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Footballking16

Kevin Wilson

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5 hours ago, FishDuck said:

Who would they get? I don't see anyway they could land Les Miles or PJ Fleck and that doesn't leave much. Maybe Helfrich or Charlie Strong? I don't see either being a good fit at IU. The D-Coordinator from Wisconsin is a trending name, but that wouldn't be much difference from Allen. If Arkansas dumps Bret Bielema I would be all for going after him, but I don't think that will happen. Brian Kelly is a huge no IMO lol

I agree that Allen isn't a perfect fit, but with the improvement he made in the defense this year I think he had to be the pick. At least for now going into the bowl game and for next year. If he can find the right guy to run the offense I think everything will be fine, maybe even better next year. Allen should be able to recruit the in-state talent that IU wants, especially with the current state of the other programs in Indiana.

 

I agree. I think that it was predetermined at some point that Allen would be the next coach at IU.  Allen is a great Indiana football mind who's resume continues to be polished, and his landing back in Indiana was a part of this process.  I think that he could be successful, and possibly swing some of the in state recruiting woes.  I enjoyed watching IU football the last couple of years as they've grown to compete. I think Allen's Indiana ties will be very helpful, and his experience outside of Indiana could prove a plus to.  I am a die hard IU fan, and hope this is what pushing IU over the hump.  

5 hours ago, FishDuck said:

Who would they get? I don't see anyway they could land Les Miles or PJ Fleck and that doesn't leave much. Maybe Helfrich or Charlie Strong? I don't see either being a good fit at IU. The D-Coordinator from Wisconsin is a trending name, but that wouldn't be much difference from Allen. If Arkansas dumps Bret Bielema I would be all for going after him, but I don't think that will happen. Brian Kelly is a huge no IMO lol

I agree that Allen isn't a perfect fit, but with the improvement he made in the defense this year I think he had to be the pick. At least for now going into the bowl game and for next year. If he can find the right guy to run the offense I think everything will be fine, maybe even better next year. Allen should be able to recruit the in-state talent that IU wants, especially with the current state of the other programs in Indiana.

 

I agree. I think that it was predetermined at some point that Allen would be the next coach at IU.  Allen is a great Indiana football mind who's resume continues to be polished, and his landing back in Indiana was a part of this process.  I think that he could be successful, and possibly swing some of the in state recruiting woes.  I enjoyed watching IU football the last couple of years as they've grown to compete. I think Allen's Indiana ties will be very helpful, and his experience outside of Indiana could prove a plus to.  I am a die hard IU fan, and hope this is what pushing IU over the hump.  

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The one thing that raises an eyebrow is the fact that IU owed Wilson $12 million, but instead, he opted to only take $500,000. Could that possibly mean that there's more to this story than they're leading us on to believe?

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1 minute ago, braaadly said:

The one thing that raises an eyebrow is the fact that IU owed Wilson $12 million, but instead, he opted to only take $500,000. Could that possibly mean that there's more to this story than they're leading us on to believe?

I think Glass gave him an ultimatum:  either resign and take the one year payment or you will NEVER coach again.  I think it is something that bad.  I have no inside info but the way things went and how Glass skirted around everything leads me to believe Wilson really messed up.  One thing is for sure:  IU will not come out on the short end of this (for once).  No buyout $$ being wasted.

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5 minutes ago, itiswhatitis said:

I think Glass gave him an ultimatum:  either resign and take the one year payment or you will NEVER coach again.  I think it is something that bad.  I have no inside info but the way things went and how Glass skirted around everything leads me to believe Wilson really messed up.  One thing is for sure:  IU will not come out on the short end of this (for once).  No buyout $$ being wasted.

That is true. Totally speculating, but guessing IU was potentially facing a lawsuit of some kind (perhaps from the family of the kid forced to play through a concussion) and IU couldn't risk keeping Wilson on the staff. But former and current players are coming out in droves supporting Wilson and his coaching methods. We may never know what actually went down.

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20 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

That is true. Totally speculating, but guessing IU was potentially facing a lawsuit of some kind (perhaps from the family of the kid forced to play through a concussion) and IU couldn't risk keeping Wilson on the staff. But former and current players are coming out in droves supporting Wilson and his coaching methods. We may never know what actually went down.

