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The Media Wildly Mischaracterized That Video of Covington Catholic Students Confronting a Native American Veteran


Muda69

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3 hours ago, TrojanDad said:

I'm guessing Sandmann's attorney feels its not a waste of time.  He's got a pretty decent track record in this arena.  The Post left out a ton of details...and certainly help to paint an incomplete picture at best.  The young man because of the reporting that told only part of the story received death threats and harassment.  Several other organizations have been put on notice.  I guess time will tell.

I am sure his attorney doesn't. His MO, which has left him well compensated, usually involves leveraging the threat of continued bad publicity to get settlements, and I suspect he will have some success with that approach again here --  if not against the Post, at least with the smaller, less well-funded defendants he sues down the road. His representation of Richard Jewell is probably instructive in that regard: he reached nice but not huge settlements fairly quickly with most the media organizations he sued or threatened to sue; he lost the once defamation case (against the Atlanta newspaper) he actually took to trial.  

Defamation is not the same as shoddy reporting. I have not seen where the Post actually make any false assertions of fact about Sandman. 

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6 minutes ago, Wabash82 said:

 I have not seen where the Post actually make any false assertions of fact about Sandman. 

https://reason.com/blog/2019/02/21/nick-sandmann-covington-lawsuit-libel

Quote

...

There is one statement that does look like a potential assertion of fact rather than opinion. From The Post:

"It was getting ugly, and I was thinking: 'I've got to find myself an exit out of this situation and finish my song at the Lincoln Memorial,' " Phillips recalled. "I started going that way, and that guy in the hat stood in my way, and we were at an impasse. He just blocked my way and wouldn't allow me to retreat."

This strikes me as potential grounds for a libel claim. It may indeed be considered a statement of fact rather than opinion, and one that was incorrect. The false assertion certainly portrays Sandmann in a negative light, and The Post made little effort to corroborate it before the author went ahead and subjected a previously unknown teenage boy to all the negative publicity that comes with being the subject of hit piece in a major media outlet. But this is far from open and shut, as the media's failures in the Covington case, while substantial, are more open to interpretation than Rolling Stone's failures in the Virginia story.

Of course, there's a broader philosophical problem with trying to resolve the Covington debacle via lawsuit, even if Sandmann may have a case (albeit an extremely narrow one): It raises serious free speech concerns, and it could have significant repercussions for the media.

....

 

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46 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

There wasn't.  ISU was the only school that accepted my application, and the only one I could afford.   

 

There are many, many alternatives in choosing post-secondary education. There always have been.

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18 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

I'd say the Post's quote of Phillips involves a mixed statement of fact and opinion by Phillips, and I don't know how it can be shown to be "false", in light of the various videos. Phillips did walk up to Sandman, but Sandman (as he has acknowledged) didn't try to move or get out of his way. So Sandman did in that sense block Phillips. Phillips perceived it, apparently, as threatening; Sandman says he didn't mean for it to be threatening, he was instead trying to defuse things by not moving. Phillips may have been mistaken in his subjective opinion of Sandman's intent, but not in the objective statement that Sandman blocked him from moving forward. 

The "didn't allow me to retreat" appears to be a reference to the fact (as is shown on all the videos) that the kids sort of encircled the Native American group after they had walked up to Sandman. It doesn't look like they did it to be threatening, but rather just get a better view of what was happening, but they did still encircle them. 

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2 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

wonder how many people with a 1270 SAT get admitted to Harvard?....

Wonder if his political views helped him out...just a little......

Now if he had more outspoken conservative views, would a 1270 be enough?

IU's school of Informatics, Computing, and Engineering (SICE) requires a minimum 1350 SAT for a direct admit.

Don't know, but you get recruitment letters from Harvard if you live in Montana and Nevada and have SAT scores of 1310.  1270's not far off.  Heck, George Bush had around 1200 and got into Yale.

 

 

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48 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

I think you and Gonzo both know the average student does not get admitted to Harvard with a 1270 SAT.  5% of all applicants are accepted.  They estimate "some students may be accepted with a SAT as low as 1455.

https://www.collegesimply.com/colleges/massachusetts/harvard-university/admission/

If the young man had been a conservative, and was outspoken against gun control, would Harvard admitted him with a 1270 SAT?  

Harvard.JPG

Your question is, of course, hypothetical, since such a student would never want to go to a leftist, elitist, effete academy of pinheadedry such as Harvard. He'd apply to a solid conservative institution in the Midwest, like U of C, or  Hillsdale, or go to one of the wellspring academies for renowned libertarian thinkers, such as Indiana State. 

