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I think we got it now.

Why is it so hard to accept that private school families are just better than public school people?

IHSAA:

You say that like it’s a bad thing.

Everyone assumes another 4A sized INDY school (Cathedral) can arguably be the best team in the State almost ANNUALLY but hardly anyone is willing to grant that another 4A sized school (East Central) which is actually a Cincinnati suburban school (when you drill down just a bit....where some of the best football in the country is played) can't EVER possibly be the best team in Indiana...or, at least, contend for it. Let's be clear, CalPreps has them #2 in Indiana currently. 4A New Pal was more than likely the best team in the state just a few short years ago - Indy suburbs. God forbid a smaller school outside of the Indy metro might be any good. Most everything I read here (and from the peanut brains on Facebook) reflects the overall myopia towards 6A, Indy, Ft.Wayne and the Region (God forbid). An added irony is that those in the Cincy Metro most likely chuckle at we Indiana hayseeds when we scoff that a Cincy suburban team...the best team in the Cincy tri-state (who's address just happens to be in Indiana) somehow just doesn't measure up.

Come on, who you kidding??? A Memorial Mom isnt doing laundry.....the maid is!!!

Try Brad's brass flamingo Plenty of tvs to put the game on

I know who my money is on!

May be an unpopular opinion - but I for one am fine with the sectional classifications. I think it is beyond awesome this game is taking place as a semi-state match-up rather than a first or second round sectional game.

Our conference is about to go back to 4 private schools, 4 public schools. We dont have time to complain about any advantages there may be against us. We play who is in front of us. The names on the front of they jersey mean absolutely nothing on the football field. It is still 11 on 11 football. Our schedule this coming year... Greencastle and Linton OOC, and then Ritter/Scecina/Covenant Christan/Lutheran as well as Triton Central/Speedway and Beech Grove. We believe this schedule gets us ready to play anyone in our tournament.

