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foxbat

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    Harrison (West Lafayette)
    Lafayette Central Catholic
    Lafayette Jeff
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    North Central Conference
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  1. Not sure I understand the impetus for the thread nor even the LCC example. I'm pretty sure about the most I've ever heard anyone say about a program is that they might have won the class above them that year as opposed to pretending that their title in their class makes them more than just that, the state champion in their class. I'm not sure that 6A feels in the least "diminished" because a 3A school is also called a state champion along with the winner of 6A. I'm also not really sure that the response to 6A school winning a state championship if they played a 1A team would be much more than, "duh." Of course, there are other issues with the proposal despite the straw man example of a 6A program beating a successful 1A school. In 2019, there's a good argument that 5A New Pal likely would have clipped 6A Carmel even though Carmel won 6A. Your proposed idea would have done exactly what, I'm assuming in spirit you are proposing to not have happen: let a "poser" call themselves state champion.
  2. Does that also include the implied value of the "free" faculty parking you get on the fourth row of the student parking lot? Lord, I apologize for that there.
  3. Of those six schools, four ... TPC, RCA, ISD, and Dugger Union ... moved to 8-on-8. Another wrinkle in the 32 for 1A also becomes that the vast majority of schools that will play 8-on-8 will be 1A schools and you may have some movement up as well. Faith Christian just started playing football for the first time and did so as an 8-on-8 program and has already decided, after one season, that they want to play 11-man next season. Granted, they aren't eligible for post-season due to their newness, but I bet that if 1A went to 32, ISD might just jump back into the fray in 11-man. And they played 11-man for over two decades in 1A, so they wouldn't necessarily be a "newcomer." Would that then push someone out of 1A in that rotation or would there be a +1 in one of the sectionals?
  4. I'm kind of the opposite. Coming from large school, Texas football ... my alma mater boasts some 3,000+ students in a school district that has like 10 6A schools ... I admit I had a big school bias in football and was very used to the idea of qualifiers and split p/p and public leagues. Coming to Indiana over a couple of decades ago, this small school ball, 1A/2A, has quite grown on me as well as the all-in. I still like watching big school games every once in a while; especially since my kids have attended Jeff and my sons play or will play at Harrison, but I still go and take in 1A/2A games each season just for the fun of it.
  5. I'm not sure that's the only thing as there are still bragging rights games, traditional rivalries, etc., but there's some truth to that. Coming out of Texas where the rankings are done based on standings in a district, you could be in a 10-team district and see your season ended by the 3rd game unless you pull an inside straight. There were still rivalry games and "sister school" games that motivated teams to play on later in the season, but sometimes you were already looking a year into the future before that stench started to rise in the locker room. In Texas, we never thought much about districts because they were already set for you. The state put you in, somewhat, geographic proximity with other same-size schools. Think of the sectionals for Indiana at 1A-4A. I'd conjecture that while everyone's talking about seeding/qualifiers, the one thing that I think Indiana's missing is "How will it impact conference structure?" If random draw goes away and that supposedly automatically brings about qualifiers, then I'd also expect the a number of conferences to go away or completely realign from their current forms ... especially those that are mixed class ... and not through an organic process that we see now.
  6. That's conjecture. You'd have an argument if Monrovia made it to the second round or even the sectional final and lost, but in essence, Monrovia did what everyone says you have to do to take that crown; they eventually played the best in that sectional and beat them. As for seeding them, go ahead and seed them. It's not costing Indiana anything extra as there is already that "10th game." Whether it's guaranteed terminal or guaranteed "near terminal," it's still on the books. You can certainly argue about whether the schools get a "take" of the 10th game, but that's relatively easy to work out. Again, I've still not seen the reasoning that all-in only works with a random draw. Perhaps it eventually leads to folks deciding to create a qualifier, but it's not fact that it only works with a random draw. And maybe it does lead to a qualifier and maybe folks just say, "That's pretty much what we expect the first round to be and now it is pretty much guaranteed." It just seems odd to me that there are statements of conjecture as fact and wanting to skip to the "foregone conclusion." What does it hurt to seed first and see where it goes?