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46 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

I think you and Gonzo both know the average student does not get admitted to Harvard with a 1270 SAT

Sorry, but I didn't know that. I don't really make it a habit to check SAT requirements of a school unless I am interested in sending one of my children there or I just want to find fault with someone who did get into that school. Nor am I in the habit of researching SAT scores of kids I see in the news. What possible relevance does this have to the comparison between Sandmann and Hogg? Was Sandmann rejected by Harvard? 

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36 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

I think you and Gonzo both know the average student does not get admitted to Harvard with a 1270 SAT.  5% of all applicants are accepted.  They estimate "some students may be accepted with a SAT as low as 1455.

https://www.collegesimply.com/colleges/massachusetts/harvard-university/admission/

If the young man had been a conservative, and was outspoken against gun control, would Harvard admitted him with a 1270 SAT?  

 

Actually, they estimate that some may be admitted with an SAT score LOWER than 1455 based on your graphic.  Under 2% of them.

If you were talking about just any average admission doc, you'd probably be right, but we aren't talking about an average student, are we?  We're talking about a kid who has become an author, founded a non-profit, has been on TV lots of times, who has helped organize a movement ... whether you like the movement or not ... helped create a boycott movement that took out advertisers from an adversary's show, etc.  He became a national name and isn't done yet.  You may not like what he's doing, but the kid got in.  You have a conspiracy theory, why not prove it instead of just toss the mud out there and see if it sticks.  The kid's in the under 2% that get in.  The fact that Harvard sends mailers to folks in Montana and Nevada with 1310 means that they consider those scores.  May not admit a lot of them, but they have a policy that says target these kids.  Given that they are willing to "waste" their targeted application inquiries on kids with 1310 when 1455 is the supposed floor ... the reason is because they DO admit folks in that range.  And if they admit general folks from Montana with a 1310, then why wouldn't they consider and even admit a national profile kid with a similar score?

Yes, I know the narrative is to make him unworthy,  but frankly, that 2% is about diamonds in the rough.  Something that's seen as worth taking a chance on.  This kid took on Laura Ingraham and held his own.  He's taken on the NRA and held his own.  He's weathered a lots of folks attacking him and physically threatening him and hasn't backed down.  He had the awareness, during the shootings, to record the equivalent of last testaments so that if he and his fellow students didn't survive, they could at least leave their last messages.  He wrote a book.  He's founded a non-profit.  And he's still at it.  Tell me again why Harvard wouldn't want to have him?  If you've done admissions in a university setting, while there's lots that tied to the numbers, there are also windows for more holistic evaluation.  Admissions will see out diamonds in the rough and this kid fits that idea whether you like his politics or not.  Again, I don't see folks complaining about Bush's 1200 or so getting into Yale or Kushner's grades/scores not being in the Harvard ranges.  That's definitely a couple of conservatives there with lower-than-expected performance getting into Ivy League schools.

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Meh. I hear the University of California at Berkeley is where its at:  http://reason.com/blog/2019/02/22/uc-berkeley-student-punched-face-conserv

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A stranger punched a University of California–Berkeley student in the face after becoming enraged at his posters, which said "Hate crime hoaxes hurt real victims" and "this is MAGA country."

The University of California Police Department is attempting to identify the attacker, and a spokesperson for the university said it would take action if he turns out to be a student.

"Let me state in no uncertain terms that this university strongly condemns violence and harassment of any sort, for any reason," Dan Moguluf, assistant vice chancellor for communications, tells Campus Reform. "That sort of behavior is reprehensible and intolerable. We have, in recent years, spent millions of dollars to ensure that students from across the ideological/political spectrum can safely and successfully promote and discuss their beliefs. Our commitment to freedom of expression and belief is unwavering."

The student, Hayden Williams, is a field representative for the Leadership Institute, and he was helping with recruitment for Turning Point USA. Both organizations promote conservatism on college campuses.

The altercation, which was captured on video, took place at a public square near Williams' recruitment table. The video clearly shows a young man in a black shirt punching Williams directly in the face. Williams' only crimes, it seems, were promoting a conservative cause and attempting to record his interactions with students on his phone.

The video shows another person attempting to knock Williams' phone out of his hands and accusing Williams of "fucking encouraging violence" just before the man in the black shirt attacks him. I gather that this person believed Williams' provocative signs—which allude to the allegedly fake Jussie Smollett hate incident—were not mere speech but actually a kind of assault on marginalized communities.