So I'm not sure I qualify as the guy you are looking to answer. My parents both had Catholic education all of their life with my mom finishing from a Catholic college and my dad leaving Catholic college for the military and then finishing from a public university. I went to Catholic school through 6th grade and then did public school for everything else through college. Two of my kids have attended Catholic school, but all have also been homeschooled and attended public schools ... my three girls from Jeff and my oldest son finishing at Harrison this year and the youngest probably attending Harrison part-time for high school. Nonetheless, I've been thinking about this issue for a bit and frankly, haven't yet been able to come up with a set of items that works for the argument as to why p/ps, in general win, that can then be applied across the board. What I have been leaning toward though is something akin to the idea that it's less categories and more programs. When I look at the issue in short timeframes, like this thread does every season, it's fairly easy to generalize. Even when several short-terms are pieced together, that generalization is easy, but some things don't seem to specifically match up with the general premise. With that said, I'm coming at this very much so from an Indiana perspective with some additional insights from Texas and Louisiana; but mainly Indiana. The premise has often been, if there isn't some advantage, then how does x percentage win y percent of the time? @Bobref has pretty much trademarked on GID that correlation doesn't necessarily indicate causation. That got me to thinking through some things that, rather than focusing on the generalities and trying to make an all-encompassing theory, I'd look at some case studies and try to work from there. Also, and I don't recall who it was that asked the question in another thread, but what got me thinking about this was a general question that was asked about 6A ... which was never really fully answered or even really solidified. The question was, and is very similar to the question first posited in the thread, "Why is it that only four teams/programs have ever won 6A?" It went on to, and rightly so, point out that there weren't similarities between the schools as there are differences in size, FRL items, communities, offenses/defenses, etc. It just kind of ended up as a mystery. Four teams out of roughly 40 teams that have been in and out of 6A since its inception 11 years ago, roughly 10%, have not only won SOME of the titles, but ALL of the titles in that class. What is the categorization that defines that four programs that you could "bottle" or is it something much more complex that can't fit on a bumper sticker? So let me start and see if the idea can perhaps be expanded by others with some real discussion on things. The program that I'm most familiar with is LCC. A couple of my kids attended Catholic school until the 3rd and 5th grade, but I coached in a youth program there for 18 seasons. LCC first started playing ball back in 1958. As seen in a couple of other threads currently in play, while LCC has a mystique about it that has it mentioned as a storied p/p powerhouse, it's really been about the last 15 years or so that LCC has probably earned that mystique. It entered into a storied four-peat era back in 2009-2012, but prior to that, it was pretty much feast or famine according to season outcomes on Harrell's. So I'll ask the first question that catches my eye with LCC and the statements often made about p/p in general. If p/p have the automatic advantage, why did LCC have such gaps between its pre-four-peat timeframe? Starting from 1976, until 2009 ... a 34-year period ... LCC got out of sectionals four times with gaps of 13, 10, and 6 years between each. Incidentally, in every season for LCC, until 2021, when their season ended without a state title, it came at the hands of public schools ... only the last three seasons, in 2A, has LCC's season been ended by another p/p. BTW, not just one p/p-killer public school, although Pioneer has a storied tradition for jousting with LCC, but over a dozen public schools have delivered deathblows to LCC's post season. So if the idea that there's an inherent p/p advantage that LCC has, then why was it not there in force in the 34-year period and, probably more importantly, what were the MANY public schools doing that was causing LCC seasons to end really early in that timeframe? Of course, Noll is always mentioned. Noll has a very storied past in that it never seemed to have any p/p mojo outside of 1989 when it won 3A. Outside of that, according to Harrell's, Noll made it to a sectional championship only three times, never making it out of the sectional, and has been ousted in the first game of sectionals for the last decade ... all by public teams. Ritter has an amazing past. Five state titles with three in 1A and two in 2A. For a long time, they were one of the poster children for p/p dominance, but now, closing in on a decade, no one whispers their name anymore. Their last state title was in 2016; however, since then, they haven't made it out of a sectional. They've also not even been close oustings. The closest they got was this year's 23-point second sectional game loss to Eastern Hancock. Maybe they have a string of "bad classes" ... the opposite of those "good classes" that public school lament might SF them unfairly into the next higher class ... but, for all of the talk about p/p mojo, four losing seasons in the last seven and three of the last four would seem to indicate that reloading, which is fairly automatic for p/p schools as I've been told, would seem worrisome and not in line with the meme. Heritage Christian ... an often forgotten p/p ... maybe because they aren't Catholic. Only has around a two-decade history history according to Harrell's. Has back-to-back state appearances in 2007-2008 with one blue ring. Outside of that, two sectional titles in 2019-2020. Has a mix of being ousted by both public and private schools. Fairly good records, but not really drawing any of the p/p ire directed at the categorization as a whole. Culver Academy has been around since the mid-1980s, yet only has a pair of sectional titles spaced a decade and a half apart ... 2000 and 2015. Again, almost never referred to or draws the ire of the p/p category and I've NEVER in over two decades of being in Indiana ever once heard anyone talk about the unfair advantage that Culver Academy has, not only as a p/p, but a p/p that has had students on its rosters from foreign countries! Wanna talk about recruiting or being outside of a youth program circle? Also, Culver Academy used to be Culver Military Academies, so I'm pretty sure that their lack of state titles wasn't due to not being competitive. Again, I don't have a specific answer to your question because the general answer that folks hope is given doesn't fit with all of the categorization. Just the subset above actually refutes the generalized statements that tend to be made. Also, I see the issue as being more complex than many of the bumper-sticker takes that have been bantered around. I think there's something to be said for focused, driven groups in a school, but similarly, I would contend that Noll, LCC, and others have been equally focused, driven, etc., if the narratives are to be fully-embraced, but the outcomes don't seem similar. With that said, what I think MAY be an issue is that there may be advantages that come from said make-ups, but that they aren't uniformly autonomous and that what's actually happening, which dovetails back into the 6A questions is that programs, and not necessarily categories, have figured out how to wield/harness the power as opposed to demographics. I also believe that, and Ritter and LCC look like interesting cases for this, that while a program may be able to leverage some type of advantage, it isn't necessarily something that's inherent and automatic by birthright of categorization and, for example in the case of Ritter, it may be something that isn't eternal.

Nobody in SW Indiana has had more football move-ins than Gibson Southern and Reitz over the last several seasons. Those are facts. I guess it’s not called recruiting since the school is free?

