Stink at Indian Creek

[Bash Riprock]

37 minutes ago, tango said:

In previous articles, Doyle cites CRP / court decisions where these kinds of findings have been made.

 https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2021/02/23/ihsaa-transfer-process-under-fire-claims-bullying-being-unprofessional-indiana-eligibility-review/6751342002/

You may consider Doyle to be a "hack" but he's read transcripts of IHSAA appeal and CRP hearings. Have you?  

Wouldn't you expect a writer for a major city newspaper to check his sources?  If not, well, your standards are different than mine.

Doyel writes columns and so much of his work is based on his opinion...and he is paid to "stir things up".  If you don't already, follow him on Twitter/X.  I think you will see with many of his positions, he does NOT allow facts to stand in his way.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Bash Riprock

[temptation]

10 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Wouldn't you expect a writer for a major city newspaper to check his sources?  If not, well, your standards are different than mine.

Doyel writes columns and so much of his work is based on his opinion...and he is paid to "stir things up".  If you don't already, follow him on Twitter/X.  I think you will see with many of his positions, he does NOT allow facts to stand in his way.

“Emotionally charged journalism” is what I like to call it.

He’s right on this one (assuming the facts of the case are accurate) but loses credibility and legitimacy based on some of his previous “stories.”

”Thousands will die if we have fans at the Indianapolis 500 or play college football this fall.”

Enough said.

Edited September 7, 2023 by temptation

[BDGiant93]

30 minutes ago, temptation said:

“Emotionally charged journalism” is what I like to call it.

He’s right on this one (assuming the facts of the case are accurate) but loses credibility and legitimacy based on some of his previous “stories.”

”Thousands will die if we have fans at the Indianapolis 500 or play college football this fall.”

Enough said.

I don't disagree with you on Doyel but only to an extent.

He's paid as a columnist and not a journalist. He's paid to get reactions from people and to express his opinions. His facts, however, have to be sound. That's especially in a case like this one. Anything presented as fact has been vetted by someone above him, I'm sure. If it's not, that's a problem for him and for Gannett. 

I find Doyel to be an excellent writer when it comes to features. His column writing is grating. He goes back and says the same thing over and over again. He inserts "I" and "me" into his columns too much. I've never written for the outlets that he has, but I did have a cup of coffee at the IU School of Journalism (it was my minor). I know that was always frowned upon. 

But hey...it's 2023. 

Gregg cares deeply for what he writes about. I think that sometimes makes him go overboard.

[temptation]

8 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

I don't disagree with you on Doyel but only to an extent.

He's paid as a columnist and not a journalist. He's paid to get reactions from people and to express his opinions. His facts, however, have to be sound. That's especially in a case like this one. Anything presented as fact has been vetted by someone above him, I'm sure. If it's not, that's a problem for him and for Gannett. 

I find Doyel to be an excellent writer when it comes to features. His column writing is grating. He goes back and says the same thing over and over again. He inserts "I" and "me" into his columns too much. I've never written for the outlets that he has, but I did have a cup of coffee at the IU School of Journalism (it was my minor). I know that was always frowned upon. 

But hey...it's 2023. 

Gregg cares deeply for what he writes about. I think that sometimes makes him go overboard.

He better hope in this case it’s been fully vetted or he just committed career suicide…though I’m still awaiting an apology for his overboard Covid takes.

Edited September 7, 2023 by temptation

[btownqbcoach1]

18 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

I don't disagree with you on Doyel but only to an extent.

He's paid as a columnist and not a journalist. He's paid to get reactions from people and to express his opinions. His facts, however, have to be sound. That's especially in a case like this one. Anything presented as fact has been vetted by someone above him, I'm sure. If it's not, that's a problem for him and for Gannett. 

I find Doyel to be an excellent writer when it comes to features. His column writing is grating. He goes back and says the same thing over and over again. He inserts "I" and "me" into his columns too much. I've never written for the outlets that he has, but I did have a cup of coffee at the IU School of Journalism (it was my minor). I know that was always frowned upon. 