I guess unless the truth is revealed at some point in the future, (for us) it's all speculation.  But as I said, Wilson had to have REALLY messed up in light of the fact they just gave him a 6 year extension.  His record at IU is terrible however, the past 2 years it was going in the right direction.  I hope that Allen does well and can find an OC that can keep up with his enthusiasm and motivation.  If he does, IU will go from the bottom (or near bottom) of the conference to upper echelon in the B1G in the course of a couple of years.  I'm really anxious to see if Allen can keep some of the better Indiana players in-state.  From what I've seen, I think he'll get some of them to stay.  I also liked Allen's comment about how he wants this team to "break through".  Let's hope that he can accomplish that.

Edited by itiswhatitis

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only time will tell if Allen is head coaching material.  I do think one of the number of positives for Allen is that being an Indiana guy, this is a dream job for him.  I won't say never to him leaving for greener pastures, but I think he could be very content in Btown even if he is quite successful.  Also from what I've read, Indiana high school coaches are very pleased with his hire.....he is quite respected by that fraternity.

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2 hours ago, Trojan Dad said:
2 hours ago, Trojan Dad said:

only time will tell if Allen is head coaching material.  I do think one of the number of positives for Allen is that being an Indiana guy, this is a dream job for him.  I won't say never to him leaving for greener pastures, but I think he could be very content in Btown even if he is quite successful.  Also from what I've read, Indiana high school coaches are very pleased with his hire.....he is quite respected by that fraternity.

.

In the presser last night Allen mentioned  how the door would always be open to high school coaches.  I would agree that he is well respected within the state.

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As far as an OC? I'm thinking I would be sniffing around some potentials around Harbaugh's current or former shirttails. Not necessarily for the X's & O, but from the mentality of coaching with expectations of competing at a high level that they might have soaked up from him. no one in particular, just saying.

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9 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Exactly. But guys like Komet and Dude who have openly despised Wilson from Day 1 continue to cite his on-field performance for reasoning as to why he was forced out. This had absolutely zero to do with wins and losses, rather everything to do with mistreatment and negligence of his players. I 100% stand by IU's decision to force Wilson out because of the allegations being reported.

Whoa. Whoa. Whoa.  The Dude's been pretty clear about what kind of direction the Dude wants the program to go.  The Dude's also said Wilson is a mediocre coach at best.  As his record aka body of work aka resume clearly indicates.  Never has the Dude despised him.  In fact, the Dude has been pretty vocal about gladly eating crow.  Your reading comprehension needs work.  

Edited by Lebowski
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5 hours ago, Trojan Dad said:

only time will tell if Allen is head coaching material.  I do think one of the number of positives for Allen is that being an Indiana guy, this is a dream job for him.  I won't say never to him leaving for greener pastures, but I think he could be very content in Btown even if he is quite successful.  Also from what I've read, Indiana high school coaches are very pleased with his hire.....he is quite respected by that fraternity.

Agree with TD here.  Much like Terry Hoeppner in this regard.  Allen is respected by coaches and his players.  I would expect the Hoosiers to play balls out in their bowl game to provide off season momentum.  

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On 12/2/2016 at 7:05 PM, Lebowski said:

Whoa. Whoa. Whoa.  The Dude's been pretty clear about what kind of direction the Dude wants the program to go.  The Dude's also said Wilson is a mediocre coach at best.  As his record aka body of work aka resume clearly indicates.  Never has the Dude despised him.  In fact, the Dude has been pretty vocal about gladly eating crow.  Your reading comprehension needs work.  

I would love to see where I said I despised Wilson. Of course, we won't let facts stand in the way of FootballKing16's fantasy. I have said Wilson's teams have underachieved, especially the last 2 years. I will say AGAIN that on field performance was a factor in him no longer coaching at Indiana. It was not the only factor, as there are other things going on, but it was a factor. That might mean that I have some inside info since I keep repeating it....

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‘I’m paying $70,000 a year for you to sit on your ass,’   : http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2016/12/03/exclusive-2015-investigation-into-player-treatment-contributed-kevin-wilsons-resignation/94862298/

Quote

The beginning of the end for Kevin Wilson’s tenure as Indiana University football coach came April 7, 2015.

That’s when the father of a player appealed to IU's athletic department about how his son had been treated after an injury. He wrote to the university that serious damage to his son’s back initially was overlooked, that his son was made to lift weights while injured and was ridiculed as soft.

The father's complaint prompted an external investigation last year into the handling of injuries in IU's football program.

Documents obtained by IndyStar and exclusive interviews conducted with Athletic Director Fred Glass, the injured player, Nick Carovillano, and his father, Dean, suggest that Wilson and his staff may have created an unhealthy environment for injured players.

