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What 6A North team will now head South?


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With the IHSAA changing the rule from accumulating 3 points to 2 points to stay in a class, Fort Wayne Snider will now stay in Class 6A for the 2019 and 2020 seasons. This means Valparaiso will drop to class 5A starting next season. However, with the addition of Elkhart High School in the 2020 season, that now means Zionsville will drop to 5A in the 2020 season. Those 6A sectional alignments that came out a few months ago are up in the air (with the exception of Sectional 8, probably Sectional 7, and possibly Sectional 6).

The most obvious change will occur in Sectional 3, which will see the addition of Snider to Carroll and Homestead. Whether or not Warsaw or Noblesville stays with the Fort Wayne schools is yet to be seen. Warsaw makes the most sense, especially in the 2020 season once Elkhart joins 6A. But for the 2019 season, it almost makes the most sense to have Warsaw in Sectional 2 with Chesterton, Penn and Portage and then have them move to Sectional 3 in 2020 with the 3 Fort Wayne schools and have Elkhart take their spot in Sectional 2.

If this occurs, that moves Noblesville to Sectional 4... which would consist of Carmel, Fishers, Hamilton Southeastern and Westfield in 2019. In what would make the most sense, Carmel could just take Zionsville spot in Sectional 5 with Avon, Brownsburg and Pike. Would the IHSAA actually have the cojones to send the golden child Carmel to 6A South?!

How I see it (only listing sectionals that would see changes):

2019

2: Chesterton, Penn, Portage, Warsaw
3: Carroll, Homestead, Noblesville, Snider

2020

2: Chesterton, Elkhart, Penn, Portage
3: Carroll, Homestead, Snider, Warsaw
4: Fishers, Hamilton Southeastern, Noblesville, Westfield
5: Avon, Brownsburg, Carmel, Pike

Any other scenario would result in a complete overhaul of all sectional alignments (besides Sectional 8).

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19 minutes ago, CaptainHook said:

But I think you have it right.  Valpo will move to 5A in 2019 (although they also have enough TSF points to remain in 6A, which is interesting).  Consolidated Elkhart will move to 6A in 2020.  Which will kick Zionsville to 5A in 2020.

Valpo to 5A in 2020, correct?

Or did I miss something?

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17 minutes ago, CaptainHook said:

But I think you have it right.  Valpo will move to 5A in 2019 (although they also have enough TSF points to remain in 6A, which is interesting).  Consolidated Elkhart will move to 6A in 2020.  Which will kick Zionsville to 5A in 2020.

Valpo was 6A because of enrollment, not due to TSF. So, with Snider remaining up due to points accrued, Valpo would be the first team to drop to 5A because they are the smallest 6A school by enrollment, but not the smallest in 6A. (Columbus East moves up due to TSF, and now Snider remains up due to TSF.)

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1 minute ago, TransplantedPanther said:

Valpo was 6A because of enrollment, not due to TSF. So, with Snider remaining up due to points accrued, Valpo would be the first team to drop to 5A because they are the smallest 6A school by enrollment, but not the smallest in 6A. (Columbus East moves up due to TSF, and now Snider remains up due to TSF.)

Correct.  And I get it.  It's just interesting that Valpo actually has same number of TSF points as FWS.  But they will be the one moving down.

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16 minutes ago, DannEllenwood said:

Valpo to 5A in 2020, correct?

Or did I miss something?

Rumor has it since the IHSAA updated the required points to "stay up" a class from 3 points to just 2 points a few weeks ago, Snider will now STAY in 6A after winning 2 sectional titles in 2017 and 2018, and thus accruing the 2 points necessary to stay up a class.

Because of this, Valparaiso will now drop to 5A based on enrollment effective the 2019 season.

41 minutes ago, CaptainHook said:

Bedford North Lawrence will drop to 4A and Cathedral will move to 5A.

Lol start another topic for this information. This thread was created strictly to discuss the changes that will occur to 6A haha.

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See it is a cluster fudge. (But I didn't say fudge) make life easier and dump the success rule all together.  Put school by size. Get ride of the "every" school gets in. Only schools with winning records should make the tournament. 

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4 hours ago, Mebuck said:

See it is a cluster fudge. (But I didn't say fudge) make life easier and dump the success rule all together.  Put school by size. Get ride of the "every" school gets in. Only schools with winning records should make the tournament. 

It will NEVER happen. The number of schools in Indiana allow for all-in tournaments in EVERY sport. That's the way the IHSAA & most member schools like it.

High school sports are for the student athletes. They work very hard & deserve an opportunity in these tournaments.

If it was only winning records make the tournament, you would see many schools trying to schedule easy wins to start the season. Then it really would turn into a cluster fudge. 

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5 hours ago, slice60 said:

It will NEVER happen. The number of schools in Indiana allow for all-in tournaments in EVERY sport. That's the way the IHSAA & most member schools like it.

High school sports are for the student athletes. They work very hard & deserve an opportunity in these tournaments.

If it was only winning records make the tournament, you would see many schools trying to schedule easy wins to start the season. Then it really would turn into a cluster fudge. 

you are right

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7 hours ago, slice60 said:

It will NEVER happen. The number of schools in Indiana allow for all-in tournaments in EVERY sport. That's the way the IHSAA & most member schools like it.

High school sports are for the student athletes. They work very hard & deserve an opportunity in these tournaments.

If it was only winning records make the tournament, you would see many schools trying to schedule easy wins to start the season. Then it really would turn into a cluster fudge. 

Now correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't Illinois Michigan and Ohio do their tournaments that way? Indiana use to be that way back in the 1970s.

