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Those darn Jesuits are at it again: Archdiocese of Indianapolis cut ties with Brebeuf


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Catholic snubbing towards Brebeuf now extended to athletic teams:  https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/high-school/2019/08/14/brebeuf-jesuit-controversy-extends-girls-golf-cross-country-meets/2010928001/

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After having its status as a Catholic school revoked last month, Brebeuf Jesuit is feeling a ripple effect in athletics.

Brebeuf’s girls’ golf team was left out of the Guerin Catholic Invitational — formerly named the All-Catholic Invitational — on Aug. 5 at Guerin Catholic, a traditional season-opening event. Guerin Catholic won the event, which also included Bishop Chatard, Cardinal Ritter, Cathedral and Roncalli.

“Our reaction is we are disappointed,” said Mike Higginbotham, director of communications at Brebeuf. “We’re disappointed for our student-athletes that this happened.”

Guerin Catholic athletic director Ryan Davis said the intention was for Brebeuf to be part of the golf meet. But after talking it over with the other schools that are part of the Indianapolis Archdiocese — Chatard. Ritter, Cathedral and Roncalli — the decision was made to leave Brebeuf out of the event, along with the All-Catholic cross-country meet (also now called the Guerin Catholic Invitational) on Sept. 14 at Guerin.

“We felt like it was in the best interest of the meet not to have Brebeuf participate,” Davis said. “Out of respect for our bishop (Guerin serves the Diocese of Lafayette) and his relationship with the Indianapolis Archdiocese, we made the decision to not have Brebeuf in the meet. There was nothing explicitly said to us that those schools would not compete, but they might have a tough time explaining that they competed with Brebeuf in an all-Catholic meet.”

Brebeuf Jesuit, which receives no financial support from the archdiocese but had been a partner since 1962, received a decree last month that the archbishop would no longer formally recognize Brebeuf as a Catholic school.

....

Methinks the Archdiocese is putting the screws to Brebeuf where students, parents, and alumni will feel it the easiest, extracurricular athletics,  in the hopes these groups will pressure the Jesuits to changes their ways and come back into the fold.

 

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Muda, you've been played. The voucher program is not creating new competition for Indiana public schools. The vast majority of the schools getting voucher payments are, as you noted, Catholic and

Not if you truly believe the tax money goes with the child and not to some geographic entity like a "school district".   And you truly believe in the parent being able to choose where their child goes

Again Mr. Wabash82,.  my ultimate goal is the dissolution of government K-12 schools entirely.  If the voucher programs allow existing parents to now send their child(ren) to already existing Catholic

13 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Catholic snubbing towards Brebeuf now extended to athletic teams:  https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/high-school/2019/08/14/brebeuf-jesuit-controversy-extends-girls-golf-cross-country-meets/2010928001/

Methinks the Archdiocese is putting the screws to Brebeuf where students, parents, and alumni will feel it the easiest, extracurricular athletics,  in the hopes these groups will pressure the Jesuits to changes their ways and come back into the fold.

 

The Jesuits have been doing things their way for almost 500 years now. They’re certainly not going to change over this piddling dust up.

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12 hours ago, Irishman said:

Spineless move on the part of the Guerin AD. 

In a discussion with another Catholic AD a week or so ago, he alluded to the fact there could be some athletic ramifications from this situation which is sad. Politics has no place on the athletic field. 

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42 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

what's the big deal? The school was revoked of its Catholic status.  This was an all-Catholic invitation tournament.  

I get it you don't agree with the Indy Catholic church....but why is Guerin's AD spineless?  

People/organization's make decisions....there are ramifications.  Guessing there are very few all Catholic events, but I have zero problem with them inviting only Catholic schools to some athletic events.

I made my comment based on his quote. His concern was about the relationship the bishop in Lafayette had with the Archbishop in Indy. He made a decision based on an assumption without actually talking to the bishop. In fact even the Archbishop in Indy has not said anything about the Catholic schools competing against Brebeuf. 

As a Catholic myself, the notion that suddenly, Brebeuf is no longer Catholic just because the Archbishop says they cannot call themselves a Catholic school is ridiculous. 

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  • 3 months later...

