Crown Point (13-0) vs. Ben Davis (12-1) 6A State Championship

[temptation]

1 minute ago, BTF said:

Interesting that Noblesville was Brownsburg's closest HCC game. I guess every team has one of those weeks. 

Yep.  But BD, East Central, and Chatard didn’t lost on their “bad week.”

[BTF]

7 minutes ago, temptation said:

Yep.  But BD, East Central, and Chatard didn’t lost on their “bad week.”

Really though, after your "CG, Ben Davis, and Brownsburg would roll CP" comment, I had to look at Westfield's schedule, which led me to Brownsburg's schedule. Interesting that Brownsburg wasted Westfield and Noblesville was the closest game on their schedule. Lol, that's really all I was saying. You took it the wrong way. But since you took it there.................

Forget it. 

Congratulations to Ben Davis on their state title and fantastic season. 

 

[temptation]

10 minutes ago, BTF said:

Really though, after your "CG, Ben Davis, and Brownsburg would roll CP" comment, I had to look at Westfield's schedule, which led me to Brownsburg's schedule. Interesting that Brownsburg wasted Westfield and Noblesville was the closest game on their schedule. Lol, that's really all I was saying. You took it the wrong way. But since you took it there.................

Forget it. 

Congratulations to Ben Davis on their state title and fantastic season. 

 

We don’t have to “ forget it.”  It’s great conversation.  Unlikely any BD players are reading this forum…you don’t need to shy away from branching off onto other topics.  We can respect what BD just did and still have our opinions.

Look, the HCC is the best conference in Indiana , top to bottom.  Folks are going to continue to pile on unfairly until they win a title which I guess is fine.  It’s an easy target.

However, you have to be “on” each Friday night or you are going to get snatched.  Hell, Snider found out that one bad night on the wrong night against middle of the road SAC squads can get you beat.

The difference is there is no Concordia, Wayne, Northrop, our South Side on the schedule for HCC teams which is why I was adamant Snider would be a middle of the pack HCC team were they to play an HCC schedule.

Once again, that is not diminishing the accomplishments of Snider.  It’s just my opinion.  
 

They have a significant enrollment disadvantage against the teams you mentioned and the wear and tear of that schedule every 7 days would take its toll.

I always end these debates with you with the same Homestead/Noblesville story from a few years back…

[BTF]

2 minutes ago, temptation said:

We don’t have to “ forget it.”  It’s great conversation.  Unlikely any BD players are reading this forum…you don’t need to shy away from branching off onto other topics.  We can respect what BD just did and still have our opinions.

Look, the HCC is the best conference in Indiana , top to bottom.  Folks are going to continue to pile on unfairly until they win a title which I guess is fine.  It’s an easy target.

However, you have to be “on” each Friday night or you are going to get snatched.  Hell, Snider found out that one bad night on the wrong night against middle of the road SAC squads can get you beat.

The difference is there is no Concordia, Wayne, Northrop, our South Side on the schedule for HCC teams which is why I was adamant Snider would be a middle of the pack HCC team were they to play an HCC schedule.

Once again, that is not diminishing the accomplishments of Snider.  It’s just my opinion.  
 

They have a significant enrollment disadvantage against the teams you mentioned and the wear and tear of that schedule every 7 days would take its toll.

I always end these debates with you with the same Homestead/Noblesville story from a few years back…

Homestead was snoring that game. They came back a week later and outplayed Indy's best team for two quarters without their best player. 

I didn't want to hijack the 6A title game, hence me saying "forget it" instead of:

Snider was also a 45 yard field goal from bowing out to Mishawaka. Everyone in the state of Indiana not in attendance at that game deemed Snider "average." At the end of the day, I don't know why Ben Davis almost lost Warren Central anymore than you know why Snider lost to Homestead or almost lost to Mishawaka. Who really cares. None of it changes the fact that both Ben Davis and Snider are state champions. 

[FastpacedO]

On 11/21/2023 at 1:30 PM, FastpacedO said:

I will repeat I am not speculating on prior years results to skew my opinion. I am stating whole heartedly my opinion from watching on the field play this year 2023. We will soon find out on Saturday, and you can tell me if I am incorrect on how Crown Point plays Ben Davis's talent compared to Brownsburg, Cathedral, or Center Grove. If I am wrong I will promptly admit it after Saturday.