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1 hour ago, Mebuck said:

Now correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't Illinois Michigan and Ohio do their tournaments that way? Indiana use to be that way back in the 1970s.

# of schools with football in Illinois: 564

# of schools with football in Michigan: 556

# of schools with football in Ohio: 732

 

# of schools with football in Indiana: 338

 

Im sure these numbers are not exactly right as there has been consolidation and some schools stopped fielding teams....I pulled these numbers from max preps 

 

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5 hours ago, Mebuck said:

Now correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't Illinois Michigan and Ohio do their tournaments that way? Indiana use to be that way back in the 1970s.

Yes. The state football tournament was not an all-in tournament back then. Please don't even attempt to make the argument that the Points system (or whatever it was called) or the Cluster system was better than the current format. Those formats SUCKED. Worthy teams were left out when the tournament field was set.

The champion gets decided on the field instead of with a Points system or Sagarin ratings or Win-Loss criteria. So keep doing it. Indiana HS Football is  more high profile today than it was 40 years ago & the all-in tournament format has played a role in that. 

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6 hours ago, Mebuck said:

Now correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't Illinois Michigan and Ohio do their tournaments that way? Indiana use to be that way back in the 1970s.

Illinois has a 1.65 multiplier for non-boundaried schools AND a Success Factor.

Ohio has something called Competitive Balance which seems complicated. 

Seems like many public schools in Michigan are unhappy with the current structure. http://www.fairplayoffs.com/

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23 hours ago, slice60 said:

It will NEVER happen. The number of schools in Indiana allow for all-in tournaments in EVERY sport. That's the way the IHSAA & most member schools like it.

High school sports are for the student athletes. They work very hard & deserve an opportunity in these tournaments.

If it was only winning records make the tournament, you would see many schools trying to schedule easy wins to start the season. Then it really would turn into a cluster fudge. 

In 2009 Luers was 4-5 during the regular and ended up winning state. Keeping the best team in their class out of post season because of a losing record would be incredibly stupid.

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In 2014, LaPorte & Cathedral were both 4-5 in the regular season but both made the title game.

The tournament is working well. I don't understand why so many people around here want to blow it up. The Indiana HS Basketball tournament was easily the best HS sports event for generations & that was an all-in format.

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On 6/16/2019 at 8:28 PM, NLCTigerFan07 said:

With the IHSAA changing the rule from accumulating 3 points to 2 points to stay in a class, Fort Wayne Snider will now stay in Class 6A for the 2019 and 2020 seasons. This means Valparaiso will drop to class 5A starting next season. However, with the addition of Elkhart High School in the 2020 season, that now means Zionsville will drop to 5A in the 2020 season. Those 6A sectional alignments that came out a few months ago are up in the air (with the exception of Sectional 8, probably Sectional 7, and possibly Sectional 6).

The most obvious change will occur in Sectional 3, which will see the addition of Snider to Carroll and Homestead. Whether or not Warsaw or Noblesville stays with the Fort Wayne schools is yet to be seen. Warsaw makes the most sense, especially in the 2020 season once Elkhart joins 6A. But for the 2019 season, it almost makes the most sense to have Warsaw in Sectional 2 with Chesterton, Penn and Portage and then have them move to Sectional 3 in 2020 with the 3 Fort Wayne schools and have Elkhart take their spot in Sectional 2.

If this occurs, that moves Noblesville to Sectional 4... which would consist of Carmel, Fishers, Hamilton Southeastern and Westfield in 2019. In what would make the most sense, Carmel could just take Zionsville spot in Sectional 5 with Avon, Brownsburg and Pike. Would the IHSAA actually have the cojones to send the golden child Carmel to 6A South?!

How I see it (only listing sectionals that would see changes):

2019

2: Chesterton, Penn, Portage, Warsaw
3: Carroll, Homestead, Noblesville, Snider

2020

2: Chesterton, Elkhart, Penn, Portage
3: Carroll, Homestead, Snider, Warsaw
4: Fishers, Hamilton Southeastern, Noblesville, Westfield
5: Avon, Brownsburg, Carmel, Pike

Any other scenario would result in a complete overhaul of all sectional alignments (besides Sectional 8).

I doubt the IHSAA will move Carmel out if sectional 4 and risk not having two high profile Indy area schools in the title game. I could see them moving Fishers or HSE to 5 and keeping Carmel in #4. The best bets for North team this year has to be the usual suspects. Carmel and Penn as 1A & 1B, then either Snider & Westfield

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12 hours ago, psaboy said:

I doubt the IHSAA will move Carmel out if sectional 4 and risk not having two high profile Indy area schools in the title game. I could see them moving Fishers or HSE to 5 and keeping Carmel in #4. The best bets for North team this year has to be the usual suspects. Carmel and Penn as 1A & 1B, then either Snider & Westfield

The IHSAA won't do this. They'll keep Fishers & HSE together in a sectional, just like they do Perry Meridian and Southport. There's been a precedent set that they will keep Fishers & HSE together.

Now, they could very will move both schools south in 2020 and keep Carmel in the north, but you'd have to move a 2019 6A South team north. Maybe a reshuffling that would look like this for the 2020 season:

1: Crown Point, Lafayette Jeff, Lake Central, Merrillville
2: Chesterton, Elkhart, Penn, Portage
3: Carroll, Homestead, Snider, Warsaw
4: Carmel, Noblesville, North Central, Westfield
5: Avon, Ben Davis, Brownsburg, Pike
6: Perry Meridian, Southport, Tech, Warren Central
7: Fishers, Hamilton Southeastern, Lawrence Central, Lawrence North
8: Center Grove, Columbus East, Columbus North, Franklin Central

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