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IHSAA slap down.

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51 minutes ago, BTF said:

And what does that have to do with anything?

You mean the guys who support the athletic program by attending the games with their friends on Friday nights? Those guys? It doesn't make a difference who is on the team and who isn't. The fans are difference makers. No fans, no athletic program. All opinions matter my friend.

To beat "a" 6a power from the south? Or did you mean the BEST 6a power from the south? Snider has won against Carmel, Warren Central, Ben Davis, Fishers, and Hamilton Southeastern.............and they will again. As their enrollment gets smaller and the Indy Mega's get larger, the wins may be fewer and far between, but there will be wins. But to have a team that is better than EVERY Indy mega power? Your right, it might be a once in a decade thing. It used to be 6 years. Best team in the state  in 1986 (turnovers), 1992 (champs), 1997 (mud), 2004 (injuries), and possibly (I say this cautiously) 2015. Let's just stop pretending that Snider's not a factor in 6a anymore.

As fans, we know the road to Lucas and actually win might be a once in a decade thing. Sure, a run to a 5a title is fun, but there is nothing like knocking heads against the likes of Carmel and Penn.  

I couldn't have said it better myself !!

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9 hours ago, psaboy said:

I couldn't have said it better myself !!

All opinions "matter" but some matter more than others.  While I see your point coming from a fan/alum standpoint, your time commitment to the program is a handful of hours per week.  You attend the games and cheer/support the team.

Telling 15-18 year old kids who bust their asses all summer/fall that you are going to "play up" and take the risk of voluntarily getting spanked when other schools your size are competing for state titles is asinine.  Kids want to win.  Kids who bust their tails DESERVE the opportunity to win.  No disrespect intended to either program but if I am a student-athlete (you know the ones who are actually WALKING the front lines and PLAYING in the games here) and you give me the choice of playing against New Pal in the semi-state (a school of similar enrollment) or playing Carmel (a school double the size of mine) you bet your ass which route I am taking.

Kids graduate.  Success varies at times.  You can't ask a group of kids to sacrifice a deep run because you want to "prove something" or "lose with honor."

Do you work in education?

10 hours ago, BTF said:

And what does that have to do with anything?

You mean the guys who support the athletic program by attending the games with their friends on Friday nights? Those guys? It doesn't make a difference who is on the team and who isn't. The fans are difference makers. No fans, no athletic program. All opinions matter my friend.

To beat "a" 6a power from the south? Or did you mean the BEST 6a power from the south? Snider has won against Carmel, Warren Central, Ben Davis, Fishers, and Hamilton Southeastern.............and they will again. As their enrollment gets smaller and the Indy Mega's get larger, the wins may be fewer and far between, but there will be wins. But to have a team that is better than EVERY Indy mega power? Your right, it might be a once in a decade thing. It used to be 6 years. Best team in the state  in 1986 (turnovers), 1992 (champs), 1997 (mud), 2004 (injuries), and possibly (I say this cautiously) 2015. Let's just stop pretending that Snider's not a factor in 6a anymore.

As fans, we know the road to Lucas and actually win might be a once in a decade thing. Sure, a run to a 5a title is fun, but there is nothing like knocking heads against the likes of Carmel and Penn.  

Well in order to attain the ultimate goal of a state title you would have to beat THE 6A power of the south depending on whom it was going to be that year (Carmel. CG, BD, Warren).  Not saying Snider "couldn't do it" but the 6A state title game has been played long before the teams in Lucas Oil suit up on Thanksgiving weekend most often than not in recent memory.

Facts are facts.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Temptation said:

All opinions "matter" but some matter more than others.  While I see your point coming from a fan/alum standpoint, your time commitment to the program is a handful of hours per week.  You attend the games and cheer/support the team.

Telling 15-18 year old kids who bust their asses all summer/fall that you are going to "play up" and take the risk of voluntarily getting spanked when other schools your size are competing for state titles is asinine.  Kids want to win.  Kids who bust their tails DESERVE the opportunity to win.  No disrespect intended to either program but if I am a student-athlete (you know the ones who are actually WALKING the front lines and PLAYING in the games here) and you give me the choice of playing against New Pal in the semi-state (a school of similar enrollment) or playing Carmel (a school double the size of mine) you bet your ass which route I am taking.

Kids graduate.  Success varies at times.  You can't ask a group of kids to sacrifice a deep run because you want to "prove something" or "lose with honor."

Do you work in education?