 

On 11/21/2023 at 8:20 AM, BTF said:

2. You state that like it's a fact. Not sure how you can say that about an undefeated team that destroyed Merrillville and beat Westfield. No one is going to pretend Crown Point is on IMG's level. But Cathedral and Center Grove haven't done anything this year that guarantees they are better than Crown Point. You're making a presumption based on prior years performance. And that's fine. But you're presumptions aren't facts. 

Crown Point had a terrific season and were a solid team. They could not match Ben Davis' athleticism, speed and strength for 4 quarters. Brownsburg, Cathedral, and Center Grove could and did. Brownsburg led throughout and collapsed in the 4th qtr when they struggled to run the ball against BD's defense. Brownsburg had just as much athleticism, speed, and strength as Ben Davis. Cathedral stopped Ben Davis' offense very well in the 2nd half forcing them to kick what ended up being the game winning FG late in the 4th qtr. They still drove down the field late with their QB hobbled and he threw an Int at the endzone from the 26 losing the game. Center Grove stormed back after being down to take the lead in the game relying heavily on their pass game. Ben Davis kicked a FG to tie the game and in OT BD threw a TD to a WR who got his first catch of the night to win in OT. Ultimately Ben Davis while they had the athleticism, speed, and strength also had some moxsy about them to not give up and make plays when it counted.

I don't feel Crown Point was a bad team, they were very good. They just were not quite at the level of those 4 teams on film or in person. Merrillville's athleticism, speed, and strength was nowhere near the level of Ben Davis. It is hard for Crown Point to replicate what Ben Davis would bring because they had not played it all year. They have some good players returning next year and now see what it will take to hit that next level. All 4 teams Ben Davis, Cathedral, Center Grove, and Brownsburg lose some key players next year. It will be interesting. Crown Point still fought hard and should be commended for that. 

[FastpacedO]

8 hours ago, BTF said:

Homestead was snoring that game. They came back a week later and outplayed Indy's best team for two quarters without their best player. 

I didn't want to hijack the 6A title game, hence me saying "forget it" instead of:

Snider was also a 45 yard field goal from bowing out to Mishawaka. Everyone in the state of Indiana not in attendance at that game deemed Snider "average." At the end of the day, I don't know why Ben Davis almost lost Warren Central anymore than you know why Snider lost to Homestead or almost lost to Mishawaka. Who really cares. None of it changes the fact that both Ben Davis and Snider are state champions. 

What Indy's best team would we be talking about Carmel 2019? If you say Homestead was snoring against Noblesville in the 24-21 OT sectional win, who is to say Carmel wasn't snoring for a half against Homestead in a 31-7 Regional win? (that can work both ways).

I did not think that FW Snider was average after their game against Mishawaka. Mishawaka with their offense forces teams to be patient and if you aren't you can lose. Playing them in Mishawaka was not favorable and their offense can limit your possessions. Snider showed A LOT of moxie winning that game on that FG. I do know why Ben Davis almost lost to Warren Central and I know it is hard for those from Fort Wayne to completely understand. WC vs BD is a classic East Indianapolis vs West Indianapolis rivalry. It gets very "heated" heated and gets into the heads of players from both teams. Add in that WC coach was the former HC at Ben Davis and there was a lot going on in that match-up.

You are 100% correct both Ben Davis and Snider are State Champions. I had the 5A game as being a coin flip game. I saw it as Snider was going to win by at least 14 or DC was going to win by a FG depending on how it played out. The reason I thought Snider would win by at least 14 is because if they got up a couple scores it would force DC to throw which is not their strong point. Ultimately Buchanan's vision and speed broke the game open for Snider, he is a tremendous athlete. Getting up a couple of scores forced DC to throw when they prefer to run. Polston is a solid young QB, but relying on the pass game to win was not going to end well for DC. Congrats to the Panthers they were patient even when backed up with bad field position and Buchanan is definitely a stud with great vision and terrific speed.  

[BDGiant93]

On 11/24/2023 at 11:56 AM, SIR IRISH said:

Its wrong in Maxpreps, says CP lost but maxpreps isnt always accurate.  Thanks.