  7. I've heard this said before as if it's fact, but I'm not seeing the logic behind it. To be realistic, when we watch March Madness, very few folks expect that #16 seed to get to the Sweet 16 or, in many cases, even beyond the first round, yet everyone still watches and hopes and prays. Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure there hasn't been a #16 seed in the history of the tourney that has declined to play because the odds are against them. Yes, the #16s still had to make a "cut," but outside of FDU and UMBC, #1 vs. #16 is 150-2. In essence, they likely weathered the play as well as #70 that didn't make the Dance cutoff would have or possibly even #100 or possibly even #120. All in, with a seed basically does what others are saying, makes the regular season more important, but not live or die important, while still allowing for lots of chances for the Cinderella story to happen, even if the Prince picks Cinderella for a mosh pit song. The 10th game basically becomes a first round elimination of, as some would call them, "posers" and then moves on to the things at hand. Incidentally, answering the question "What's the difference between Monrovia's 2022 and 2020 2-7 regular seasons?" is the reason I'm an all-in fan. Doesn't happen often, but it's enough to make me see it as having the 10th game of the season played as a tourney game.
  8. Harrison used to have THS on its non-con calendar back around 2020-2021, so it's not a foreign concept. If I were the Sagamore though, I would hold off on grabbing the Terre Haute schools as I suspect they might have better options; especially if someone like West Lafayette joins. With that, you'd only need a couple of other teams to make an 8-team conference, and you could almost afford to be pickier at that point. I suspect that the NCC, which claimed it kicked Harrison and McCutcheon out due to travel and "competitive balance" will likely turn their sights on Jeff once they realize that they look just like the two folks they kicked out. Jeff might not be too far off from being #6 or #7. If West Lafayette joins and Jeff's a potential, I suspect the TH schools would be in the running only if the conference wanted to get to 10 teams ... which I'm not sure they would want.
  9. True, but we aren't overly worried about championship games on Fridays/Saturdays for our SDA and Jewish players/families?
  10. Yeah, but these are the same guys that had four points to stay up, then two, now three ... what's one Sunday among friends? Or the IHSAA? 🙂
  11. Officially, probably not, but a large number of p/p students are Catholic and we Catholics have vigil/Saturday Masses for weekend obligations. Here in Lafayette/West Lafayette you can catch Mass at 7:00 pm and 9:00 pm on Sundays, during the school year, at St. Tom's. I don't think it would be as much an issue for a single weekend; especially if there's a rotation of classes on Sunday.
  12. If WL leaves the HC, it would likely singularly shift the dynamic of the conference to a small school conference even with HH and Western still in the conference. For a while, it was often seen as a conference that punched above its weight class. If WL left, and with RCHS going back to 2A and with BC dropping down from 3A to 2A a few seasons ago, that would leave no one in the West in the "bigger school" moniker in the West. Even with HH and Western in the East, that would be seen as a circumstance as opposed to a feature of the conference. That Harrison schedule that you've laid out is a much better set of matchups than they had annually in the NCC, although probably still problematic for a 6A school. The schools that benefit most from a WL move and the schedules you've laid out are WL and McCutcheon. Jeff mainly benefits not from the schedule, as they still get to hang out in the NCC primarily, but from the fact that they are moving down to 5A.
  13. Not a bad move given the circumstances and (lack of) options. Harrison has already played Tri-West in the undercard games, so there's some activity already there. Given about three additional slots to fill, it may provide some addition interest from others to round that out. Still provides Harrison the ability to pick up an additional five games out of conference right now which they will need to help them compete in their move to 6A. They will be facing West Lafayette this year for a third consecutive season and that has to be a benefit for both in terms of having an extra "home" game even if if they are away. They may still put Jeff on their schedule too, which both teams need, but frankly given that Jeff voted Harrison out of the NCC, I'd almost like to see Harrison find another 6A opponent to scratch that itch; especially if West Lafayette will be a continued opponent locally. Harrison also has Brebeuf this next season which is also a nice pick-up. Don't know if that's just going to be a home-and-home, but would be interesting to see if that evolves. Harrison has actually played several of the Catholic schools on undercards including Chatard and Cathedral as well as now getting Brebeuf and playing Roncalli in the past as a varsity fill-in game during COVID. Those schools aren't going to leave the Circle City, but as non-con games for Harrison, they would be nice matches.
