Grandpa B

On 10/2/2023 at 3:05 PM, Footballking16 said:

Hope Cathedral beats those cowar...errr Royals, 63-0.

People don't forget.

Waited until the end of the game to respond.  Congrats to the Irish.   Dominated every aspect of the game.   

Footballqueen16 - Cowards?  Really?   Roncalli dropped you for valid reasons.  All of them previously stated.   My former namesake "RebelDad" would say more, but I promised a Roncalli Administrator that I would "let it go".   So be it.   

Grandpa B - Former known as RebelDad - Joe Banich 

This reminds me of "back in the day" when I was known as "Rebeldad"!  Had to change my name because we are no longer the Rebels!  Had a former Roncalli Player come up to me last night saying a guy he works with who went to Cathedral said, "do you know whatever happened to that A-hole Rebeldad on the Digest".  I had a good laugh at that.  This is the first time in 20 years that I do not have a son who is either playing or coaching for Roncalli.   Great game last night that was much closer than the score.   Respect that Roncalli and Chatard have for each other is great to watch.  

12 hours ago, DanteEstonia said:

If the income is over $50 million annually, yes. 

But this also assumes that all PPs are equal. Success Factor show that they are not. 

Agreed!  No PP has the equal of $50 million annually.   Some might be in the $200K income bracket, so let's not tax them at 80% (2.0 multiplier)

On 11/28/2020 at 9:33 PM, Purdue Pete said:

SF = Tax rate.

some argue it’s too high.  Some argue it’s too low.  But everyone agrees that there should be different rates depending on ur income / performance.

Well said.  The Tax Rate that DT want to levy on the PPs of a 2.0 multiplier is the equivalent of a 80% Tax Rate.  Does anyone think 80% is, shall I say it, fair? 

21 hours ago, Bonecrusher said:

This is the latest info from just the last several minutes on a Texas football forum - so take it for what it's worth.  Got folk down here stirred up big time.

Charges have been filed - class A misdemeanor.  Player is supposedly in jail with $10K cash bond.  Player is suspended from school for the remainder of the year.  US31 is correct, the school board met with district (conference) officials and they have removed the school from the playoffs.

The UIL (Texas' version of IHSAA) used to require an ejected player to leave the sidelines (i.e. go to locker room), but changed it allowing them to stay on sidelines, just can't play.  This might make them re-think that one.

Not sure in Indiana that he would be sitting in jail on a $10K bond.    We know in New York city he would be out with a no cash bond even if it was a felony.  Maybe something in between the two?   Also not sure about the team being removed from the playoffs.    We punish all becuase of the sin of one?  Interested to see what people think on this.   

7 minutes ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

What about the Lutheran and Christian schools?  They would be in the same boat.   Pretty narrow thinking

You are absolutely correct and my apologies.  Tried to "fix it" after I posted it but you must only have a certain amount of time to "edit" a post.    

1 hour ago, Whiting89 said:

Split private and public into there own tournament

private is 2 classes big and small

public goes on as is now 1-6 with success factor

will create parity and easy to implement 

 

 

Well I knew it would not take long for you to post your "Kick out the Catholics" take.    As stated in all my previous posts, you might have 5% of the Administrators and few if any walking the halls of the IHSAA headquarters that support this.  But you keep trying!  

On 11/30/2020 at 10:27 PM, HoosierFB_JG said:

DT knows very little about X’s and O’s and uses these hot takes to keep himself relevant.

While I agree he know very little about X's and O's, he knows even less about the Jimmy and Joes who are the primary reasons for success in a PROGRAM.  

2 hours ago, FastpacedO said:

It is not a misprint just a misinterpretation of the wording. I will explain to you and @Grandpa B from when I inquired about the Shamrock Scholar Program with the director of admissions 8 and 9 years ago when looking to send my children to Cathedral. It specifically states "Shamrock Scholar grantors choose to provide a quarter, half or full need-based tuition assistance scholarship" not "Shamrock Scholar grantors choose to provide a quarter, half or full tuition assistance scholarship". It is not for a quarter, half, or full tuition of $15,756. It is for quarter, half, or full need-based portion of tuition (or financial aid). So if a family applies for financial aid for the $15,756 and it is decided to give $8,000 in Financial Aid the donor's for the Shamrock Scholar are providing a quarter, half, or the full of that $8,000 (so $2,000, $4,000, or $8,000 just an example).