That's why you go to johnharrell.net.

[BLACKGOLD2007]

to be fair the BD game was closer than it should have been, Ben Davis left points on the field and made some errors early in the game that kept it close....

The problem is Ben Davis lived in the abyss of deep water while CP was playing in your normal diving pool deep water. When it started going Ben Davis's way, the game was over.  That isn't a slight to CP, it is a testament to how deep and grueling Indy football really is.

I hate it, I wish it were different.

But, that is the current world we live in. Congrats to all the state competitors and to all the Champions. 

[FastpacedO]

2 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

to be fair the BD game was closer than it should have been, Ben Davis left points on the field and made some errors early in the game that kept it close....

Not to mention had to settle for a Field Goal after officiating missed an obvious TD catch by Zackery. I won't bag too much the officials did a very good job in that game, but that one was a miss and it is different in real time speed than in slow motion replay.

I felt like Ben Davis was getting to antsy in the first half. Run game was working well with Price and they kept trying to throw deep when CP was playing well off the ball. Probably should have stuck with short passing game and running the ball with Price and Gotkowski. They would throw deep on 1st and 10 and end up in 2nd and 10.

Defensively they were very antsy jumping offsides on CP's shift giving them 1st and 5. I knew the snowball effect would happen  just felt they were too anxious to get it started.

[BLACKGOLD2007]

3 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

Not to mention had to settle for a Field Goal after officiating missed an obvious TD catch by Zackery. I won't bag too much the officials did a very good job in that game, but that one was a miss and it is different in real time speed than in slow motion replay.

I felt like Ben Davis was getting to antsy in the first half. Run game was working well with Price and they kept trying to throw deep when CP was playing well off the ball. Probably should have stuck with short passing game and running the ball with Price and Gotkowski. They would throw deep on 1st and 10 and end up in 2nd and 10.

Defensively they were very antsy jumping offsides on CP's shift giving them 1st and 5. I knew the snowball effect would happen  just felt they were too anxious to get it started.

To throw it back to a game I was at, this felt like Ben Davis was trying to Push CP into Penn 2017 situation. Hit big plays on offense and defense while trying to force errors that no one could come back from. 

To me it looked like Ben Davis was trying to end the game early. Which I think you agree. 

[gonzoron]

On 11/25/2023 at 7:58 PM, Komets2727 said:

BD 10 - CP 0, late first half, bad missed call by the official on the TD catch, player easily got 3 feet in bounds, cost BD a TD

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On 11/25/2023 at 8:15 PM, psaboy said:

CP hanging around more then most expected??

 

On 11/25/2023 at 9:02 PM, DACNUT said:

Next year for the DAC, at least in 6A, Ben Davis is clearly on another level, just as big, and then add in the speed and physicality at all levels, wow. 

 

On 11/25/2023 at 9:38 PM, SIR IRISH said:

I am really not an "I told you so" type of guy, but look at my posts.  I predicted a 42-14 game. This was a blowout like I expected.  BD is solid all the way around.  Congrats to all Giant fans.

 

On 11/25/2023 at 10:04 PM, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

@temptation and the buzzsaw keeps spinning. 

 

On 11/25/2023 at 10:08 PM, Goose Liver said:

Back to the drawing board.

 

On 11/25/2023 at 10:39 PM, Tippy said:

The weekend went about how I thought it would, except for 2A and 5A.  I didn't think Luers would win by that many points.  LCC's 28-7 loss to Luers doesn't look that bad, now.  

 

On 11/25/2023 at 10:47 PM, PHJIrish said:

Congratulations to the Ben Davis Giants.  They had to beat Brownsburg, Cathedral and Center Grove, just to make it to LOS, and then they beat and undefeated Crown Point to win it.

 

On 11/25/2023 at 11:20 PM, BendNotBreak said:

No it dosent... an awesome 1st half def effort.. stand... was it 6 plays to score from 2 yards out??  That was the highlight 4 Lcc... grinded em down.. n bottled up the O... game over... 

 

On 11/26/2023 at 12:52 AM, Footballking16 said:

How many of the state champions played their toughest postseason games  5-6 weeks ago? Fixing the postseason format might make for a better and more competitive Thanksgiving weekend. 

