the World Cup.  Again - no big deal - her choice.   My point is cater to and attempt to build your market if you want to expand your marketshare.  Besides - who is saying she isn't catering to her market, maybe she is?  

Perhaps Ms. Rapinoe doesn't really care about "expanding your marketshare",  especially if doing so will violate her personal principals.   As arguably one of the best players on the U.S. team should she be reprimanded or possibly removed from the team if her statements and actions hinder the possible expansion of said market share?

 

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3 hours ago, TrojanDad said:

I'm not sure comparing a NFL player with an athlete wearing USA on their jersey is completely apples to apples.  Her comments as to why she won't place her hand over her heart speaks more loudly to me. She's made this personal and political about a single administration, and no matter one's feelings about current administrations, the USA is way bigger.

I wonder if she's as vocal speaking out against many of the countries the USA will play that treat their citizens with far less freedoms and dignity.  

 

The problem with this statement is that she was protesting back during the Obama administration; as was Kaepernick.  She was kneeling back in 2016 BEFORE said "single" administration was even in place or might even be in place.  Also, the fact that she doesn't sing the anthem is based on the fact that U.S. Soccer implemented a rule that forbid players from kneeling.  With that avenue taken away, she still protests ... just in the same silence that she did before, but without a knee.

3 hours ago, Impartial_Observer said:

I know the words, but I spare the people around me by not singing them.

Not a good song for a baritone. 

I hear you  ... figuratively. 😃

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1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

Perhaps Ms. Rapinoe doesn't really care about "expanding your The sport's  marketshare",  especially if doing so will violate her personal principals.   Agreed, she may not.  As arguably one of the best players on the U.S. team should she be reprimanded or possibly removed from the team if her statements and actions hinder the possible expansion of said market share?  That would be up to the women's league on the one hand (SF doesn't watch soccer, so I couldn't tell you what if any protests she may perform), but her actual on the field actions of following the rules and standing with her team in the Worlds competition I think are enough to sufficiently quell any real consequences.

 

SF doesn't sing the National Anthem either - My protest is that my public education wasn't sufficient enough to give me the pipes to be able to even sound close to the proper tune, even (when I did sing) getting dirty looks from the other members of the crowd I was in.......So in protest I just mouth the words......I sound better that way, Mrs. SF approves......

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20 hours ago, swordfish said:

 

Back to the thread - the gals demanding equal to men pay to play soccer need to focus on ways to increase their audience to the size of the men's league.  

 

11 hours ago, Irishman said:

That said, I also think for some reason, advertisers shy away from the women's team and players; even after they won the cup in the US many years ago, those players had endeared themselves on the American public; but little to no windfall resulted. The lack of equity is definitely a thing; always has been, always will be. It is rare to see the best female athletes make the big bucks in advertising. How many titles did Serena Williams have to win before landing the kinds of dollars the top male athletes get?
since this is Indiana, watch the Janet Guthrie story that ESPN did for 303 for 30. It is a fascinating story to watch. It never seemed she was as competitive as she was, but the obstacles were many, and there is no doubt she belonged in the mix of the top drivers of that time; but she kept getting the door slammed in her face.

 

US Women's Soccer has the numbers on their side, but that's not making the difference.  For example, in 2015, US Women's soccer produced more revenue than US men's soccer.  The 2015 team hold the top spot for the largest viewership of a soccer match in the US by male or female teams with their FIFA Women's World Cup Finals match against Japan.  The second largest audience in the US was the 2014 FIFA World Cup Final, but that was between Argentina and Germany ... not the US men's team.  The women's game this past week against Thailand garnered more viewers on an English-language broadcast than any game since last year's men's World Cup Final ... and again, that game didn't include the US Men's team.

Arguably, especially from a casual fan perspective, the women's team and its players probably have more recognition on the street than the men's team.  The men's largest World Cup game victories are both 3-0 and came back in 1930 ... when it had its best showing at a World Cup with a 3rd place finish.  Folks that remember those are certainly not pitching in on the revenue in stadiums nowadays at 89.  In the last 20 years, looking at the big awards that get world recognition, the US women's team has three Olympic gold medals and a silver medal.  It also has two World Cup 3rd place finishes, a 2nd place finish, and two World Cups.  In the history of the FIFA Women's World Cup, the women's team has received in medal in every one.  In that same time, the men's team has mustered a 4th place finish at the 2000 Olympics and an 8th place finish at the 2002 World Cup.

