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2.0 Multiplier Required to Fix Lower Class Competitive Balance Inequities


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11 hours ago, OldschoolFB said:

Id suggest the public schools start emulating what these schools do in their feeder systems.  Stop de-emphasizing football, active recruit from “within your own hallways” sell the program to kids at all ages and especially early on and don’t expect State Titles immediately.  Give it 2-3 years and make the goals in years 1 and 2 more attainable than a State Title.  
You’re complaining about others success through hard work is sickening.  You told (or someone on the same page as you) said Mebuck offended a ton of people.  Well you offended me and at least as many as you’re claiming Me buck offended.  Why should everyone else in the State lay down and not succeed for your benefit?   I realize some schools have more resources and if that’s what you’re basing success on, make it the haves and the have not leagues combined with it being based on size.  Don’t like that idea? Then learn to build something to believe in and win because YOU worked and over came the odds as opposed to tearing everyone else down so YOU can win.  
If we used your logic, why are we stopping at the fairness of facilities?  Why not penalize highly athletic and talented players by only letting them play in 6A or 2 quarters?  Or if you have a great arm, you can’t play QB? 
if they idea sounds stupid, I agree with you, welcome to the common sense club.  If you like the idea, I hope you grow a pair and learn to fight no matter the odds and quit complaining about others being successful. 

Isn't this what the publics are, unintentionally, doing for the privates right now?

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After reading this entire thread, and may others like it in other places, and listening to the discussion in various areas, the one thing I never see or hear is a kid complaining about the “fairness” of the system. In this thread there isn’t one and there is only one actual coach who contributed (I’d tend to apply a multiplier of 1000x to an actual coaches input). This annual argument seems to be pushed mostly by 50+ year old men with dreams of being Al Bundy (respect to Polk High). It’s actually humorous to see them reach into their bags of “butwhatabout” to justify their argument of the day. 

The coach in this thread was right. Size of staff, years of experience in that staff, and consistency of the staff have more to do with a programs success than anything other than the number of kids in the program. I have watched my son (in another state) play in a youth program since he was 7 years old. Those youth programs dominated the other youth programs annually due to all of the items I mentioned above. In middle school, though, those numbers started to fall off. It was so bad that as a 6A (largest class) school, they could only get 40-45 kids to come out for football. There were just as many kids in the student section on Friday nights that could have helped that team. There are 4 kids from his age group who will play D1 football and only 1 of them played more than 2 years at that high school. The coaching staff had a severe “daddy ball” tilt and the school administration didn’t care enough to fire a consistently underperforming head coach.

The factors that matter: 1. Do the school Admin and community support the program. 2. Are there sufficient and qualified coaches with multiple years of tenure at that school 3. Is there a strong youth program 4. Do the kids in the school (not just the players) take pride in the product their school puts on the field weekly. (Oddly, all 4 of those have one thing in common: putting the kid first)

If you don’t have those things then kids who have dreams of being more than Al Bundy will leave and seek those opportunities elsewhere. Kids who don’t care will hang out in the stands. The rich will get richer (competitively speaking) and other teams will slide into obscurity. 

For everyone who complains about how unfair the system is I simply ask this: What are you doing, other than complaining on a message board, to change the situation at your favorite HS? If the answer is nothing then congrats, you are earning your results. Maybe pick up the phone, call the HS or youth program, volunteer some time, rally your buddies (if you have any) and go be part of the solution. Culture is contagious. Tradition doesn’t graduate. 

Have a great day!

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2 hours ago, Just a dad said:

After reading this entire thread, and may others like it in other places, and listening to the discussion in various areas, the one thing I never see or hear is a kid complaining about the “fairness” of the system. In this thread there isn’t one and there is only one actual coach who contributed (I’d tend to apply a multiplier of 1000x to an actual coaches input). This annual argument seems to be pushed mostly by 50+ year old men with dreams of being Al Bundy (respect to Polk High). It’s actually humorous to see them reach into their bags of “butwhatabout” to justify their argument of the day. 