 

23 hours ago, dazed and confused said:

Not only that, it wasn’t very exciting !!!

 

20 hours ago, WestfieldRocks said:

From the Indy Star:
This year was highest average margin of victory in state championship games since #IHSAA went to six classes: 2013: 15.7 2014: 25.0 2015: 21.2 2016: 16.0 2017: 18.5 2018: 19.8 2019: 16.2 2020: 18.7 2021: 14.2 2022: 17.5 2023: 25.8

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Edited November 27, 2023 by gonzoron

[Komets2727]

1 hour ago, gonzoron said:

This would be a great time to make a donation to the GID guys. Lots of posting this weekend, servers were working overtime, they would like your support!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This would be a great time to make a donation to the GID guys. Lots of posting this weekend, servers were working overtime, they would like your support!

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Check mailed today

[scarab527]

14 hours ago, temptation said:

Even if seeded geographically at the sectional round, Brownsburg woulda matched up with BD one week later.  And no offense but CG or Brownsburg would have also rolled Crown Point…probably Cathedral too.

I often get accused of “Indy bias” but just at the 6A level it is so damn lopsided and has been for quite some time. 
 

This often gets laughed at (and probably should) but dividing the state east/west would do wonders, specifically for 6A.

 

 

No offense taken. Brownsburg, Cathedral, and CG would all have blown CP out. I’m not completely delusional about the level of football in my area of the state (unlike others here). 

You’re right in that 6A South being so much better is a problem in the current set up. Obviously it’s hard when a large majority of the schools sit right in the center of the state. East/West would be interesting (not sure how that would look for travel times though). If they had an actual qualifier I think you could justify any long travel times (as opposed to the first round blowouts you’d get otherwise). 

Either way this is all pretty mute because the IHSAA ain’t changing it. But not a good look for the Indiana HS FB with the level of competition seen this past weekend. 

[temptation]

9 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

No offense taken. Brownsburg, Cathedral, and CG would all have blown CP out. I’m not completely delusional about the level of football in my area of the state (unlike others here). 

You’re right in that 6A South being so much better is a problem in the current set up. Obviously it’s hard when a large majority of the schools sit right in the center of the state. East/West would be interesting (not sure how that would look for travel times though). If they had an actual qualifier I think you could justify any long travel times (as opposed to the first round blowouts you’d get otherwise). 

Either way this is all pretty mute because the IHSAA ain’t changing it. But not a good look for the Indiana HS FB with the level of competition seen this past weekend. 

Stop being so biased towards Indy teams.

They’ve only won 23 straight state titles in the state’s largest class…

We will once again hear in 2024 “not to sleep” on a Fort Wayne/Region area school only to have them lose by 4 touchdowns if they make it to Thanksgiving weekend.

[scarab527]

1 minute ago, temptation said:

Stop being so biased towards Indy teams.

They’ve only won 23 straight state titles in the state’s largest class…

We will once again hear in 2024 “not to sleep” on a Fort Wayne/Region area school only to have them lose by 4 touchdowns if they make it to Thanksgiving weekend.

The Indy bias is completely justified by the results and the eye test itself. I think anyone watching that game who was being honest with themselves could see pretty quickly it was men vs boys. 
 

Truthfully, and this is probably a hot take, if the past two years have made me think anything, it’s that the HCC (outside of Brownsburg) isn’t actually as good as it’s hyped to be. Westfield and HSE would’ve faced the same fate had they made it to LOS that Carroll and CP did. Still the best conference top to bottom, but most teams a definite tier below the true Indy powers. 
 

 

[BTF]

18 minutes ago, temptation said:

Stop being so biased towards Indy teams.

They’ve only won 23 straight state titles in the state’s largest class…

We will once again hear in 2024 “not to sleep” on a Fort Wayne/Region area school only to have them lose by 4 touchdowns if they make it to Thanksgiving weekend.

Controversial mood?

All we here about all year long is how good Hamilton Southeastern and Westfield are. But somehow Carroll and Crown Point still stink. Lol, I'm glad this season is over. Time to move on. 

[temptation]

2 minutes ago, BTF said:

Controversial mood?

All we here about all year long is how good Hamilton Southeastern and Westfield are. But somehow Carroll and Crown Point still stink. Lol, I'm glad this season is over. Time to move on. 