 

Alumni and families donate in many ways to the Financial Aid funds, the amount awarded in Financial Aid is determined by an application process that comes from tax documentation. What Shamrock Scholar allows is for the donors not only to give money for Financial Aid but to be more involved than just donating money for Financial Aid and becoming a mentor for the child receiving financial aid. That is what was explained to me when I inquired while looking t send my children there. Hope that helps without the "fireworks"😆

Yes Cathedral does sponsor events at many of the deanery schools. There is a reason for that. Cathedral actually was one of the original Archdioscese High Schools and located downtown Indianapolis opening in 1918. Long before Sacred Heart was built 1930 (renamed Kennedy in 1966), Scecina 1953, Chatard 1960, Chatrand 1962, Ritter 1964, and Roncalli formed from consolidation of Chatrand and Kennedy in 1969. Those schools were being built because of overcrowding of Cathedral High School. The Archdiocese decided to close Cathedral's doors and the school was reopened by alumni who moved it to it's current location. Cathedral has long standing roots with all of the deanery schools across Indianapolis. There are many legacy alumni names from all of the deanery schools. That is why still to this day sponsor events in North, East, South, and West deanery schools.

 

Nobody will ever deny that kids attend Cathedral from all 4 of those deanery's. And yes there have been families from West Deanery schools that have sent their kids to Roncalli and Chatard same as East Deanery, but that was the choice of those families (some of which are legacy kids that had parents that attended Roncalli or Chatard). 

Greatly appreciate the response (and one not laced with jams at Roncalli).  I still have one question.  Can a student receive both financial aid from Cathedral and vouchers from the state.?  My understanding is that COULD almost equate to going to the school for free.   As I previously stated, (prior to the jams by IndianaWrestlingGuy), that is a great benefit that Cathedral can provide (especailly to low income families) if true and one in which I hope someday Roncalli could provide.   My understanding is that Roncalli students can accept either Vouchers from the state or Financial Aid from Roncalli but not both.   Thanks for helping to clarify.  

13 minutes ago, IndianaWrestlingGuy said:

Couple things:

1. Yes, we’ll take any and all kids from the Indy or Lafayette archdioceses, especially kids from St. Jude. And, guess what, so will Roncalli. Chatard has more St.Michael kids on their roster than Cathedral does. Facts of Northside Catholicism. Be thankful you don’t have to deal with any other high school or archdiocese. Hope someone starts one down there, so actually have to work for the kids. The Lafayette Archdiocese locks Chatard and Cathedral out from all their grade school kids, which is half of the Northside Catholics. Roncalli, on the other hand, has no competition. That is why is has been such an embarrassment for you the last 8-10 years while your program flailed. With 8 captive feeder schools. 
2. I’m on the enrollment committee of CHS. I can guarantee that no one has a free ride there. We market accordingly for Sharmrock Scholars to attract diversity (race, religion, and academics). And, we do our best to get close in the most dire situations. But every kid pays something. It is part of our philosophy. I.E. If your parents made you pay for a part of college, you certainly worked for better grades. Same goes. Less than 33% of our population gets aid, so you can back those numbers out as much as you want. 
 

I will say it is good to see Roncalli back! Finally, the Rebel grads are rearing with new confidence. State-gilded with a new championship and feeling their oats on the GID. Since you have a great new coach, maybe he’ll schedule Cathedral again since you dropped us 6 years ago and have wanted nothing to do with us. Come and get it. 

Now that is exactly the response I was betting on!  You did not disappoint.  What I so loved about your post:

1. "especially kids from St. Jude" - that must feel good especially someone on the enrollment committee to get a kid from Roncalli's backyard.   Do you make marks in your belt when you nab one?  