The coach in this thread was right. Size of staff, years of experience in that staff, and consistency of the staff have more to do with a programs success than anything other than the number of kids in the program. I have watched my son (in another state) play in a youth program since he was 7 years old. Those youth programs dominated the other youth programs annually due to all of the items I mentioned above. In middle school, though, those numbers started to fall off. It was so bad that as a 6A (largest class) school, they could only get 40-45 kids to come out for football. There were just as many kids in the student section on Friday nights that could have helped that team. There are 4 kids from his age group who will play D1 football and only 1 of them played more than 2 years at that high school. The coaching staff had a severe “daddy ball” tilt and the school administration didn’t care enough to fire a consistently underperforming head coach.

The factors that matter: 1. Do the school Admin and community support the program. 2. Are there sufficient and qualified coaches with multiple years of tenure at that school 3. Is there a strong youth program 4. Do the kids in the school (not just the players) take pride in the product their school puts on the field weekly. (Oddly, all 4 of those have one thing in common: putting the kid first)

If you don’t have those things then kids who have dreams of being more than Al Bundy will leave and seek those opportunities elsewhere. Kids who don’t care will hang out in the stands. The rich will get richer (competitively speaking) and other teams will slide into obscurity. 

For everyone who complains about how unfair the system is I simply ask this: What are you doing, other than complaining on a message board, to change the situation at your favorite HS? If the answer is nothing then congrats, you are earning your results. Maybe pick up the phone, call the HS or youth program, volunteer some time, rally your buddies (if you have any) and go be part of the solution. Culture is contagious. Tradition doesn’t graduate. 

Have a great day!

This is possibly the most uninformed post I have ever read on GID in the past 10 years.

It makes some pretty silly assumptions:

1.  Folks complaining about the system don't come from programs with all the "Factors".  Admin, quality coaching staffs, facilities, school pride, youth and feeder programs.  These aren't things that are unique to publics or private schools.

2. Folks complaining about the system haven't put in the sweat equity over decades that the privates have because they are just lazy complainers.

3. Folks complaining about the systems are former Al Bundy's or keyboard warriors.

4. Just accept the crappy system and work harder....cuz that's what the Catholics do.

It's simple and I have highlighted it in detail multiple times, anyone who doesn't breath with their mouth open understands the issue.  Those who line their trophy cases as a result of an inequitable system will continue to choose to burry their heads in the sand.  

Now really focus on this paragraph and use that private school reading comprehension on this part: 

All things being equal with regard to "Factors", the student population homogeneity with regards to dead weight students is significantly different between even the least poor of publics and the average successful private.  Dead weight students being defined as those who are just there because the law says they have to be or only take a minimalist approach in meeting graduation requirements or participating in extracurriculars.

Congratulations on moving to Indianapolis and buying your child some rings.

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8 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

This is possibly the most uninformed post I have ever read on GID in the past 10 years.

It makes some pretty silly assumptions:

1.  Folks complaining about the system don't come from programs with all the "Factors".  Admin, quality coaching staffs, facilities, school pride, youth and feeder programs.  These aren't things that are unique to publics or private schools.

2. Folks complaining about the system haven't put in the sweat equity over decades that the privates have because they are just lazy complainers.

3. Folks complaining about the systems are former Al Bundy's or keyboard warriors.

4. Just accept the crappy system and work harder....cuz that's what the Catholics do.

It's simple and I have highlighted it in detail multiple times, anyone who doesn't breath with their mouth open understands the issue.  Those who line their trophy cases as a result of an inequitable system will continue to choose to burry their heads in the sand.  

Now really focus on this paragraph and use that private school reading comprehension on this part: 

All things being equal with regard to "Factors", the student population homogeneity with regards to dead weight students is significantly different between even the least poor of publics and the average successful private.  Dead weight students being defined as those who are just there because the law says they have to be or only take a minimalist approach in meeting graduation requirements or participating in extracurriculars.

Congratulations on moving to Indianapolis and buying your child some rings.

Go easy on the guy, he's just a dad.

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1 hour ago, Titan32 said:

This is possibly the most uninformed post I have ever read on GID in the past 10 years.

It makes some pretty silly assumptions:

1.  Folks complaining about the system don't come from programs with all the "Factors".  Admin, quality coaching staffs, facilities, school pride, youth and feeder programs.  These aren't things that are unique to publics or private schools.