If the issue is about increasing audience share, I'm not sure what more you could ask the women's team to do; especially compared to their male counterparts.  The issue of stadium attendance may also end up being less of a point too in the overall revenues too.  There was an article that came out last year that talked about the revenue generation of TV vs. in-person attendance and, in the Premier League, that over half the teams would have made before-tax profits even they played their entire season in front of an empty stadium.  Granted, there's something to be said about watching soccer on TV with a packed house, but there's the realization in this age that venues outside of the physical are a new frontier.   I'll get a chance to ask additional questions as my class here in Madrid will be getting a business lecture regarding Real Madrid and then heading out to the stadium to look at the tech there.  Had some stuff a couple years ago with the guy who developed Real Madrid's e-commerce and social media models.  The money is way beyond the ticket.

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Another observation about the games in general. I see that female players do get hurt, but they don't act like they are on their death bed and wait for some miracle spray to be a cure for them. The ladies just get back up and play. Almost saw a fight in the England Argentina match....great stuff.

Sorry IO, but you know us loser teachers are left with little to do on our Summer vacations. 😄

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1 hour ago, Irishman said:

Sorry IO, but you know us loser teachers are left with little to do on our Summer vacations. 😄

But soccer....C’mon man!

 

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I have watched the men’s World Cup. I have noticed in these games it is very common for players to sing their country’s NA. I haven’t watched the ladies WC matches so I do not know if it is common to sing the NA. 

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On 6/14/2019 at 12:40 PM, foxbat said:

The problem with this statement is that she was protesting back during the Obama administration; as was Kaepernick.  She was kneeling back in 2016 BEFORE said "single" administration was even in place or might even be in place.  Also, the fact that she doesn't sing the anthem is based on the fact that U.S. Soccer implemented a rule that forbid players from kneeling.  With that avenue taken away, she still protests ... just in the same silence that she did before, but without a knee.

I hear you  ... figuratively. 😃

You need to spend some time reading her quotes about the current administration. Easy to find. There is no problem with my post.  

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On 6/14/2019 at 12:40 PM, foxbat said:

The problem with this statement is that she was protesting back during the Obama administration; as was Kaepernick.  She was kneeling back in 2016 BEFORE said "single" administration was even in place or might even be in place.  Also, the fact that she doesn't sing the anthem is based on the fact that U.S. Soccer implemented a rule that forbid players from kneeling.  With that avenue taken away, she still protests ... just in the same silence that she did before, but without a knee.

I hear you  ... figuratively. 😃

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/05/15/uswnts-megan-rapinoe-says-shes-walking-protest-trump-administration/

Please tell me again where I got it all wrong...

 

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I have to say, the President’s tone in a lot of what he says has brought this on. Calling people sons of bitches is unacceptable from a President, while in close proximity to that time, a matter of days, he referred to many of the people carrying flags of enemies of this nation “fine people”.  There is also a laundry list of insults he has directed toward many people. So, I feel no empathy for anyone that Rapinoe has directed her comments toward. It is not like she is holding up the middle finger during the anthem. The fact is there has never been a President of this country who has even come close to the level of pettiness that Trump has. 

Let's add to it the number of resignations that have occurred in this administration, and the things the President has said about them. We are not even through the first term, and there is what? Maybe a handful of people left? Now, let's talk about the indictments, convictions and guilty pleas.  Only the best people, right? lol

I have to ask, at one point do people start waking up to what is really happening? and stop making excuses or even ignoring this crapshow?

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14 hours ago, TrojanDad said:

Please tell me again where I got it all wrong...

You didn't get it ALL wrong. You just left a lot out. 

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15 hours ago, TrojanDad said:

First, I didn't say you got it all wrong ... that's your interpretation and probably why you are focused on a singular aspect.  You said it's about a single administration and she has clearly been protesting, on the same issue and in the same circumstance ... national anthem ... over the last two administrations.  The fact that she's currently protesting the Trump administration, doesn't make it singular.

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1 hour ago, foxbat said:

First, I didn't say you got it all wrong ... that's your interpretation and probably why you are focused on a singular aspect.  You said it's about a single administration and she has clearly been protesting, on the same issue and in the same circumstance ... national anthem ... over the last two administrations.  The fact that she's currently protesting the Trump administration, doesn't make it singular.

Its not an interpretation.  I know Rapinoe's history and where she started with this.  I don't care that her protest started during the Obama administration.  (not 100% sure that is accurate)  Unless you can show me where she has stated that a part of her protest is against Obama and his administration, then she has certainly expanded her cause to now include the Trump administration.  And that is documented by her via the Washington Post.  

I stated that it was against a singular administration. not a singular cause for her protest.  Big difference.  Go back and read my original post.  

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13 hours ago, Irishman said:

I have to say, the President’s tone in a lot of what he says has brought this on. Calling people sons of bitches is unacceptable from a President, while in close proximity to that time, a matter of days, he referred to many of the people carrying flags of enemies of this nation “fine people”.  There is also a laundry list of insults he has directed toward many people. So, I feel no empathy for anyone that Rapinoe has directed her comments toward. It is not like she is holding up the middle finger during the anthem. The fact is there has never been a President of this country who has even come close to the level of pettiness that Trump has. 