But hey...it's 2023. 

Gregg cares deeply for what he writes about. I think that sometimes makes him go overboard.

Yeah, I don't trust any of them. 

"vetted by someone above him" but that person still has an agenda, as well. They all do. 

Maybe we don't see it in this exact article, but Doyel and others can kick rocks. 

58 minutes ago, temptation said:

“Emotionally charged journalism” is what I like to call it.

He’s right on this one (assuming the facts of the case are accurate) but loses credibility and legitimacy based on some of his previous “stories.”

”Thousands will die if we have fans at the Indianapolis 500 or play college football this fall.”

Enough said.

Then he came after Dungy. He's a bum. 

[Grover]

14 minutes ago, temptation said:

He better hope in this case it’s been fully vetted or he just committed career suicide…though I’m still awaiting an apology for his overboard Covid takes.

If the Star had any integrity it might be suicide. 

[BDGiant93]

2 minutes ago, Grover said:

If the Star had any integrity it might be suicide. 

Kyle Neddenriep is one of the best people in sports media. He's one of the best writers they have there in any department. He has tremendous integrity.

[Footballking16]

23 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

He's paid as a columnist and not a journalist. He's paid to get reactions from people and to express his opinions. His facts, however, have to be sound. That's especially in a case like this one. Anything presented as fact has been vetted by someone above him, I'm sure. If it's not, that's a problem for him and for Gannett. 

There's still a code of ethics in Journalism that need to be followed (or at least there used to be and now a reason why print media sucks) and I'm not so sure that's a concern of Doyel or Gannett (perhaps why they're tanking). There's a a lot of dumb people out there who believe everything they read (I've been guilty a time or two especially in my younger years) and guys like Doyel have made a great living off these types of people. 

[BDGiant93]

Just now, Footballking16 said:

There's still a code of ethics in Journalism that need to be followed (or at least there used to be and now a reason why print media sucks) and I'm not so sure that's a concern of Doyel or Gannett (perhaps why they're tanking). There's a a lot of dumb people out there who believe everything they read (I've been guilty a time or two especially in my younger years) and guys like Doyel have made a great living off these types of people. 

There is, but opinion writing is not the same as news writing. He's very definitely a columnist. 

Someone like Neddenriep occasionally expresses an opinion (mostly on social media) but most generally writes straight news or feature stuff (and does it very well).

[btownqbcoach1]

7 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

Kyle Neddenriep is one of the best people in sports media. He's one of the best writers they have there in any department. He has tremendous integrity.

He's very good. 

[Bash Riprock]

40 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

I don't disagree with you on Doyel but only to an extent.

He's paid as a columnist and not a journalist. He's paid to get reactions from people and to express his opinions. His facts, however, have to be sound. That's especially in a case like this one. Anything presented as fact has been vetted by someone above him, I'm sure. If it's not, that's a problem for him and for Gannett. 

I find Doyel to be an excellent writer when it comes to features. His column writing is grating. He goes back and says the same thing over and over again. He inserts "I" and "me" into his columns too much. I've never written for the outlets that he has, but I did have a cup of coffee at the IU School of Journalism (it was my minor). I know that was always frowned upon. 

But hey...it's 2023. 

Gregg cares deeply for what he writes about. I think that sometimes makes him go overboard.

You and I agree on some of your points and disagree on others in regards to Doyel.

A few years back, he left sports to talk about a Civil War memorial being moved out of Garfield Park.  The memorial was for Confederate dead that lost their lives while in a Union prison camp here in Indy.  I am not about arguing for or against the removal.  But Doyel jumped in with his policial views and made statements (to include about his own family ancestory) that was flat out generalizing and stereotyping people on one one side of the spectrum that were misguided and in some cases historically incorrect.  