2. Folks complaining about the system haven't put in the sweat equity over decades that the privates have because they are just lazy complainers.

3. Folks complaining about the systems are former Al Bundy's or keyboard warriors.

4. Just accept the crappy system and work harder....cuz that's what the Catholics do.

It's simple and I have highlighted it in detail multiple times, anyone who doesn't breath with their mouth open understands the issue.  Those who line their trophy cases as a result of an inequitable system will continue to choose to burry their heads in the sand.  

Now really focus on this paragraph and use that private school reading comprehension on this part: 

All things being equal with regard to "Factors", the student population homogeneity with regards to dead weight students is significantly different between even the least poor of publics and the average successful private.  Dead weight students being defined as those who are just there because the law says they have to be or only take a minimalist approach in meeting graduation requirements or participating in extracurriculars.

Congratulations on moving to Indianapolis and buying your child some rings.

Referring to any kid as “dead weight” is sort of a sad thing for an adult to do.  

1. Thank you for agreeing that those factors aren’t unique to private schools but they are unique to winning programs. 

2. Successful programs have community sweat equity and not just individual sweat equity. Again, look inward.

3. The Al Bundy quip was clearly a shot at everyone (including me) who participates in this tired conversation annually (lighten up, Francis!)

4. Either accept it or don’t but the constant complaining about “the Catholics” is also a bigoted take (refer back to “dead weight” for other examples). It shows that your issue isn’t really with “Private” schools, just “Private” schools attached to a religion or people who don’t meet your cultured standard of being important. 

Feel free to agree with me or not, I really don’t care. 

 

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27 minutes ago, Just a dad said:

Referring to any kid as “dead weight” is sort of a sad thing for an adult to do.  

1. Thank you for agreeing that those factors aren’t unique to private schools but they are unique to winning programs. 

2. Successful programs have community sweat equity and not just individual sweat equity. Again, look inward.

3. The Al Bundy quip was clearly a shot at everyone (including me) who participates in this tired conversation annually (lighten up, Francis!)

4. Either accept it or don’t but the constant complaining about “the Catholics” is also a bigoted take (refer back to “dead weight” for other examples). It shows that your issue isn’t really with “Private” schools, just “Private” schools attached to a religion or people who don’t meet your cultured standard of being important. 

Feel free to agree with me or not, I really don’t care. 

 

Apparently you do care LOL.  

Dead Weight is just a term used here among friends...but if my terminology is all you can take a swing at....strike 3.

1.  Winning programs are also victims of the IHSAA inequitable policies...but remember that winning and lining ones trophy cases with state titles via inequity are two different things.

2. Assuming again that folks complaining here don't have "community" sweat equity....you really have no idea.  In fact, I am willing to bet multiple communities are putting in more work than some that are taking advantage of the system. Probably more often than you think.  Small men use semantics to try and make points.

4. Nobody here is bigoted against Catholics...surely a nice catholic boy like yourself isn't that woke.

5.  I believe you are smart enough to know what the issue really is and that it is indeed an issue.

6.  Those rings were a bargain, keep kidding yourself that they were the result of you pitching in community sweat equity.  Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

 

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2 hours ago, Slobberknocker said:

Funny graduated from Ursuline High School a private college preparatory Roman Catholic high school in Youngstown, Ohio, and then as actor makes fun of public-school football.

 

 

Typically, when you see Ursuline for high schools, the top sport at the school is field hockey. :classic_smile:

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6 hours ago, Just a dad said:

After reading this entire thread, and may others like it in other places, and listening to the discussion in various areas, the one thing I never see or hear is a kid complaining about the “fairness” of the system. In this thread there isn’t one and there is only one actual coach who contributed (I’d tend to apply a multiplier of 1000x to an actual coaches input). This annual argument seems to be pushed mostly by 50+ year old men with dreams of being Al Bundy (respect to Polk High). It’s actually humorous to see them reach into their bags of “butwhatabout” to justify their argument of the day. 