Yes sirrrrr!! After tonight one team starts making preparations for Indianapolis while the other turns their muddy, grass stained, maroon and gold uniforms in for the last time.

Holy hell! I hope the rest of the teams playing in the semi state don’t suck as bad as these guys. I gotta go

I believe I am going on close to 5 years since I turned on any sort of ESPN/FOX/NFL network talk show, pundit show, insert loud mouths in front TV type show. Its all garbage and meant to illicit responses and clicks, ESPN is on my TV for live sports that is it.

Said by Laville Supporter during Laville’s first possession at the front gate. “These boys don’t know how to play big boy football” Minding my own business.

I know. Just waiting for the IHSAA to do the right thing and success-factor Center Grove to Ohio.

only the prayers of Gibson Southern fans

Just offering friendly advice to the good people from North Decatur. Forgot to add: If you do get your car towed for a broken taillight, remember to pay the impound fee in cash (small bills) to make it easier for the lot owner to split the fee with the officer who wrote the ticket.

Three p/p schools, whose total constituency make up probably around 10% of the football playing schools in the IHSAA, have just taken home 50% of the available state championship trophies. The p/p hegemony continues unabated, with the "success factor" doing little more than rearranging the deck chairs. This will continue as long as the IHSAA stubbornly sticks to a primarily enrollment based classification system, and not a system that truly measures the historical success, or lack thereof, of Indiana high school football programs.

Hahahahaha....you wanna talk about "EGO!?!?" How much of an ego do you need to have to just honestly believe "we win because we just WORK HARDER, have a better FEEDER SYSTEM and it is our CULTURE." Like no one else has figured out those things. That, sir, is an EGO.

No one even mentioned Matt Canada. ................ In other news, Tom Allen just finished a Bahama Mama and now getting ready for sunset dinner at The Stoned Crab.........

Not so fast my friend....

Gimme Snider in each one of these contests…maybe even straight up against Cathedral.

As soon as what’s his name and a few others start talking about free lunch and crap like that

all of the top 4a was busy gang banging 5a when memorial got to the party :L

I appreciate the words. Everyone on this end understands the buzzsaw we are running into.....the speech has already been given to shut out all the media and frankly those in the community that see it as an impossible feat. In 2019 the boys were being congratulated on a great season before the game in Indy was even played. They were defeated mentally before they got there. I'll steal one from the Gibson Southern playbook here...."IB".

I'm not upset your rankings are your rankings (as are other peoples opinions/rankings). East central absolutely has an opportunity to crown themselves 4A State Champions. East Central had more than 1 quality win over Moeller. Harrison (OH) was a solid Ohio Div 2 team they lost in Regionals to Anderson (13-1 and #1 seed in Region 8 who will play Massillon Washington in the Semi-Finals to get to the Div 2 title game against likely Archbishop Hoban. They also put a running clock on Lawrenceburg (only a year removed from playing for the 3A State Title but not as good this year). Blanked Batesville who ended up losing a tight one to Heritage Hills in Regionals. Running clocked Evansville Memorial in Evansville a week after they knocked off undefeated Evansville Reitz. Shutout a solid but not great New Palestine team. They also beat a Roncalli team but similar margin as Cathedral and Louisville Male. Would they have an unblemished record playing Cathedral, Ben Davis, Brownsburg, or Center Grove's schedule probably not. They would hold their own with that schedule though, they play who they had to play in conference play and beefed up their non-conference games (not their fault Roncalli wasn't as strong this year as the last 2 years). They still played and beat quality opponents along the way, and left no doubt against the teams they should beat. Regardless the only title they will be able to get is the 4A title. You'll be thoroughly impressed with how they play on Saturday. Northwood will trot out some athletes, but East central will be up to the task and put their best foot forward. They are very well coached too which does not get mentioned much. The awe of Brotherton and Ringer usually gets mentioned, but Maxwell had a pretty darn good game against New Palestine.

That has now made the Final Four in Ohio Div. 1.

I’d still give CG and Brownsburg the nod over East central

Hats off to the Knox fans. They traveled well. Great turnout. Good fight from your boys. Best of luck next year.