It was the first of two such investigations, the initial one ending with Glass's sharp rebuke of the culture Wilson had created, and the second — conducted this past month — ultimately contributing to Wilson’s departure from Indiana.

....

An interesting read.  And I didn't know that the cost to rehabilitate injured players came out of Mr. Wilson's salary.

 

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12 hours ago, komets3001 said:

I would love to see where I said I despised Wilson. Of course, we won't let facts stand in the way of FootballKing16's fantasy. I have said Wilson's teams have underachieved, especially the last 2 years. I will say AGAIN that on field performance was a factor in him no longer coaching at Indiana. It was not the only factor, as there are other things going on, but it was a factor. That might mean that I have some inside info since I keep repeating it....

The Dude abides.  

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Well, we all knew more details would come out. Pretty sad to see. I will give the players a lot of credit. In that environment to play as hard as they did is impressive. 

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Has anyone thought that this might be a bit overblown, and that if Wilson had been 8-4 the last two seasons he would have been smacked on the wrist, maybe fined, maybe suspended, but still the coach? Conversely, perhaps at 6-6, they didn't want to fire him $12 million worth, but were happy to do so when circumstances reduced their liability 95%.

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48 minutes ago, bobref said:

Has anyone thought that this might be a bit overblown, and that if Wilson had been 8-4 the last two seasons he would have been smacked on the wrist, maybe fined, maybe suspended, but still the coach? Conversely, perhaps at 6-6, they didn't want to fire him $12 million worth, but were happy to do so when circumstances reduced their liability 95%.

Sir, you have hit the nail on the head!!! If Indiana had been 8-4, these issues would have been resolved and he still would have been the head coach. That is 100% fact

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4 hours ago, Lebowski said:
1 hour ago, komets3001 said:

Sir, you have hit the nail on the head!!! If Indiana had been 8-4, these issues would have been resolved and he still would have been the head coach. That is 100% fact

The Dude abides.  

 

2 hours ago, bobref said:

Has anyone thought that this might be a bit overblown, and that if Wilson had been 8-4 the last two seasons he would have been smacked on the wrist, maybe fined, maybe suspended, but still the coach? Conversely, perhaps at 6-6, they didn't want to fire him $12 million worth, but were happy to do so when circumstances reduced their liability 95%.

I love how someone claims to have "inside info" just to give their speculation credibility.  The Bloomington Herald  published quite a different story.  There was ZERO mention of Wilson's record and it was all about him mistreating players.  I would like to think the Herald writers have a bit more "inside info" than someone who lives 200 miles away from Bloomington.  I have a co-worker who is neighbors with IU's running back coach.  I could say I have "inside info" from him but that would be total BS.  Don't beat up footballking16  and say he is fantasizing when a certain "fan" on here complains to high heaven because the IU football team doesn't meet HIS expectations.  Talk about living in a fantasy world.  Get a grip brother.

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3 hours ago, itiswhatitis said:

 

I love how someone claims to have "inside info" just to give their speculation credibility.  The Bloomington Herald  published quite a different story.  There was ZERO mention of Wilson's record and it was all about him mistreating players.  I would like to think the Herald writers have a bit more "inside info" than someone who lives 200 miles away from Bloomington.  I have a co-worker who is neighbors with IU's running back coach.  I could say I have "inside info" from him but that would be total BS.  Don't beat up footballking16  and say he is fantasizing when a certain "fan" on here complains to high heaven because the IU football team doesn't meet HIS expectations.  Talk about living in a fantasy world.  Get a grip brother.

Who's beating up who?  Geesh.

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3 hours ago, itiswhatitis said:

 

I love how someone claims to have "inside info" just to give their speculation credibility.  The Bloomington Herald  published quite a different story.  There was ZERO mention of Wilson's record and it was all about him mistreating players.  I would like to think the Herald writers have a bit more "inside info" than someone who lives 200 miles away from Bloomington.  I have a co-worker who is neighbors with IU's running back coach.  I could say I have "inside info" from him but that would be total BS.  Don't beat up footballking16  and say he is fantasizing when a certain "fan" on here complains to high heaven because the IU football team doesn't meet HIS expectations.  Talk about living in a fantasy world.  Get a grip brother.

Nice try...,

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18 hours ago, bobref said:

Has anyone thought that this might be a bit overblown, and that if Wilson had been 8-4 the last two seasons he would have been smacked on the wrist, maybe fined, maybe suspended, but still the coach? Conversely, perhaps at 6-6, they didn't want to fire him $12 million worth, but were happy to do so when circumstances reduced their liability 95%.