The coach in this thread was right. Size of staff, years of experience in that staff, and consistency of the staff have more to do with a programs success than anything other than the number of kids in the program. I have watched my son (in another state) play in a youth program since he was 7 years old. Those youth programs dominated the other youth programs annually due to all of the items I mentioned above. In middle school, though, those numbers started to fall off. It was so bad that as a 6A (largest class) school, they could only get 40-45 kids to come out for football. There were just as many kids in the student section on Friday nights that could have helped that team. There are 4 kids from his age group who will play D1 football and only 1 of them played more than 2 years at that high school. The coaching staff had a severe “daddy ball” tilt and the school administration didn’t care enough to fire a consistently underperforming head coach.

The factors that matter: 1. Do the school Admin and community support the program. 2. Are there sufficient and qualified coaches with multiple years of tenure at that school 3. Is there a strong youth program 4. Do the kids in the school (not just the players) take pride in the product their school puts on the field weekly. (Oddly, all 4 of those have one thing in common: putting the kid first)

If you don’t have those things then kids who have dreams of being more than Al Bundy will leave and seek those opportunities elsewhere. Kids who don’t care will hang out in the stands. The rich will get richer (competitively speaking) and other teams will slide into obscurity. 

For everyone who complains about how unfair the system is I simply ask this: What are you doing, other than complaining on a message board, to change the situation at your favorite HS? If the answer is nothing then congrats, you are earning your results. Maybe pick up the phone, call the HS or youth program, volunteer some time, rally your buddies (if you have any) and go be part of the solution. Culture is contagious. Tradition doesn’t graduate. 

Have a great day!

100% correct!!

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1 hour ago, Titan32 said:

Apparently you do care LOL.  

Dead Weight is just a term used here among friends...but if my terminology is all you can take a swing at....strike 3.

1.  Winning programs are also victims of the IHSAA inequitable policies...but remember that winning and lining ones trophy cases with state titles via inequity are two different things.

2. Assuming again that folks complaining here don't have "community" sweat equity....you really have no idea.  In fact, I am willing to bet multiple communities are putting in more work than some that are taking advantage of the system. Probably more often than you think.  Small men use semantics to try and make points.

4. Nobody here is bigoted against Catholics...surely a nice catholic boy like yourself isn't that woke.

5.  I believe you are smart enough to know what the issue really is and that it is indeed an issue.

6.  Those rings were a bargain, keep kidding yourself that they were the result of you pitching in community sweat equity.  Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

 

There is a little pitching into the community they helps.  If you work with the kids as a parent early and often, it will make a difference but I understand your overall point.  
In regards to Catholics, don’t kid yourself, there are many people who don’t like them but i think it’s for far different reasons than athletics and I don’t believe it crosses over into athletics and if it did, it’s more they don’t like private schools. 
And just so you get where I’m coming from, I always enjoy your posts as they are well thought out and reasonable. 

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20 minutes ago, OldschoolFB said:

There is a little pitching into the community they helps.  If you work with the kids as a parent early and often, it will make a difference but I understand your overall point.  
In regards to Catholics, don’t kid yourself, there are many people who don’t like them but i think it’s for far different reasons than athletics and I don’t believe it crosses over into athletics and if it did, it’s more they don’t like private schools. 
And just so you get where I’m coming from, I always enjoy your posts as they are well thought out and reasonable. 

For sure...it's more about Private than "Catholics".  I should probably use the word "Private" more often.  It just so happens that in Indiana they are the bulk of our Private schools.  We are Public with a huge Catholic population.

The community pitching in is KEY and HUGE, or at least it has been for us.  My point was the he assumes the folks that complain about our current jacked up system don't have those things or they would be happy, and that simply isn't the case.

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19 hours ago, Grover said:

Oh come on.  This is fun to watch in the off season but isn't there actual football to be discussing right now?

You’re correct.  Let’s Goooo!!

 

4 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

For sure...it's more about Private than "Catholics".  I should probably use the word "Private" more often.  It just so happens that in Indiana they are the bulk of our Private schools.  We are Public with a huge Catholic population.

The community pitching in is KEY and HUGE, or at least it has been for us.  My point was the he assumes the folks that complain about our current jacked up system don't have those things or they would be happy, and that simply isn't the case.

Got it.  And 100% agree!!✊🏼👊🏼

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