Well in order to attain the ultimate goal of a state title you would have to beat THE 6A power of the south depending on whom it was going to be that year (Carmel. CG, BD, Warren).  Not saying Snider "couldn't do it" but the 6A state title game has been played long before the teams in Lucas Oil suit up on Thanksgiving weekend most often than not in recent memory.

Facts are facts.

Just because you can't fathom a world where winning a state championship, no matter what level of competition, isn't the end game for every player doesn't mean there aren't players who would rather take on a greater challenge than keep on going after the same one already conquered.  

I can't pretend to know what every kid would want to do.  I just know what I would want if I were in their shoes.  In your hypothetical you said if you were a kid choosing between playing Carmel or New Pal in semistate, you would undoubtedly choose New Pal.  Let's not forget that this isn't just any random team that would be in this scenario.  To be in that scenario, that team likely would have had just beaten New Pal a couple times on the way to state titles.  Given that, I would almost assuredly want a bigger/better challenge if it were me.  

Are there kids that think like you and just want the easiest path possible to a trophy?  I'm sure there are.  I don't think it's as one-sided as you seem to think though, especially on the teams that are good enough to actually be in that position.  

Edited by XStar

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23 minutes ago, XStar said:

Just because you can't fathom a world where winning a state championship, no matter what level of competition, isn't the end game for every player doesn't mean there aren't players who would rather take on a greater challenge than keep on going after the same one already conquered.  

I can't pretend to know what every kid would want to do.  I just know what I would want if I were in their shoes.  In your hypothetical you said if you were a kid choosing between playing Carmel or New Pal in semistate, you would undoubtedly choose New Pal.  Let's not forget that this isn't just any random team that would be in this scenario.  To be in that scenario, that team likely would have had just beaten New Pal a couple times on the way to state titles.  Given that, I would almost assuredly want a bigger/better challenge if it were me.  

Are there kids that think like you and just want the easiest path possible to a trophy?  I'm sure there are.  I don't think it's as one-sided as you seem to think though, especially on the teams that are good enough to actually be in that position.  

Hit up your local high school and pose this question because this is what it boils down to...

Kids, would you rather extend your season and play 15 games knowing you have a great shot at winning a state title?

OR

Kids, would you rather "play the best" and end your season a month earlier knowing that teams you previously have beaten are taking the above path?

You're delusional.

I used the New Pal/Carmel scenario for an example of the difference in enrollment.  Other than CG, schools in the lower 2000's in terms of enrollment have not proven they can play with the top dogs of 4/5k.  

Can it happen?  Sure.  But the deck is certainly stacked against it.

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17 minutes ago, XStar said:

Just because you can't fathom a world where winning a state championship, no matter what level of competition, isn't the end game for every player doesn't mean there aren't players who would rather take on a greater challenge than keep on going after the same one already conquered.  

I can't pretend to know what every kid would want to do.  I just know what I would want if I were in their shoes.  In your hypothetical you said if you were a kid choosing between playing Carmel or New Pal in semistate, you would undoubtedly choose New Pal.  Let's not forget that this isn't just any random team that would be in this scenario.  To be in that scenario, that team likely would have had just beaten New Pal a couple times on the way to state titles.  Given that, I would almost assuredly want a bigger/better challenge if it were me.  

Are there kids that think like you and just want the easiest path possible to a trophy?  I'm sure there are.  I don't think it's as one-sided as you seem to think though, especially on the teams that are good enough to actually be in that position.  

Good post.

Regarding Snider...…………...I know there was some disappointment bumping back up to 6a. ONLY because Dwenger got bumped up and this would be the FIRST time in that storied rivalry that they would have met in the playoffs. That disappointment is over and done with. Back to 6a and I can guarantee the Snider players are more than happy to knock heads with the likes of Homestead to have another crack at Carmel. If anyone thinks that kids at Snider are afraid at what Carmel brings to the table, they don't know the Snider program very well. New Pal? Been there done that. I'm pretty sure the Snider kids are excited for another 6a opportunity.

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5 minutes ago, Temptation said:

Hit up your local high school and pose this question because this is what it boils down to...

Kids, would you rather extend your season and play 15 games knowing you have a great shot at winning a state title?

OR

Kids, would you rather "play the best" and end your season a month earlier knowing that teams you previously have beaten are taking the above path?

You're delusional.

I used the New Pal/Carmel scenario for an example of the difference in enrollment.  Other than CG, schools in the lower 2000's in terms of enrollment have not proven they can play with the top dogs of 4/5k.  

Can it happen?  Sure.  But the deck is certainly stacked against it.