The idea that words are themselves violence is regrettably popular among student activists. If words are violence, then punching somebody who says something offensive isn't wrong; it's just self-defense. The idea's results are on display in the video:

 

 

 

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55 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

not knocking his political ambitions and efforts....but I'm guessing he might have gotten some support politically that the average student doesn't receive.  But, I agree give credit where credit is due.

Guess Harvard must see something in him that UCLA, UC-San Diego, UC-Santa Barbara, and UC-Irvine didn't........

I'm not sure where you see Harvard admitting folks from Montana with a 1310....source?

Whether you accept it or not, the young man getting accepted to Harvard is an outlier statistically.  All I am asking, if he had been as vocal and successful in defending gun rights and supporting the NRA, would Harvard have accepted him with his credentials?  After all, wouldn't they say they have it down when it comes to diversity and inclusion?

I have now had 3 children get accepted to Big 10 schools....I'm not at a complete loss in understanding college admissions.

BTW, not throwing mud at a kid, so don't go there....just questioning a system that allows a student to have inferior qualifications and still gain admittance....and asking if his political views aligning with Harvard's views came into play?  

https://nypost.com/2018/10/17/harvards-gatekeeper-reveals-sat-cutoff-scores-based-on-race/

FTA:

Fitzsimmons explained a similar process for white wannabe students in states that don’t see a lot of Harvard attendees, like Montana or Nevada. Students in those states would receive a recruitment letter if they had at least a 1310 on their SATs.

 

Also, I stated that Harvard was sending mailers to those kids.  It would reason that, if Harvard is spending money sending mailers based on a 1310 SAT score, then they are certainly open to admitting some as well.

As for outlier, yeah it is an outlier.  Not sure anyone said that it was the norm nor even implied it.  As for understanding admissions, I would say that having three kids in college gives you a cursory understanding of the admissions process unless you've actually been on the inside or spent an inordinate amount of time researching it and, even then,  you still don't get to see them make the everlasting-gobstopper ... you just get one.  I have two in college and have served on admissions boards, scholarship boards, admissions advisory panels, etc.  I've seen the sausage being made for the better part of more than two decades and I can tell you that, while there are admissions qualifications, there's one word that just about every college/university uses in their process that gives them some modicum of some flexibility: holistic.  As for defending gun rights, etc., a student focusing on those may well have a better chance being accepted at another school like my alma mater in Texas where you have to have an NRA membership and at least a one 25-straight round and no less than 23 over three rounds attached to your application than this kid did getting to Harvard.  As for schools seeing something that other schools don't, that happens ALL OF THE TIME.  Again, a diamond in the rough rarely ever gets selected at every top school they apply at.  Most get a one short long shot. 

As for political views aligning with a school's, of course that's a potential issue.  I imagine BYU potentially takes atheists, but I bet they take a lot less than Mormans although I wouldn't be surprised if some were.  I bet there aren't too many pacifists that get admitted to West Point although I wouldn't be surprised if some were.  University of Chicago may well take communists, but probably not unless you wrote the Communist Manifesto.  I would expect, however, that in Harvard's case, what he believed in was less important than what he did with it.  Just being a gun advocate wouldn't catch most folks' attention.  Being a gun advocate with a co-authored book and a developed non-profit that wasn't just a funnel for the NRA would probably get just as many looks as this kid did.  I'm not vegan and I doubt I could ever be vegan, but on an admissions board, I'd give a kid who started and maintained his own vegan restaurant just as much credit as a kid who opened his own fast food joint ... maybe even more given the issues associated with a more niche market.  I don't care for romance novels, but I'd give equal credit to an incoming kid who was a successful romance author as I would to someone who was a successful sci-fi writer.  I may care for pale ale as opposed to stout, but if I had a kid who figured out how to create his own craft-beer and created a brewery, he's probably get a good look from me even though I'd probably not drink the product.  Very often it's what you did rather than what was the leaning of what you did.  

If you want to question Harvard, I'd think you'd get more traction trying to figure out how someone like Kushner got in when it seems like many didn't think he'd make that cut.  There's a conservative for you that made it in to Harvard that doesn't seem to have had the credentials.  I'm sure though that they "overlooked" his pro-gun stance.

1 hour ago, TrojanDad said:

Podiatrist?

Doctor.