I know what a columnist is....and I also know that one should attempt to balance their personal views and be largely accurate when they make statements in support of their  positions.  I have seem him miss that boat time and time again on social media, and he doesn't care....he has a view and others be damned if they don't agree.  He's caustic and will argue to win no matter the facts or the costs.  I will never buy an edition of the IndyStar while he's employed.

[Muda69]

22 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

Kyle Neddenriep is one of the best people in sports media. He's one of the best writers they have there in any department. He has tremendous integrity.

I own a copy of Mr. Neddenriep's book on historic Indiana high school gyms.  It's a great book.

[Rodney]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

“Emotionally charged journalism” is what I like to call it.

He’s right on this one (assuming the facts of the case are accurate) but loses credibility and legitimacy based on some of his previous “stories.”

”Thousands will die if we have fans at the Indianapolis 500 or play college football this fall.”

Enough said.

To be fair, I go the 500 every year, and I almost die every year

[Footballking16]

20 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

There is, but opinion writing is not the same as news writing. He's very definitely a columnist. 

Someone like Neddenriep occasionally expresses an opinion (mostly on social media) but most generally writes straight news or feature stuff (and does it very well).

I know the difference between a columnist and news writer. Most columnists, well the good ones at least, will write opinionated pieces that have been researched to a degree to which an educated opinion can be formed. Not saying this isn't true for this particular piece, but Doyel is notorious for writing hit pieces and making over-sensationalized comments for the simple sake of gaslighting and virtue-signaling, despite not knowing what the hell he's talking about. 

[BDGiant93]

5 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

I know the difference between a columnist and news writer. Most columnists, well the good ones at least, will write opinionated pieces that have been researched to a degree to which an educated opinion can be formed. Not saying this isn't true for this particular piece, but Doyel is notorious for writing hit pieces and making over-sensationalized comments for the simple sake of gaslighting and virtue-signaling, despite not knowing what the hell he's talking about. 

I don't like Doyel's style at all as a columnist, but that's what columnists do. It's kind of like a shock jock in radio or even like a right-wing talker. Obviously, Gregg swings the other way politically. 

I'm glad that you know the difference because many people don't. That's part of the problem we have with the way people look at the news media today. There are too many flamethrowers and people who are less savvy than you don't know what's fact and what's not. (This is a general comment)

I stand on my Doyel opinion. He's probably liked at the Star because he gets engagement. He can write some wonderful, beautiful pieces that really tug on your emotions when he swings more towards the feature side. He can also write some grating pieces that really are hard for me to read because he inserts himself into the story more than I'd like. Case-in-point, his beef with McLaren IndyCar. Oy! 

On this article, I think it's an awful look for Indian Creek, and, frankly for the IHSAA. 

[BDGiant93]

41 minutes ago, btownqbcoach1 said:

He's very good. 

His piece on the Lawrence Central Sectional a few years ago at the start of the pandemic was unbelievable and should have won every journalism prize. I don't know how much time went into this and how much of an emotional toll it must have taken. 

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/high-school/2020/04/18/coronavirus-indiana-lawrence-central-basketball-sectional-10/5145870002/

[Footballking16]

1 minute ago, BDGiant93 said:

On this article, I think it's an awful look for Indian Creek, and, frankly for the IHSAA.

But to the point, that's exactly WHAT Doyel does. The story he has written will lead the reader to believe there is absolutely no other side to the story and anyone who isn't on board is an idiot. 

I've read the article, if what Doyel is saying is 100% true, I would agree, this a terrible look for the IHSAA and Indian Creek. I don't know anything other than what Doyel has written and it would be unfair for me to judge otherwise. However, I've been around long enough to know that something this emotionally charged has two sides for Indian Creek and the IHSAA to come to the decision they did. And I'm not so sure Doyel is sharing it. And why would he?

[BDGiant93]

Just now, Footballking16 said:

But to the point, that's exactly WHAT Doyel does. The story he has written will lead the reader to believe there is absolutely no other side to the story and anyone who isn't on board is an idiot. 