The deck is stacked against them, you are correct. But that is what makes the victory even sweeter when it does happen. You may be speaking for SOME programs, but not Snider. Snider has victories over Carmel, Warren Central, Ben Davis, and Penn. They've tasted it and know they are capable. I can guarantee you they WANT that challenge. And don't forget, just two years ago Snider was one mistake away from WASTING Carmel late in the 3rd quarter and ended up losing by 2. You don't think they want another opportunity? That's delusional. 

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, BTF said:

The deck is stacked against them, you are correct. But that is what makes the victory even sweeter when it does happen. You may be speaking for SOME programs, but not Snider. Snider has victories over Carmel, Warren Central, Ben Davis, and Penn. They've tasted it and know they are capable. I can guarantee you they WANT that challenge. And don't forget, just two years ago Snider was one mistake away from WASTING Carmel late in the 3rd quarter and ended up losing by 2. You don't think they want another opportunity? That's delusional. 

No one on the current roster has "tasted" anything over those teams mentioned above and they have just THREE victories over MIC schools over the last 25 years.  These kids don't care about that.

This is getting sad.  A bunch of "has beens" and "never weres" speaking on behalf of 15-18 year old kids to get REVENGE because it fits their agenda.  They had a mediocre Carmel team on the ropes a couple of years ago.  A Carmel team who got stomped by Penn whom got destroyed a week later at BD.

Perform the experiment I mentioned above to the current student athletes at Snider and get back to me.  I think you'll wake up.

Edited by Temptation

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The coaching staff says you play where they put you, but there was disappointment in the air. 

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51 minutes ago, Temptation said:

Hit up your local high school and pose this question because this is what it boils down to...

Kids, would you rather extend your season and play 15 games knowing you have a great shot at winning a state title?

OR

Kids, would you rather "play the best" and end your season a month earlier knowing that teams you previously have beaten are taking the above path?

You're delusional.

I used the New Pal/Carmel scenario for an example of the difference in enrollment.  Other than CG, schools in the lower 2000's in terms of enrollment have not proven they can play with the top dogs of 4/5k.  

Can it happen?  Sure.  But the deck is certainly stacked against it.

I think highly successful people think differently than you.  

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, XStar said:

I think highly successful people think differently than you.  

Are the members of the coaching staff referenced above by Robert included in that group?

Only one way to find out.  Perform the experiment and get back to me.

Edited by Temptation

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1 hour ago, XStar said:

I think highly successful people think differently than you.  

It depends on your definition of success, I suppose.  Do we live in a Christian nation?  Do we live in a democracy?  Can minorities be racist?  Depends on who you ask.  

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1 hour ago, Temptation said:

Are the members of the coaching staff referenced above by Robert included in that group?

Only one way to find out.  Perform the experiment and get back to me.

I'm fine with the way things are.  If you think it should change, you're the one that should probably be trying to validate your reasons for wanting to change.  Go find a qualifying team to survey and let me know how it goes.  

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59 minutes ago, XStar said:

I'm fine with the way things are.  If you think it should change, you're the one that should probably be trying to validate your reasons for wanting to change.  Go find a qualifying team to survey and let me know how it goes.  

You are fine but based on the comments above even THE COACHING STAFF is frustrated.  You've been exposed.  

You are fine because you don't have to walk the front lines and actually PLAY in the game.  You are the instigator that starts the fight between guys by convincing your best friend (Snider) that another guy (Carmel) is disrespecting you and YOU should do something about it.  Then once the fight (football game for this analogy) begins, your guy gets stomped while you are in the stands stuffing your face with popcorn and hot dogs.

I'm not saying anything should change.  Just stop pretending that Snider is this big bully that will take on all contenders because they beat some powerhouse programs consistently 20-30 years ago.  That is not how high school athletics works.

Let's say there is a large talent drop off at Snider that lasts 3-5 years.  Should those kids be "forced" to "take on the best" because some clowns in the stands thinks so?

Does the Snider athletic administration give a damn what you think?  You are not going to stop going to the games in protest of them not accepting a challenge to play in 6A.

This seems like a case of you thinking you and your opinions are more important than they are when the kids playing the game matter most.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Temptation said:

You are fine but based on the comments above even THE COACHING STAFF is frustrated.  You've been exposed.  

You are fine because you don't have to walk the front lines and actually PLAY in the game.  You are the instigator that starts the fight between guys by convincing your best friend (Snider) that another guy (Carmel) is disrespecting you and YOU should do something about it.  Then once the fight (football game for this analogy) begins, your guy gets stomped while you are in the stands stuffing your face with popcorn and hot dogs.