2. "Such an embarrassment for you in the last 8-10 years while the program failed"  -  Let me give you a math lesson.  2020-2016 is 5 years ago.   Guess what Roncalli won 5 years ago.  Something that Catheral last won before both won this weekend.  Give up?  A State Championship.  So spear me your "failed program comments". 

3. "I can guarantee that no one has a few ride" - well I would suggest you edit your Cathedral websit (you being on the enrollement committee and all) since it clears emplies that.  He is the direct quote for you to have edited: "Shamrock Scholar grantors choose to provide a quarter, half or full need-based tuition assistance scholarship for a student for the duration of their time at Cathedral (generally four years)"

4. "Since you dropped us 6 years ago and have wanted nothing to do with us" -   I am pretty sure you know (being on the enrollment committee and all), why Roncalli dropped Cathedral.  

53 minutes ago, DL6 said:

Just because you don’t like that I’m calling it out doesn’t mean it’s “completely false and laughable.”

I mean, it even says so on the school website... “ Shamrock Scholar grantors choose to provide a quarter, half or full need-based tuition assistance scholarship for a student for the duration of their time at Cathedral (generally four years).”

The above is copied directly from https://www.gocathedral.com/giving/cathedral-fund/supportshamrockscholars

In addition, your claim that poor old Cathedral only pulls from north deanery schools is also bogus. Your Mr. Football candidate quarterback went to St. Roch (south deanery), your D1 sophomore TE went to St. Michael (west deanery), not to mention the multiple public school kids on roster.

Cathedral also invites every student from the archdiocese, not just north deanery, to attend their open house. Cathedral is a sponsor of the south deanery parish I belong to- Nativity- and consistently attracts students from there.

I can also add that I’ve sat down with a Holy Name family frustrated that Roncalli could not match the financial aid package Cathedral was offering them. The kid went to Cathedral for free. 

These are facts. If you want to call them “irresponsible” and “laughable,” then I don’t know what to tell you.

7 minutes ago, DL6 said:

My intent was not to confront or cause any fireworks, but rather to inform. Private and Parochial schools are simply not the same and I thought I could help people understand what the differences are.

As I could have guessed, there are clearly folks out there that don’t want these differences to be communicated to the public!

I absolutely believe that was your intent.  I would just after 15+ years like to know the truth.   and as I said, if they are able to provide free tuition, good for them.  Gives them an advantage that I wish Roncalli was able to provide.   and not just to athletes, as I would like to think that Cathedral (if they do provide free tuition), provide it to non-athletes as well.   I hope someday that Roncalli will be in that position.  

I like the concept.  How about having the classification be based upon the number of Senior Males enrolled.    Can you even get those numbers?  If you can, I wonder what the classification would look like.   Those schools in social/economic challenged school districts would be placed in a class where they could better compete. 

30 minutes ago, DL6 said:

Just because you don’t like that I’m calling it out doesn’t mean it’s “completely false and laughable.”

I mean, it even says so on the school website... “ Shamrock Scholar grantors choose to provide a quarter, half or full need-based tuition assistance scholarship for a student for the duration of their time at Cathedral (generally four years).”

The above is copied directly from https://www.gocathedral.com/giving/cathedral-fund/supportshamrockscholars

In addition, your claim that poor old Cathedral only pulls from north deanery schools is also bogus. Your Mr. Football candidate quarterback went to St. Roch (south deanery), your D1 sophomore TE went to St. Michael (west deanery), not to mention the multiple public school kids on roster.

Cathedral also invites every student from the archdiocese, not just north deanery, to attend their open house. Cathedral is a sponsor of the south deanery parish I belong to- Nativity- and consistently attracts students from there.

I can also add that I’ve sat down with a Holy Name family frustrated that Roncalli could not match the financial aid package Cathedral was offering them. The kid went to Cathedral for free. 

These are facts. If you want to call them “irresponsible” and “laughable,” then I don’t know what to tell you.