Coach, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you don’t know the history of Chatard in 4A….but it’s going to be Tolstoy in length…but hardly as literary…I’ll leave that to @Muda and his misspelled acronyms. For the record, anyone bothering to read this likely should grab a cup of coffee. For the record, nobody is any less happy about Chatard being in 3A than Chatard football fans….at least this one, anyway. Pretty sure I represent a majority, though. With that, 4A is not always better than 3A..but it is in most years. Regardless, either 3A or 4A is almost always better than 5A – I include in this the 70% of the time 5A is ACTUALLY WON BY A BUMPED UP 4A TEAM. If Chatard could somehow ultimately claw its way through 4A into 5A, I doubt it would ever leave 5A. With that, let’s start with a recent history primer of Chatard in 3A and 4A (4A boldfaced and underlined😞 2013: (Year 1 of the Success Factor with 4 Points required to stay in 4A) Chatard wins Sectional v. Roncalli 28-8. They lose Regional, in a game that was decided late, v. New Palestine. This year was the start of New Pal’s great success under Coach Ralph. Their Chatard win was the first statewide sign something special was cooking there. Chatard earns 1 point. 2014: Chatard rolls over and supines itself to Roncalli 31-6 in Sectional after beating them 20-7 in the regular season. No further comment. Chatard earns 0 points…back to 3A. 2015: Chatard wins 3A State 2016: Chatard loses to Danville in 3A Sectional (Coach Vince Lorenzano’s last year) 2017: Chatard loses to Danville in 3A Sectional (Coach Rob Doyle’s first year) 2018: Chatard loses 3A Semi-State to Evansville Memorial…admittedly losing ugly. 2019: Chatard wins 3A State (CalPreps had Chatard ranked #3 All Classes…New Pal was ranked #1 All Classes) 2020: Chatard wins 3A State (CalPreps had Chatard ranked #6 All Classes). For the record, they beat later 4A state champion Roncalli 28-7 that year (Roncalli’s sole loss). 2021: Chatard loses to Roncalli in 4A Sectional 35-21. Lest folks forget, this was the year Roncalli with their monster line (just coming off a State Championship) was talked about much like East Central today….until they lost in an upset to Mt Vernon (who easily won State). Chatard earns 0 points. 2022: Chatard is put back in 3A (don’t ask me why…I still don’t understand it). Chatard wins 3A State. This is the history. Chatard has only ever been in 4A for 3 years. They’ve only been knocked out of 4A once in 2014 where they needed 4 points to stay up. That said, in 2024, have no doubt the slack jaws at the IHSAA will put Brebeuf, Chatard, Roncalli, Cincy Elder, Cincy St.X and Cincy Moeller in the same Sectional….or dream about it, anyway. Regardless, Brebeuf, Chatard and Roncalli WILL be in the same Sectional….because…. In its absolute worst years, Chatard will almost always be a top 5-10 4A team (I believe they should be in the North...for the record). Frankly, Chatard doesn’t seem to experience the same high/low swings Roncalli does. Still, historically Chatard will almost always also split 50/50 with Roncalli…who has a bit of a tradition, as well (but tends to have bigger “lows” than Chatard does in off years). When Roncalli is “good”, they’re “State Champion good”. Regardless, I have been told until my ears bleed that the IHSAA DEEPLY evaluates these Sectional groupings considering a multitude of factors including historic conferences…..yada, yada, yada….BS, BS, BS….smoke blowing up my hindquarters. Which has always been used to explain just how Roncalli’s next door, talking over the fence neighbor New Palestine is never paired with Roncalli in Sectional…but 45 minute North Indianapolis cross-county Chatard is ALWAYS paired with Roncalli. That said, can’t the IHSAA figure out a way to simply put Chatard, New Pal and Roncalli in 3 different Sectionals? Just that little effort would likely keep a prolonged and forever peace in 3A. Tragically, the IHSAA has continued to give us year after year the “Sectional of Death” in 3A (copyright to @foxbat) or equivalent which, by any consideration, is gerrymandered as Hell but always has Chatard in the crosshairs (along with every Indiana HS Catholic north of the Mason Dixon line)….but ultimately screws over tons of great teams like TV, HH, WL, Guerin and too many teams to mention. I’m still p!ssed off as to how badly Tippecanoe Valley was screwed over between Sectional pairings and the damn ping pong balls. I have no doubt they will continue that proud tradition into 4A next year…wherever those Catholic Schools might be. If the IHSAA truly gave a sh!t about the principle behind the Success Factor shouldn’t it ALSO be a consideration in that DEEP evaluation of Sectional pairings…or do you just let another equivalent of the 3A TW AD (some of you get the “code”) make the pairings in 4A as well? Up to this point, the IHSAA Sectional pairings appear nothing more than self-interested groupings by those school administrators involved in the decision making process with no actual consideration of the overall picture….those non-decision makers get the “Sectional of Death”. I’m as angry as anybody about Chatard being in 3A (whether they win or lose this Friday…or possibly the following week). The Success Factor can actually work if the IHSAA actively considers the principle behind it as regards Sectional groupings. I say this as someone who was a very vocal sceptic…just ask Coach Gallogly. If they don’t, and just allow it to become the playground for self-interested 4A ADs…like those behind the "Sectional of Death" in 3A, then nothing will be resolved. My guess is that, ultimately, those involved in the decision process at the IHSAA will most likely place self-interest over principle come Sectional announcement time. Please, prove me wrong. You can now return to the original thread....