Let's add to it the number of resignations that have occurred in this administration, and the things the President has said about them. We are not even through the first term, and there is what? Maybe a handful of people left? Now, let's talk about the indictments, convictions and guilty pleas.  Only the best people, right? lol

I have to ask, at one point do people start waking up to what is really happening? and stop making excuses or even ignoring this crapshow?

So one person's inappropriate behavior on an issue justifies another person's inappropriate behavior.  Gotcha

Many of believe crapshows were going on well before this current administration

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23 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

So one person's inappropriate behavior on an issue justifies another person's inappropriate behavior.  Gotcha

Many of believe crapshows were going on well before this current administration

That’s odd. You don’t mention a single thing about the one person’s behavior until now? I have never seen you spend an ounce of time here criticizing the President’s behavior. But you focus so much on the other? Interesting

You have a higher standard of expectation for a female soccer player than you do the President? Also interesting

Never said a thing about previous administrations. Buuuuuut, if you want to go there, let’s do it. As I said, it is a big reason why Rapinoe is even a topic of conversation. The kneeling at the anthem was going to be a thing of the past, well on its way of disappearing....untilllllllllll...

Never have seen a president react the way this one does to critics. I don’t recall the very high number of resignations/firings in one administration, especially in the short time span they have occurred. I also don’t recall the number of convictions or indictments in other administrations. 

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55 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

Its not an interpretation.  I know Rapinoe's history and where she started with this.  I don't care that her protest started during the Obama administration.  (not 100% sure that is accurate)  Unless you can show me where she has stated that a part of her protest is against Obama and his administration, then she has certainly expanded her cause to now include the Trump administration.  And that is documented by her via the Washington Post.  

I stated that it was against a singular administration. not a singular cause for her protest.  Big difference.  Go back and read my original post.  

You say you know Rapinoe's history and then claim that you aren't 100% sure that it's accurate that she started her national anthem during the Obama administration.  Which one is it?  You say that her history is easy to find, but claim that you aren't quite sure when she started.  When she started is very much so out there.  And the fact that she was White, female, and in a sport other than football made it even more the story when it occurred.  

https://sports.yahoo.com/megan-rapinoe-national-anthem-sing-us-soccer-world-cup-211549494.html

FTA:

For Rapinoe, the anthem is a “somber moment” for a “peaceful protest” of inequality and injustice throughout the United States.

It’s inequality and injustice she has been aware of for years now, even as she proudly sang the anthem prior to the summer of 2016. But that summer, she had what she calls an “awakening.” She was “very much inspired” by Colin Kaepernick and his protest of racial injustice and police brutality.

Around that time, “the whole meaning of the anthem changed dramatically for me,” Rapinoe told Yahoo Sports. And she came to a realization: “I need to do something.”

So, days after Kaepernick first dropped to a knee, Rapinoe did as well.

...

As she wrote weeks after she first knelt, her protest was about "over-policing" and "racial profiling," about "ensur[ing] that freedom is afforded to everyone in this country."

Her choice to not sing the anthem is essentially an extension of that. U.S. Soccer eventually adopted a rule prohibiting players from kneeling before national team games. Rapinoe, who calls the rule “cowardly” and “backwards,” now clasps her hands behind her back and stares straight ahead, expressionless, instead.

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3 hours ago, foxbat said:

You say you know Rapinoe's history and then claim that you aren't 100% sure that it's accurate that she started her national anthem during the Obama administration.  Which one is it?  You say that her history is easy to find, but claim that you aren't quite sure when she started.  When she started is very much so out there.  And the fact that she was White, female, and in a sport other than football made it even more the story when it occurred.  

https://sports.yahoo.com/megan-rapinoe-national-anthem-sing-us-soccer-world-cup-211549494.html

FTA:

For Rapinoe, the anthem is a “somber moment” for a “peaceful protest” of inequality and injustice throughout the United States.

It’s inequality and injustice she has been aware of for years now, even as she proudly sang the anthem prior to the summer of 2016. But that summer, she had what she calls an “awakening.” She was “very much inspired” by Colin Kaepernick and his protest of racial injustice and police brutality.

Around that time, “the whole meaning of the anthem changed dramatically for me,” Rapinoe told Yahoo Sports. And she came to a realization: “I need to do something.”

So, days after Kaepernick first dropped to a knee, Rapinoe did as well.

...

As she wrote weeks after she first knelt, her protest was about "over-policing" and "racial profiling," about "ensur[ing] that freedom is afforded to everyone in this country."

Her choice to not sing the anthem is essentially an extension of that. U.S. Soccer eventually adopted a rule prohibiting players from kneeling before national team games. Rapinoe, who calls the rule “cowardly” and “backwards,” now clasps her hands behind her back and stares straight ahead, expressionless, instead.