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Just now, Impartial_Observer said:

I was listening to a Freakanomics podcast yesterday, your best bet to get into a top flight school is:

1)Have the grades/test scores to qualify.

2)Be good at Fencing. Odds of a college scholarship are exponentially higher than virtually every other sport.  

Golf is not a bad choice either for some schools with scholarship.

The other suggestion is not to be too perfect on the grades.  There are a bunch of kids every year that don't get in to elites that have "perfects."

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29 minutes ago, BARRYOSAMA said:

These school are more liberal than Harvard.  

Santa Barbara and UCLA clock in in the Top 100.  Irvine cracks the Top 125 and San Diego finishes in top 150.  Harvard clocks in around 265 out of 687 according to Niche.

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6 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

Perhaps...I don't know one way or the other...but if the Cali schools are more liberal, that would seem to make them uber liberal.  Note the various articles calling out or noting Harvard's liberal bias. (including Harvard's own school paper)

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/harvard-liberal-conservatives-political-bias/2018/05/29/id/863005/

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/harvard-faculty-backs-democrats-96-of-the-time-says-school-paper

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/red-alert-politics/harvard-students-call-for-the-hiring-of-more-conservative-professors

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/more-harvard-yale-freshmen-identify-lgbtq-conservative-surveys-find-n909781

Again, if Hogg had been calling out for protection of the 2nd amendment and support of the NRA, would a 1270 SAT got him admittance to Harvard?

 

 

There is zero way for someone to answer that question in any manner other that "no" that would satisfy you, so this is just rhetorical.  But the reality is that Harvard's reserved spaces for the rich and famous are not all for leftist, and the answer to your question would probably turn on a whole bunch info that isn't in your hypothetical. Like: just how famous is this theorized 2nd Amendment advocate? How exactly did he become famous? Is he as well spoken as Hogg? Etc., etc., etc.

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13 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

Perhaps...I don't know one way or the other...but if the Cali schools are more liberal, that would seem to make them uber liberal.  Note the various articles calling out or noting Harvard's liberal bias. (including Harvard's own school paper)

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/harvard-liberal-conservatives-political-bias/2018/05/29/id/863005/

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/harvard-faculty-backs-democrats-96-of-the-time-says-school-paper

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/red-alert-politics/harvard-students-call-for-the-hiring-of-more-conservative-professors

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/more-harvard-yale-freshmen-identify-lgbtq-conservative-surveys-find-n909781

Again, if Hogg had been calling out for protection of the 2nd amendment and support of the NRA, would a 1270 SAT got him admittance to Harvard?

 

 

So your point is that uber liberal schools don't like Hogg and less liberal schools like Harvard do like him?  Not following you point.

Fox has more than adequately answered your question IMO.

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13 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

Perhaps...I don't know one way or the other...but if the Cali schools are more liberal, that would seem to make them uber liberal.  Note the various articles calling out or noting Harvard's liberal bias. (including Harvard's own school paper)

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/harvard-liberal-conservatives-political-bias/2018/05/29/id/863005/

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/harvard-faculty-backs-democrats-96-of-the-time-says-school-paper

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/red-alert-politics/harvard-students-call-for-the-hiring-of-more-conservative-professors

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/more-harvard-yale-freshmen-identify-lgbtq-conservative-surveys-find-n909781

Again, if Hogg had been calling out for protection of the 2nd amendment and support of the NRA, would a 1270 SAT got him admittance to Harvard?

 

 

Several of the California schools are "uber liberal" compared to others.

For some reason, you keep asking the questions like it was his stance and not his actions that got him into the schools.  That may work for some, but not for most of the common folks.   For the common guy, stances don't matter to most admissions boards ... actions do.  If he's a 19-year old author with a negotiated book contract from Random House and a published book that garners sales, it probably doesn't matter to the admissions board if it's about building birdhouses or about gun control.  BTW, his book holds a #50 ranking in College & University Student Life category, #92 in Civics and Citizenship, and #87 in Education Administration.  It also ended up on the New York Times best-seller list.  Wonder how many other applicants had a book or similar rankings?  Wonder how many applicants to college in general have a published book through a publisher and achieved results?  

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3 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

Not at all.....regardless if one is more liberal than the other (would be interesting to see how this is judged)....they are all liberal.  

What we should question is how Hogg wasn't admitted to some state schools with far less rigorous academic requirements, but was admitted to Harvard.  (where we know his 1270 SAT score was very much an outlier of the typical admitted student)

Was not your point that Harvard being a relatively liberal school was the reason he was accepted?  

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