Good God…get over yourself and the imputed false virtue….it’s boring and way too self-congratulating. My best bet is that you’ve never heard of Laurel, Indiana (God forbid got liquored up there at the Long Branch, rode/wrecked dirt bikes there…or have pre-teen scars from the muffler burns), long closed Whitewater HS…..or Fairfield, Indiana where my relative’s unremembered farm and family life is at the bottom of a reservoir. Being “from” a place doesn’t make anyone special….whether large or small. Neither does being a pretentious @sshole….whether large or small.

My only concern is for the safety of the Snider players…how many D1 players at Merrillville this year?

To go along with the recruiting talk, I guess GS is recruiting in the playoffs...that Deyoung kid is a good late season pick up. I mean, he is good enough to sit Delong on the bench.

This is why you don’t go to coaches for your rules information. First, and most obviously, one of the requirements for offensive pass interference is that there actually be a legal forward pass during the down … which there obviously wasn’t here. So, not throwing the flag for OPI was not a “mistake by the officials.” Secondly, the video I saw showed the receiver and the DB lock up initially when the receiver came out to block/pick him. But contrary to what you quoted the Coach as saying, the DB was not attempting to fight through the pick. After the initial contact, the receiver tried to run past the DB, who grabbed and restricted him as he was trying to run past him. That video supports the “garbage call.”

Coaches don't even have to recruit to stockpile talent, parents and kids aren't dumb. They know where to go.

You left out her 40 yard dash time. Also please upload a video of her running a 3 cone drill and refer to her as a “Dawg” as often as possible to let people know that you are serious.

We call that play the "Jett Keep".

oh now, of course you can, if you choose to my friend. Im just a meathead elementary PE teacher, me no need good grammar

https://vrlstyl.com/zolik/Hgt5p-1-1-1-1 Nice holiday gift option Temp. Link above.

Good luck this weekend PAC. Hope to see 3 wins.

As someone whom went through the NorthWood program...raised a child through the NorthWood program and is now a fan of the NorthWood program...I have never seen a comment such as BDOOM's from a NorthWood supporter...or really from anyone in the last 24ish years on the GID. Don't throw all of us in the basket with that fella.

Just want to give a public congrats to our 3 sectional champs from the PAC and best of luck to all in a deep postseason run. While tasting defeat is something I’ll never be good at- we (SR) can at least take solace into the fact the 3 teams we lost to this year are all still playing. Go represent the conference and win Regionals so hopefully we can have some local semi-state games!

it was in fact his daddy's triton trojenz.

IU 20 - Wisconsin 14 final The utter mediocrity of the Big 2, er Big 10, reared its ugly head again today. Brutal game to watch, somebody had to win. Dreading seeing the “celebration” video coming out of the IU locker room after this one…

Just wanted to give a Congratulations to all the teams that won a Sectional Championship tonight. Well deserved.

How many people on here know who you’re talking about? How many people know what he’s referring to when he talks about “the Hun?” 🤣😂😅