I'm not saying anything should change.  Just stop pretending that Snider is this big bully that will take on all contenders because they beat some powerhouse programs consistently 20-30 years ago.  That is not how high school athletics works.

Let's say there is a large talent drop off at Snider that lasts 3-5 years.  Should those kids be "forced" to "take on the best" because some clowns in the stands thinks so?

Does the Snider athletic administration give a damn what you think?  You are not going to stop going to the games in protest of them not accepting a challenge to play in 6A.

This seems like a case of you thinking you and your opinions are more important than they are when the kids playing the game matter most.

 

 

I have nothing to do with Snider.  Never been to a Snider football game in my life.  To my recollection, I've never set foot in their school for any reason.  Try again.  

 

So again, I suggest your take your own advice.  Go find a team playing up and talk to them.  

Edited by XStar

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1 minute ago, XStar said:

I have nothing to do with Snider.  Never been to a Snider football game in my life.  To my recollection, I've never set foot in their school for any reason.  Try again.  

Sorry.  Got you mixed up with psaboy.

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1 hour ago, Temptation said:

Sorry.  Got you mixed up with psaboy.

LOL

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Just now, psaboy said:

LOL

Settle down now.  You co-signed his thoughts.

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Lol, sorry we've offended you Temptation. Good luck to the program you follow.

Much respect to Carmel and the rest of the MIC, it should be a great year. 

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6 minutes ago, BTF said:

Lol, sorry we've offended you Temptation. Good luck to the program you follow.

Much respect to Carmel and the rest of the MIC, it should be a great year. 

1.  Not offended at all.  Just embarrassed for those guys.

2.  I don’t follow a program.

 

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5 minutes ago, Temptation said:

2.  I don’t follow a program.

Lol, ok, now this is starting to make some sense. 

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26 minutes ago, BTF said:

Lol, ok, now this is starting to make some sense. 

It’s much easier to state FACTS and speak rationally when you don’t...

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3 minutes ago, Temptation said:

It’s much easier to state FACTS and speak rationally when you don’t...

It's one thing to state facts based on records, scores, and past history. It's another to pretend to know what an 18 year old at a high school more than 100 miles away from you is thinking. 

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26 minutes ago, BTF said:

It's one thing to state facts based on records, scores, and past history. It's another to pretend to know what an 18 year old at a high school more than 100 miles away from you is thinking. 

I work with 15-18 year olds daily in a diverse similar socioeconomic area compared to Snider.  I have developed a pretty solid rapport with my students.

What do you do for a living again?

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1 minute ago, Temptation said:

I work with 15-18 year olds daily in a diverse similar socioeconomic area compared to Snider.  I have developed a pretty solid rapport with my students.

What do you do for a living again?

That doesn't somehow make you an expert on how a kid who plays football for a school 100 miles away from you thinks. Young men where you are from might be taught about having things handed to them based on fairness. Some kids are taught to compete no matter what hand they are dealt. 

Anyway, your opinion is respected. Have a great night. 

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On 8/2/2019 at 8:23 AM, Temptation said:

All opinions "matter" but some matter more than others.  While I see your point coming from a fan/alum standpoint, your time commitment to the program is a handful of hours per week.  You attend the games and cheer/support the team.

Telling 15-18 year old kids who bust their asses all summer/fall that you are going to "play up" and take the risk of voluntarily getting spanked when other schools your size are competing for state titles is asinine.  Kids want to win.  Kids who bust their tails DESERVE the opportunity to win.  No disrespect intended to either program but if I am a student-athlete (you know the ones who are actually WALKING the front lines and PLAYING in the games here) and you give me the choice of playing against New Pal in the semi-state (a school of similar enrollment) or playing Carmel (a school double the size of mine) you bet your ass which route I am taking.

Kids graduate.  Success varies at times.  You can't ask a group of kids to sacrifice a deep run because you want to "prove something" or "lose with honor."

Do you work in education?

Well in order to attain the ultimate goal of a state title you would have to beat THE 6A power of the south depending on whom it was going to be that year (Carmel. CG, BD, Warren).  Not saying Snider "couldn't do it" but the 6A state title game has been played long before the teams in Lucas Oil suit up on Thanksgiving weekend most often than not in recent memory.

Facts are facts.

I do work in education and coached football for a couple of years.

I agree all players play to win, but they also play to get away from situations, have some structure in their lives, and to be part of something.

Most of the kids that I coached needed a family more than a win.

I guess that is something you can't relate to.  Sorry about that.

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