I've read the article, if what Doyel is saying is 100% true, I would agree, this a terrible look for the IHSAA and Indian Creek. I don't know anything other than what Doyel has written and it would be unfair for me to judge otherwise. However, I've been around long enough to know that something this emotionally charged has two sides for Indian Creek and the IHSAA to come to the decision they did. And I'm not so sure Doyel is sharing it. And why would he?

I don't want to start debating journalism, but he did give Indian Creek a chance to respond (included the principal's email). He also quoted Paul Neidig in the story from the IHSAA's side. 

[Footballking16]

Just now, BDGiant93 said:

I don't want to start debating journalism, but he did give Indian Creek a chance to respond (included the principal's email). He also quoted Paul Neidig in the story from the IHSAA's side. 

Do you think it’s partially due to the fact the Indy Star has a columnist reporting the story and not somebody there to actually report all the facts? Do you really think Doyel cares what Indian Creek has to say? Was it really going to change his mind?

[Grover]

1 hour ago, BDGiant93 said:

Kyle Neddenriep is one of the best people in sports media. He's one of the best writers they have there in any department. He has tremendous integrity.

Agreed.  And I'm guessing in private he would admit what I said.

[temptation]

29 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

I don't like Doyel's style at all as a columnist, but that's what columnists do. It's kind of like a shock jock in radio or even like a right-wing talker. Obviously, Gregg swings the other way politically. 

I'm glad that you know the difference because many people don't. That's part of the problem we have with the way people look at the news media today. There are too many flamethrowers and people who are less savvy than you don't know what's fact and what's not. (This is a general comment)

I stand on my Doyel opinion. He's probably liked at the Star because he gets engagement. He can write some wonderful, beautiful pieces that really tug on your emotions when he swings more towards the feature side. He can also write some grating pieces that really are hard for me to read because he inserts himself into the story more than I'd like. Case-in-point, his beef with McLaren IndyCar. Oy! 

On this article, I think it's an awful look for Indian Creek, and, frankly for the IHSAA. 

LOL.

[Grover]

22 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

I don't want to start debating journalism, but he did give Indian Creek a chance to respond (included the principal's email). He also quoted Paul Neidig in the story from the IHSAA's side. 

That's where Doyel's lack of integrity is especially problematic.  I wouldn't talk with him either. 

[temptation]

9 minutes ago, Grover said:

That's where Doyel's lack of integrity is especially problematic.  I wouldn't talk with him either. 

This.

[tango]

41 minutes ago, Grover said:

That's where Doyel's lack of integrity is especially problematic.  I wouldn't talk with him either. 

No corporation administrator would talk to any reporter. The first thing an administrator would be told by a competent attorney is "do not make any public comments." It isn't rocket science. It has nothing to do with Doyle. 

The key facts in this case are undisputed: (1) assistant coach texts 15 year student; (2) parents get restraining order; (3) player transfers and wanted to play football his senior season; (4) Indian Creek refused to release player; and (5) IHSAA and CRP inexplicably side with school and screw student. It doesn't matter if Neddenriep wrote the article or Doyle. The point of the article that that once again the IHSAA chooses school over student.  

 

 

[Footballking16]

50 minutes ago, tango said:

No corporation administrator would talk to any reporter. The first thing an administrator would be told by a competent attorney is "do not make any public comments." It isn't rocket science. It has nothing to do with Doyle. 

The key facts in this case are undisputed: (1) assistant coach texts 15 year student; (2) parents get restraining order; (3) player transfers and wanted to play football his senior season; (4) Indian Creek refused to release player; and (5) IHSAA and CRP inexplicably side with school and screw student. It doesn't matter if Neddenriep wrote the article or Doyle. The point of the article that that once again the IHSAA chooses school over student.  

 

 

Feel like there’s an event between 3 and 4 that would likely make #5 make sense, or at least I would hope there is for the sake of the IHSAA, that isn’t conveyed in Doyle’s article.