An update on the litigation between the fired Cathedral teacher and the Archdiocese:  The Archdiocese is defending against the lawsuit partly on the basis that the secular courts have no jurisdiction to interfere with ""ecclesiastical" matters. Interesting.

https://www.theindianalawyer.com/articles/archdiocese-claiming-church-autonomy-in-defense-of-teacher-firing?utm_source=il-daily&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=2019-12-05

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5 minutes ago, Bobref said:

An update on the litigation between the fired Cathedral teacher and the Archdiocese:  The Archdiocese is defending against the lawsuit partly on the basis that the secular courts have no jurisdiction to interfere with ""ecclesiastical" matters. Interesting.

https://www.theindianalawyer.com/articles/archdiocese-claiming-church-autonomy-in-defense-of-teacher-firing?utm_source=il-daily&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=2019-12-05

Yes. Interesting.

FTA:

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In asserting church autonomy, the Archdiocese maintains federal and Indiana courts have found the judiciary cannot review or question church doctrines, practices and rules. 

That's a pretty broad brush.   Also I thought the word  "ecclesiastical"  had to do with Christian priests, pastors, etc.   Mr. Payne-Elliott was not ordained, IIRC.

 

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On 12/5/2019 at 12:40 PM, Bobref said:

An update on the litigation between the fired Cathedral teacher and the Archdiocese:  The Archdiocese is defending against the lawsuit partly on the basis that the secular courts have no jurisdiction to interfere with ""ecclesiastical" matters. Interesting.

https://www.theindianalawyer.com/articles/archdiocese-claiming-church-autonomy-in-defense-of-teacher-firing?utm_source=il-daily&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=2019-12-05

This is why churches need to be taxed.

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  • 9 months later...

And, in another twist:

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2020/09/09/attorney-general-brief-supports-archdiocese-lawsuit/5749813002/
 

Three amicus briefs were filed Tuesday with the Indiana Supreme Court, asking for the dismissal of a lawsuit brought against the Archdiocese of Indianapolis by a Cathedral High School teacher who was fired over his same-sex marriage. 

These briefs — filed by Indiana Attorney General Curtis Hill, the U.S. Department of Justice and a group of three law faculty from private religious universities — argue that the Constitutional rights of the church should prevent Joshua Payne-Elliot from being able to sue over for his dismissal from Cathedral, a Catholic high school.

“The suit should have been dismissed immediately under the First Amendment’s longstanding protections for church autonomy,” Hill said in his brief.

Last year, the archdiocese threatened to cut ties with Cathedral and Brebeuf Jesuit Preparatory School where Payne-Elliott and his husband respectively worked if the two remained employed at the schools.

Brebeuf decided to split with the archdiocese, but Cathedral fired Payne-Elliott.

Payne-Elliott filed the lawsuit against the archdiocese in July 2019. A month later the archdiocese filed its own court documents arguing for the lawsuit to be dismissed on grounds that as a religious institution it should not be subjected to secular court interference.

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However, Marion Superior Court Judge Stephen R. Heimann allowed the lawsuit to move forward, questioning whether the church is the “highest ecclesiastical authority” that can determine how Cathedral must handle employment dealings.

Hill's brief criticized Heimann for his ruling, saying the judge allowed his personal opinions on the archdiocese to influence his decision.

“The trial judge’s actions here improperly interjected judicial power into ecclesiastical matters, and this court should dismiss the case before the judiciary suffers further loss of esteem," Hill said.

All three briefs wrote in support of the church's argument that, under the church-autonomy doctrine, the courts should not interfere with religious law. 

The professors wrote that the case attempted to add secular input to what they said should be religious decisions, such as the archdiocese's power to decide the standards for a Catholic high school.

"There is no putting the genie back in the bottle after the courts have become excessively entangled in a religious controversy because they erred in failing to dismiss the case because of the church-autonomy doctrine," the professors' brief said.

The professors work at Notre Dame, Brigham Young University and Pepperdine.

The Department of Justice wrote that Payne-Elliot's lawsuit "attempts to penalize the Archbishop" for finding that a school's employment of someone in a same-sex marriage cannot align with Catholic teachings.