Don't you remember how this works?  HSE and Westfield were "worn out by the grind of a grueling HCC schedule" which ended up in their demise...

Ben Davis on the other hand, benefitted from a tough schedule in the tournament.

No, seriously though. Russ Mann's squad just eliminated four future hall of fame coaches in 5 weeks.  That is insane.

[BTF]

7 minutes ago, temptation said:

Don't you remember how this works?  HSE and Westfield were "worn out by the grind of a grueling HCC schedule" which ended up in their demise...

Ben Davis on the other hand, benefitted from a tough schedule in the tournament.

No, seriously though. Russ Mann's squad just eliminated four future hall of fame coaches in 5 weeks.  That is insane.

They earned it for sure. No one can accuse them of getting there through a soft path. Congratulations to them and their national ranking. Why do they always look better in the friendly confines of an indoor stadium? Speed kills in that environment. I was optimistic for the north, but the game was pretty much over before it even started. 

[FastpacedO]

13 minutes ago, temptation said:

Don't you remember how this works?  HSE and Westfield were "worn out by the grind of a grueling HCC schedule" which ended up in their demise...

Ben Davis on the other hand, benefitted from a tough schedule in the tournament.

No, seriously though. Russ Mann's squad just eliminated four future hall of fame coaches in 5 weeks.  That is insane.

I guess it is too early to put Coach Brevard in as a Future HOF Coach in his first year at Pike!

Coach Moyers had them in a good direction until his last year in 2014, they finished 4-6 and lost to Ben Davis 49-38 but they were competitive. Pike is a pretty big mystery, there are athletes roaming those halls.

[CoachMack219]

On 11/22/2023 at 7:58 AM, RegionFBFan said:

BD by 28

Perfection! 

[FastpacedO]

48 minutes ago, BTF said:

Controversial mood?

All we here about all year long is how good Hamilton Southeastern and Westfield are. But somehow Carroll and Crown Point still stink. Lol, I'm glad this season is over. Time to move on. 

With Hamilton Southeastern and Fishers sectional you never know what is going to happen and this year if Carmel will be any good. Fishers and HSE are very familiar with each other and also a Rivalry.

With Westfield they have Homestead in their sectional and Noblesville is on the upswing. Personally Westfield was probably a year ahead of schedule this year. Again when you had those 2 sectionals meet in Regionals they are very familiar with each other. When it came to HSE, Fishers, and Westfield possibly playing Crown Point it came down to match-ups. HSE probably matched up to Crown Points weakness better than Fishers and Westfield. You get those HCC teams playing each other in Regional and it can be a crap shoot on who comes out because they are very familiar with each other (has nothing to do with beating each other up either).

[psaboy]

3 hours ago, gonzoron said:

This would be a great time to make a donation to the GID guys. Lots of posting this weekend, servers were working overtime, they would like your support!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This would be a great time to make a donation to the GID guys. Lots of posting this weekend, servers were working overtime, they would like your support!

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Checking going out this Friday, after paycheck hits. I'll kind of miss some of those ads though 😞

[RegionFBFan]

41 minutes ago, CoachMack219 said:

Perfection! 

Yes correct call. Actually called 1A game correct as well. Close on most of the others. Unfortunately for CP, 28 point loss was my “heart” prediction. I originally thought BD by 42 and the reality is they could have easily won by 42 or more. 
 

CP would not have won the 3A, 4A or 5A title either. Scores would have been a little closer but still been beat. Penn should have won in Regional. Westfield slept walk from long bus ride in 1st half, woke up in 2nd half and should have win in semi state. Westfield qb did not play well in that game either.

[PHJIrish]

I wish I was able to donate to the GID but I'm 80 years old and on a fixed income.  I can still make it to the games, but there's not much left after paying the bills and going to the games.  

[Yuccaguy]

2 minutes ago, PHJIrish said:

I wish I was able to donate to the GID but I'm 80 years old and on a fixed income.  I can still make it to the games, but there's not much left after paying the bills and going to the games.  

PH, of all the legends on this blog.  I think that YOU would get an understanding that others would not receive!

God Bless, and stay healthy.  

Ya know WHO I am....lol