Well well.  DL6 when you were a Freshman at Roncalli I was in some pretty heated battles with the Cathedral faithful here regarding the "full need based tuition".   I even posted messages on the Digest that if certain parents would show me canceled checks for "a half or even a quarter tuition payments" that I would hold a sign out front of the entrance to Cathedral that said, "Joe Banich is a liar".   I believe a post of mine may have even gotten me banned from the Digest for a time.  As stated before, Rebel Dad was much more Confrontational than Grandpa B. 

Now your posts  just makes me want to know if some athletes (or flute players in the band) go to Cathedral tuition free.  I looked at the website and it clearly states just that.   My take is a little different if that is true.   15 years ago when Roncalli was losing to Cathedral in the first round of the Playoffs, I was in the "hate/envy" category.  If this is true, 15 years later, I would put myself in just the "envy " category.  Good for them if they can do just that.  Would be nice if they do have athletes going there for free to actually say so.  Heck, might even get you better athletes or flute players if it is more well known (if true).  

Now I will sit back and watch the fireworks start.   When I saw the response that someone said your comment was "completely false and laughable", I was just waiting for your response.   

P.S. No one from Cathedral ever took me up on my offer 15 years ago.  

Should have quoted DL6.  Fixing that now. 

2 hours ago, The TW said:

Some meandering thoughts:
 

The main separators for consistent success seem to be:

1. Strong feeder program, preferably with the varsity head coach having some influence

2. Access to funding either through the school or the families

3. Program tradition

The schools that are most commonly represented Thanksgiving weekend typically have at least two of these traits. The best private and parochial schools have all three (as does Carmel, Center Grove, Penn, etc.). But all legacy programs HAVE to have at least two. It always cracks me up when I see people from schools with one or none complaining about the P/Ps. Moving the P/Ps up a class would only result in trading one master for another. 
 

It’s worth noting that not all P/P schools even have two, which is why it is imprudent to treat all P/Ps the same.  
 

I have coached at Roncalli, Chatard, Ritter, Scecina, Brebeuf, Broad Ripple, Howe, Beech Grove, and Southwestern, boys and girls. Roncalli is by far the easiest place to coach, even though so few D-1 athletes have come through the program. The kids are loved at home, well-fed, and provided access to supplemental training. They start playing flag football in pre-school and dream of when it will be their turn to run out of the woods. As a coach, you can fall back on the “been there, done that” approach to selling your vision. Those things don’t all happen overnight, and key components can be missed with kids that transfer in. That’s why there have been so few non-south deanery CYO kids starting on the school’s ten state championship teams (this coming from a non-CYO starter on a state championship team). We had 1 player this year from outside of our feeder system - a number I would hold up against any of the other 11 finalists.

 

There is merit to the fact that P/P schools are mostly filled with involved students who have chosen to be there. While at Broad Ripple, we had over 1,500 kids, but less than 100 seniors (less than 300 juniors). We were a 5A team competing with 2A resources. That’s before we get to the fact that many of our kids were getting picked up at 5 am, dropped off at 8 pm, and largely only eating what the school provided. 
 

Socio-economics factors would be the best way to determine classifications. That will never happen because it’s not easy. In the meantime, it’s not fair for us to say “Get better or get used to it” without acknowledging the privilege we enjoy. At the same time, it’s pointless to complain if you haven’t first taken care of your own backyard to the best of your ability. 

I think this about "says it all".   This coming from someone who has coached both PP and Public schools - inner city Indianapolis Schools.    Most striking comment was Broad Ripple had 100 seniors in a 1500 enrollment.   I continue to support a system that moves schools down based upon a forumula that I do not believe we be that hard using categories like seniors enrollled, Free and Reduced Lunches (yes I know about the number at Ben Davis and Warren and you could account for that somehow).  

3 hours ago, The TW said:

The latter situation has been remedied. 

It has indeed!  

2 hours ago, coachkj said:

The schools have an obligation to the hundreds of families who pay good money to send their children to the p/p schools to keep the environment to the families expectations.  Again, believe it or not, winning state championships is pretty far down on the list of reasons why parents send their kids to private schools. 