“There is no more fundamental constitutional principle on the proper relationship between church and state than that the government must leave religious decisions to religious organizations,” U.S. Attorney Josh Minkler for the Southern District of Indiana said in a press release.  

Payne-Elliott’s lawyer, Kathleen DeLaney, said Tuesday the briefs were filed well past their Aug. 17 deadline, which was one of the reasons she and her client planned to ask the state Supreme Court to refuse to consider them.

She said she was unsurprised by the Department of Justice brief because the organization had intervened in the case last fall when it was in the Marion Superior Court. 

Hill's brief, however, seems to DeLaney to go against his statutory duty as Attorney General to represent state officials.

"The judge has handled the case impartially without bias,” DeLaney said. “He has lived up to his duty as a judge. In my opinion, this is character assassination because the people on the other side of this case don’t like the way it’s going for them.”

DeLaney said the church is also using emergency filings in an attempt to bypass the normal trial process and bring the case straight to the Indiana Supreme Court. 

“If it really were an emergency, it was an emergency a year ago," DeLaney said. "And calling it an emergency now after they lost key rulings rings hollow.”

In addition, DeLaney said the archdiocese’s demands were interfering with the relationship between Payne-Elliott and his employer, as Cathedral renewed his contract three times while knowing about his relationship.

“Not every Catholic school, or member of the Catholic faith, for that matter," DeLaney said, "thinks that gay teachers shouldn’t be allowed in their schools.” 

DeLaney expects more legal briefs to be filed in the case this week. The deadline to respond to briefs is Monday.

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I am surprised to see that DeLaney has not mentioned (at least based on the article she did not) that the school receives tax dollars and should not be allowed to discriminate based on that. 

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7 hours ago, Irishman said:

I am surprised to see that DeLaney has not mentioned (at least based on the article she did not) that the school receives tax dollars and should not be allowed to discriminate based on that. 

It’s not quite that straightforward. Every private school receives governmental support in some way. Whether it’s busing, vouchers, police and fire protection, infrastructure, etc. The question is where to draw the line. This case, and others like the Montana case decided by SCOTUS this Summer, point out the tension between the First Amendment’s “Establishment” and “Free Exercise” clauses. 

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On 9/9/2020 at 6:44 PM, Irishman said:

I am surprised to see that DeLaney has not mentioned (at least based on the article she did not) that the school receives tax dollars and should not be allowed to discriminate based on that. 

 

On 9/10/2020 at 2:51 AM, Bobref said:

It’s not quite that straightforward. Every private school receives governmental support in some way. Whether it’s busing, vouchers, police and fire protection, infrastructure, etc. The question is where to draw the line. This case, and others like the Montana case decided by SCOTUS this Summer, point out the tension between the First Amendment’s “Establishment” and “Free Exercise” clauses. 

Schools in Indiana receive tax dollar tuition support, correct?

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Just now, DanteEstonia said:

If they get that money, they have to follow the rules everyone else has to follow, including non-discrimination rules.

I agree completely. That is actually my point, and has been my issue from day 1 of the voucher program. They can and do openly discriminate; not only who they let in their schools, but who can work in them as well. They can also deny services to special needs students, giving the parents one option; sign the waiver or go back to public school. It is also THE point that people ignore when they talk about the cost of education per student in private schools compared to public schools. One final point; there is absolutely no accountability in place for how voucher schools spend those tax dollars; whereas every penny has to be accounted for in public school districts. 

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13 hours ago, Irishman said:

I agree completely. That is actually my point, and has been my issue from day 1 of the voucher program. They can and do openly discriminate; not only who they let in their schools, but who can work in them as well. They can also deny services to special needs students, giving the parents one option; sign the waiver or go back to public school. It is also THE point that people ignore when they talk about the cost of education per student in private schools compared to public schools. One final point; there is absolutely no accountability in place for how voucher schools spend those tax dollars; whereas every penny has to be accounted for in public school districts. 

Yes, every penny is always accounted for in government school districts

Why shouldn't a taxpayer have a choice in where their child attends school, and how the monies that the state 'attaches' to that child are spent?

 

 

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16 hours ago, DanteEstonia said:

Does Frankfort not have an auditor come every year?

I would assume they do, yes.   But I will contact my locally elected school board member and find our for sure.

 

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