Stoner

Game was scoreless--lightning in the 4th caused cancellation.

8 hours ago, dazed and confused said:

Could Chatard bump up voluntarily just for football ? dkja (dont know just asking)

Sure they could. The option to move up a class in a single sport has been available since the inception of class sports.

1 hour ago, Just a dad said:

I am a huge fan of the “We are the poor oppressed” argument here and the P/P’s are the oppressors. It is the cry of every group that currently loves to hang and wave their flag of choice. The unfortunate part is that it ends up sounding like whining. I miss the old days (like pre-pandemic) when it was “Underdogs vs the Favorites”. When the underdogs would swear to fight like hell in the face of odds seemingly stacked against them. Their victories were the victories of underdogs everywhere. We celebrated the victorious underdog. Today that underdog goes by the name of the oppressed. They whine and cry about things being “fair”, need safe spaces and call everyone who has a differing opinion a name or pejorative of some sort. They love to “pwn” people and, in the end, nobody cares when they actually win because society is tired of dealing with the insufferable twerps. 

Now leave me alone cuz I need to find my VHS of Villanova Basketball beating Georgetown in the NCAA finals. 

If you miss the old days, then you can go back to the cluster system, when the oppressed Catholic schools in Marion County sued the IHSAA because they were all put in the same sectional.

Oppression crosses all boundaries and decades.

Most people looked at South Putnam beating North Judson in the state finals in '86 as a big upset. South had never had a winning season until the year before, and was only 5-3 going into the tourney--Judson was unbeaten and had been #1 in class all season.

Southmont 22 Cascade 21 ot F

6 minutes ago, SL816 said:

5 downs? Did you not read Bob's explanation?

After the IW, Laville had the choice, by rule, to replay the down and they did. The clock was reset to where it was at the start of 2nd down. No extra down was given. The optics weren't good, but the crew did nothing to take the game away from Andrean. 

Didn’t read about a clock reset (edit: sorry, I see it now)—if it was, then I understand.

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

From my review of the sequence of events, it’s apparent that nothing that the officials did affected the outcome.

Since it took LaVille five downs to run out the clock, I’m guessing Andrean vehemently disagrees.

5 hours ago, Tippy said:

It might be their 2nd best season in school history.  In 1979 TV went 13-0 and won the 1A state title 44-14 over Hamilton SE.  Their closest game that year was 26-7.

Valley’s ‘79 team was incredible. Widest splits I’ve ever seen an offensive line employ, and no one could stop Tim Alspaugh.

Last night, Tippy Valley kicked off, West Lafayette muffed in the field of play, ball went well into end zone—where WL picked up and returned. Play was blown dead on the tackle. Afterwards, I think official realized his mistake, marked ball as a touchback, and reset the game clock. My hypothetical question is, had there been any flags occurring during the runback, what (if any) fouls would be enforced?

Tri-West 26 WeBo 21 F

WeBo 14 Tri-West 12. 1/2

39 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

 In a system that uses a computer ranking formulating W-L record, opp W-L record, SOS, and opponent SOS, no team is mathematically eliminated until the conclusion of the regular season.

Third graders with dull crayons can figure out how wrong that statement is.

57 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said:

Great story. Until this week I didn’t realize OV was the only high school in Owen County. 

OV and their opponent next week, Pike Central, are disproving my theory of single HS county schools don’t have postseason success. (Albeit, Pike Central’s success this year is for a completely different reason than OV)

I assume Owen Valley is a consolidation of smaller HS, maybe Spencer and Freedom had separate schools 50 years ago? 

The 3 high schools that merged in 1970-'71 to form Owen Valley were Patricksburg, Gosport, and Spencer. Freedom and Coal City were Owen County high schools that had closed previously in the mid-60's. Quincy High School in Owen County burned in the 50's--but that is part of Cloverdale school district now.

53 minutes ago, hick said:

Let's keep this on the front page a little longer!

This one might. In the early days of Owen Valley football (early 70's), they didn't have a playable field. They played their home games at Cloverdale. A few years later, they finally got a field built, and had a huge crowd and big ceremonies for the opening night field dedication game. The lead trumpet player marched out to midfield, mic-ed up, to solo the Star Spangled Banner. He missed two of the first three notes, paused, and muttered an "aww F#$@" heard clearly over the loud speakers, before playing flawlessly the rest of the way.

Took it almost 50 years to drop to the second best night in OV football history.

5 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Not with a top 50% qualification format.

6 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Not with a top 50% qualification format.

Move the goalposts. Your previous post alluded solely to seeding. Now it's qualification.

12 minutes ago, Bobref said:

One of the advantages of seeding would be these two teams would play later in the tournament, which would give people from teams already eliminated a chance to see the game. One of the things I loved about working a sectional final or regional was all the letter jackets from different schools you’d see at the game. That’s better for high school football in general.