Well said.  Well said indeed.  Had one Son who played in 3 State Championship Games.  Had another Son who never won a Football Sectional Game.  Never sent our kids to Roncalli for trophies but for the other 10 things that are on "the list" ahead of that.   

45 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

So an avowed non-Christian with $ and a very fast 40-yard dash time can enroll at any of these p/p schools with no issues?

 

If their parents have the $10,000+ dollars, or they qualify for vouchers.   Just as "an avowed Non-Christian with $ (or vouchers) and a very strong vocal cords, drummer, or say avowed chess player.   Really just any "avowed non-Christian with $ or vouchers.  

On 11/28/2020 at 9:31 PM, Staxawax said:

I guess we’ve established that doughnut county schools are “metro” area. So that’s 8 of 18.

OK.  Just a hard time calling Western Boone and New Palestine as Metro Area.  But ok, 8 of 18.

20 minutes ago, Whiting89 said:

Yes because I want to see parity but it’s doubtful this will happen. 

Success factor give you parity.    This is what most people that have a "say" in this matter think.  Most of those are at the  IHSAA and School Administrators.   Not sure you will ever get more than 20% of the people in that category to support not having the PP in the tournament.  I would be surprised if it is more than 5% today.  

8 hours ago, Football50dad said:

Fair point about the sectionals, but how do you achieve that?  Even though Chatard or Cathedral and Roncalli are on opposite sides of Indy, that typically is close enough to legitimately be in the same sectional. I think if you intentional separate Chatard and Roncalli next year, there will be plenty of complaints from the other 4A schools that feel they shouldn't have one or the other in their sectional

If you have Lebanon and Western which are in Sectional 22 which is north of almost all of the teams in Sectional 21, it would not be hard at all to separate Roncalli and Chatard.

7 hours ago, foxbat said:

In the last year before SF, 2012, PP won four of five titles (80%), four of four where it was possible for PP to play (100%), placed six teams out of ten total (60%) and six out of eight (75%) where it was possible to play.  Here's what it's been since then ... so yes, SF has blunted the influence and dominance of PP even with the outlier of 2020 figured in compared to the last season with out SF.

This should put comments regarding the "success" of the Success Factor to bed.  But we know it will not.   The "HE crowd" want to see 17% or less each and every year.   

8 hours ago, Whiting89 said:

No I’d prefer seeded statewide playoffs like Illinois 

plus Indiana being a midsized state makes no sense. I think the only state that has northern and southern is California and that’s like 5 states in 1.

 

I belieive that you would prefer not to have the PP schools in the tournament.  I think you made that perfectly clear in prior posts.  

6 hours ago, DT said:

 

Munster replaced Hall of Fame Coach Leroy Marsh with an inexperienced assistant and the program is dead after two seasons.  Absolutely DOA.  Its a real travesty.  

 

 

 

Saying an "Inexperienced assistant" replacing a HOF Coach killed a program in two seasons is the real travesty.   In two years he killed the entire grade school, freshmen, and JV PROGRAMS.   You make the same incorrect statement about Marsh replacing Scifres at Roncalli.   If you are not actually part of the program I would suggest you take your ill informed comments elsewhere.  

1 hour ago, TheDoctor22 said:

I know Cam Jordan (one of their many great receivers) has D1 football offers. Sounds like he's an even better baseball player though.

As Stax said, they will have close to double digit D1 kids by spring. OL has several D1 prospects, couple linebackers, one of the DL, the sophomore TE will go high-level power 5. Tons and tons of talent on that Cathedral team.

And they may not have been recruiting Marion county 15 years ago but they certainly are now. Their QB attended Center Grove before Cathedral. And he was a St. Roch kid prior to that, so you're backyard.

Guess we will just have to see about how many D1 players Cathedral has.   Regarding the "St. Roch Kid" recruited out of our backyard, we are more than OK with that as we ended up with Aidan Leffler for four years as our Varsity QB!   We have one more year to go with Aidan.   and he is a Nativity grad in our backyard!