Yes, I know why she started her protest; no I don’t know the exact date. Sorry. But thanks once again for the lengthy response. 

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3 hours ago, Irishman said:

That’s odd. You don’t mention a single thing about the one person’s behavior until now? I have never seen you spend an ounce of time here criticizing the President’s behavior. But you focus so much on the other? Interesting

You have a higher standard of expectation for a female soccer player than you do the President? Also interesting

Never said a thing about previous administrations. Buuuuuut, if you want to go there, let’s do it. As I said, it is a big reason why Rapinoe is even a topic of conversation. The kneeling at the anthem was going to be a thing of the past, well on its way of disappearing....untilllllllllll...

Never have seen a president react the way this one does to critics. I don’t recall the very high number of resignations/firings in one administration, especially in the short time span they have occurred. I also don’t recall the number of convictions or indictments in other administrations. 

I think I have stated in the past I don’t care much for his use of Twitter. 

That being said, I believe when someone wears USA on their jersey, that name is bigger than their personal politics. Not asking you or anyone else to believe or feel the way I do. Please understand, I don’t care what you think of my beliefs. In the spirit of inclusion, you can accept them or not. Your call. Doesn’t impact me one way or the other. 

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5 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

Yes, I know why she started her protest; no I don’t know the exact date. Sorry. But thanks once again for the lengthy response. 

The date is actually important in supporting my original response to you.  

 

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53 minutes ago, foxbat said:

The date is actually important in supporting my original response to you.  

 

Thank you for your brevity

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OK - so there is a member of the Women's Soccer team that is "protesting" in her own way, yet abiding by the rules of the US Soccer Federation, let's move on.

Here's the crux of the matter - SF's first post in the thread may have been incorrect.  According to the Wall Street Journal - Women's soccer ACTUALLY out-earned men's soccer.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-womens-soccer-games-out-earned-mens-games-11560765600

PARIS—In the three years after the U.S. women’s soccer team won the 2015 World Cup, U.S. women’s games generated more total revenue than U.S. men’s games, according to audited financial reports from the U.S. Soccer Federation.

The ability of the women’s team to generate gate revenues that equals or exceeds the men’s team is an important battleground in the U.S. women’s March 8 gender-discrimination lawsuit against the federation. In the suit, all 28 members of the U.S. women’s national team player pool allege U.S. Soccer has paid them less than the men’s team, along with denying them equal playing, training and travel conditions and promoting their games less.

U.S. Soccer has made revenue generation a key part of its defense. In U.S. Soccer’s May 6 legal response to the suit, the federation said the men’s and women’s teams are separate organizations with separate collective-bargaining agreements. It said that any alleged pay differential between the men’s and women’s teams is “based on differences in the aggregate revenue generated by the different teams and/or any other factor other than sex.”

But U.S. Soccer’s numbers show that while men’s games used to generate millions more than women’s games, in recent years the gap in revenue all but disappeared.

From 2016-2018, women’s games generated about $50.8 million in revenue compared with $49.9 million for the men, according to U.S. soccer’s audited financial statements. In 2016, the year after the World Cup, the women generated $1.9 million more than the men. Game revenues are made up mostly of ticket sales. In the last two years, at least, the men’s tally includes appearance fees that opposing teams pay the U.S. for games.

“The event revenue from the USWNT demonstrates the potential that can be realized when investment is made,” said Becca Roux, executive director of the U.S. women’s national team’s players association. “While there is still a long way to go, I applaud U.S. Soccer, their partners, and our partners for the new marketing initiatives over the past couple of years. I hope it serves as a case study and example for other federations around the world to emulate.”

U.S. Soccer declined to comment.

To be sure, ticket sales are only one revenue stream that the national teams help generate. U.S. Soccer brought in nearly $49 million in marketing and sponsorship revenue in 2018, nearly half of its $101 million operating revenue, according to federation records.

Marketing and sponsorship revenue includes the sale of broadcast rights for U.S. Soccer games and sponsorships sold to Budweiser, Nike and others.

That being the case - SF sees the point of the women's fight here.  If they are contributing same or even more revenue than the men's squad, then absolutely SF can agree they should be paid as well.

 

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18 hours ago, foxbat said:

The date is actually important in supporting my original response to you.  

 

Perhaps to you....it wasn't to me, as I never stated the current administration was her ONLY reason for protest.  But unless you can show me differently, the current administration (and not the one prior) is one of her reasons for her current protest.  Or perhaps it was a case of MSM getting it wrong...again.

You made that assumption and then started it down that rabbit hole.  Didn't need to go there.  

Perhaps you feel it's ok for USA athletes to protest their country while representing them....I don't.  But to each his own.

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