  14. Texas used to do something like this wherein, after their teams were determined for the post-season, the top two teams in a district were placed in Division 1 and the 3rd/4th team were placed in Division 2. All teams in a district were the same class, so you'd have, for example, two 6A Division 1 schools and two 6A Division 2 schools coming out of a district. Was easy to do, but also had some lopsided number in the division because, in one district you could have four of the smallest teams in the state playing and thus, the top two teams in the district would be, likely, playing against much larger schools. They've since changed things where they assign the schools to divisions before the season starts based on enrollment. As such, Division 1 schools will be the biggest schools regardless of district. You can see cutoffs here: https://www.texasfootball.com/article/2023/12/08/breaking-uil-announces-enrollment-cutoffs-for-2024-26-district-realignment. Texas played 12 championship games this past season; two divisions across six classes. Took them four days to do it at AT&T Stadium ... three per day starting on Wednesday, but they weren't dancing around Thanksgiving though. I can't imagine Indiana doing four days worth of games ... and definitely not over Thanksgiving.
  15. I've heard this before, but I'm trying to wrap my head around where this has happened that didn't have something wonky attached to it, perhaps outside of Cathedral. And even in the case of Cathedral, I don't think they've ever returned to their enrollment class, 4A Chatard's "move down" from 4A was based on a single season when the IHSAA implementing a COVID review and sticking them in a sectional with Roncalli. LCC moved down because the points to stay up was four points at the time. I'm trying to think through who else has yo-yo'd, perhaps outside of Pioneer ... but that's a public school and they've been 2-8 and 5-5 since moving back down and haven't made it past a first-round game. Even folks like Linton and Scecina that went up on SF were large enough after the fact, moving from 1A to 2A, to remain in 2A regardless of SF. Adams Central will end up being the third such school. Matter of fact, in 1A so far, there have been seven total instances of teams being SF'd up to 2A, with LCC being the only one to yo-yo ... again because of the four-point rule: LCC - The first and has been SF'd twice and a member of the inaugural class. Moved down once because the cutoff was four points as mentioned above. Moved back up as one of the first team's to be SF'd by doing worse in their second year of the cycle than the first in 2021. Picked up three points in the current 2A stay. Will be remaining in 2A for the next cycle. Scecina - Moved up as a result of picking up 6 points in the inaugural SF class in 2013. Up until this last season, the only team to be SF'd without a blue ring. Adams Central just joined that distinguished club. Scecina has never moved back down as a result now of enrollment. Linton was SF'd in the 3rd SF class since no one in 1A picked up enough points in the second SF cycle to be bumped in 2017 season. Like Scecina, has never moved back down as a result now of enrollment. Pioneer finally SF'd in 2019 after three straight appearances at LOS netting two blue rings and a red. Remained in 2A for 1 1/2 seasons before COVID half-season sent them back down to 1A. As noted above, haven't escaped a first round 1A game with a win since. Adams Central just joined the Scecina/Pioneer having three straight LOS appearances combined with no blue rings. Will likely not end up coming down as they are likely to join the other distinct club: the Linton/Scecina club where they get SF'd and get too big to come down regardless of SF. Lutheran just joined the Pioneer club along with the WeBo club in that they had three straight LOS appearances and also picked up three straight blue rings. Will see need to wait to see if they don't weather 2A, but last year they likely could have easily gotten to 2A semi-state. As such, since the end of the 2012 season, six programs in 1A have been SF'd with the very unique situations of two-thirds of the programs being bumped in just a pair of SF cycles. Of interest is the mix is three p/p and three public. Only two 1A teams out of six have returned, LCC and Pioneer, and, in the case of LCC, it was because the requirement was four points to stay. Technically, LCC is the only one to really yo-yo and, again, due to the four-point rule. With the data points, I'm not seeing 1A at much risk; especially if the argument is that the p/ps have enormous benefits, as SF will address it and, the potential discrepancies at the lower levels are much more likely to NOT have p/p programs returning back down from a 2A environment.
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