Perhaps....but if overblown, why wouldn't Wilson fight it, accept the termination, and get a much bigger severance?  He resigned and took a very small payout.

Why would the AD be looking for a reason to fire him, when he just gave Wilson a major contract extension after LAST season?  

2 external legal firm investigations....both last year and this year.  My guess IU thought it had its butt hanging out, and a major way to show responsibility is to cut the head off the snake.  (not calling Wilson a snake)  As we all know, the world is different today than just a few years ago.

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54 minutes ago, Trojan Dad said:

Perhaps....but if overblown, why wouldn't Wilson fight it, accept the termination, and get a much bigger severance?  He resigned and took a very small payout.

perhaps this was the best deal he could negotiate for himself under the circumstances. They could terminate him "for cause" and owe him nothing on the buyout.

Why would the AD be looking for a reason to fire him, when he just gave Wilson a major contract extension after LAST season?  

Because the opportunity presented itself to get out from under a bad deal.

2 external legal firm investigations....both last year and this year.  My guess IU thought it had its butt hanging out, and a major way to show responsibility is to cut the head off the snake.  (not calling Wilson a snake)  As we all know, the world is different today than just a few years ago.

No argument here. But that is not inconsistent with my point that, if Wilson had a better record, this outcome might have been different. Wilson's treatment of players creates a risk to the University. So, in deciding how to handle that risk, you look at the benefits that go along with assuming the risk. At two seasons at 8-4 Wilson represents a greater benefit than a Wilson with two seasons at 6-6. So, that gets factored into the risk/reward analysis. I'm not saying the outcome necessarily would have been different. I'm saying the case could be made, logically, legally and economically, for different outcomes.

 

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4 hours ago, bobref said:

 

Fair point if he had a better record the outcome may have been different.  Its just that Glass really defended his decision to give him the big extension just a year ago, so it felt Glass was really in Wilson's corner.  He kept saying the record didn't reflect how Wilson has the program moving upward.  But, one never knows what's really going on "below the surface".

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Which high school coaches will seriously be considered for a job, and would leave their school?

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I guess it doesn't matter who is head coach.  It seems that IU is destined to never find their guy.  I wish Allen all of the luck in the world.  Not that he won't need it or anything (sarky).

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On 12/4/2016 at 0:38 PM, bobref said:

Has anyone thought that this might be a bit overblown, and that if Wilson had been 8-4 the last two seasons he would have been smacked on the wrist, maybe fined, maybe suspended, but still the coach? Conversely, perhaps at 6-6, they didn't want to fire him $12 million worth, but were happy to do so when circumstances reduced their liability 95%.

Not a chance. If performance had been lumped into it, Wilson more than likely would have fought it and would have won. IU would not have given him a 6 year raise  only to fire him one year later. Despite what the Dude and Komet say, this IU team that went 6-6, 4-5 in conference is the BEST season IU has had in over 20 years. It may not meet their delusional expectations but this no doubt was a successful season that almost all IU fans can get behind. 

I think Glass planned this strategically. IU conducted an investigation in 2015, BEFORE they gave him an extension. Why would Glass take that risk on a $12mil raise if they had already conducted a search on previous player mistreatment? Feel like a potential lawsuit could make a $12mil buyout seem like chump change. Wilson was Glass and IU's guy from day 1. It was not until a second report surfaced publicly that forced Glass hand. IU had leverage on Wilson and it would have looked terrible had IU retained Wilson and these reports surfaced years after the fact. That culminated with potential lawsuit(s) from families of these players really left Glass with no choice. 

But I simply cannot get behind the fact that Wilson would still be IU's coach had they won 8 games instead of 6. No chance. It would look TERRIBLE on IU if ever came out that the AD put emphasis on wins over player safety.

14 hours ago, Trojan Dad said:

Perhaps....but if overblown, why wouldn't Wilson fight it, accept the termination, and get a much bigger severance?  He resigned and took a very small payout.

Why would the AD be looking for a reason to fire him, when he just gave Wilson a major contract extension after LAST season?  

2 external legal firm investigations....both last year and this year.  My guess IU thought it had its butt hanging out, and a major way to show responsibility is to cut the head off the snake.  (not calling Wilson a snake)  As we all know, the world is different today than just a few years ago.

Wish I read your post before I responded to Bobref. Couldn't have said it better.

Edited by Footballking16

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