And one of the advantages currently is you can see a great game each week of the playoffs. I took a carload to Mier last week to watch Guerin/Oak Hill, and a little less than a carload to watch the nut-buster at Owen Valley last night.

You seed it, we'd likely stay home the first two weeks.

4 hours ago, Miner_Pride said:

I think this Southmont team is pretty solid.  Their competition level is pretty good... I mean would anyone in Sect 37 beat let alone compete with WeBo or Tri-West... or Lebanon and usually Danville?  Linton is always a physical team but I'm sure the Mounties saw that in those teams as well.  Linton hasn't come out fast in the last 2 games for whatever reason.  However the defense comes around after the 1st drive, and neither South Put nor South Verm were much a threat.  Of Course Hunter Gennicks has put the team on his shoulders with long TD runs to give Linton a lead and then the Miners wear down the opponent. I don't think anyone should or would underestimate Southmont.  I know most everyone had Linton rolling through this sectional when it was announced... But Southmont is very solid... Sullivan is very solid and I think Cascade is certainly better than their WL indicates.  

Linton and Southmont have only met twice, and it’s been 24 years ago that Linton won at the Roy in 1998 24-21 to even the series 1-1 after a 61-13 Mountie win in New Market in 1997. Southmont does not own a sectional crown in their school history, having only been in three sectional championship games losing all three: 2017 41-14 to Brebeuf Jesuit, 2008 24-8 to North Montgomery, and 1998 47-14 to Western Boone. The Miners are still looking for their 1st sectional title in 2A. They had become a 1A power with 12 sectional titles from 1997 to 2016 and 7 semi state appearances before finally reaching the 1 finale in 2015, then winning it all in 2016.  Linton has reached a sectional championship game just since being moved to 2A. The winner of this game faces the winner of the other semi-final matchup with 6-4 Cascade travelling to Sullivan to face the 6-4 Arrows at Sportland Field. It’s an intriguing game with Sullivan’s losses coming to unbeaten 10-0 Linton and 10-0 Owen Valley, 7-3 Indian Creek in OT and to 4A 6-4 Northview. The Cadets losses to 8-2 Triton Central, 9-1 Indy Scecina, 10-0 Indy Lutheran and in OT to 3A 6-4 Speedway.

Cascade lost their good running back to a broken leg last week. They have some other weapons, but it's not the same.

Southmont is pretty physical, I think they will hang with Linton for a good while before succumbing.

3 hours ago, Tippy said:

Did you tell the Ihsaa not to go to the all-in back in 1985?  I don't remember that many people saying don't do this or being upset about it.  Do you remember what the coaches and players were saying about the all-in back in 1985?  Since you were officiating back then, I figure you might remember what everyone was saying?

Just a quick synopsis as I remember it--the IHSAA was sued by South Bend St Joseph's players because they had failed to make the tournament after going unbeaten two straight regular seasons during the point system qualifier. St Joe lost their case, but the IHSAA went to the cluster system to avoid further litigation from other unbeaten teams. Instead, Catholic Schools in Marion County sued over discrimination due to their cluster grouping, since the IHSAA put five Catholic schools in the same AA sectional (Ritter, Brebeuf, Scecina, Chatard, Cathedral), IHSAA won that lawsuit also, but the cluster was widely despised after year one's results. (Looked this up)--eight 9-1 teams didn't make the playoffs the first cluster year, a dozen 8-2 teams were left out also. Scheduling was a mess, consequently big gates were lost, and conferences were wrecked. Amzie Miller at New Prairie hated the cluster, and was the driving force behind the all-in playoff. The schools overwhelmingly voted in favor of the all-in. The school vote in Northwest Indiana's District 1 was 40-0 in favor of the all-in playoff. The state's other four district's votes were not unanimous, but overwhelmingly in favor also.

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

Yeah, that’s the reason there hasn’t been a rush by other states to follow the Indiana example … in the last 37 yrs.

https://www.record-eagle.com/sports/mhsaa-might-let-all-football-teams-into-playoffs/article_2609f56e-2798-11ec-ad9b-43ee49087bdc.html

6 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Why does every other state, sans 1 or 2 others, have a qualification format? Where does the entitlement to playing a “tenth” game come into play? High school football is a privilege not a right, why shouldn’t a postseason birth be earned?

 

I really wouldn't know--you'd have to individually ask the other state's associations.

But if I was guessing, I would imagine that there are some who have toyed with the notion of an all-inclusive tournament, but the logistics plus the time constraint of the sport seasons make it non-feasible.

55 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

Those who want a qualification system seem to be forgetting the main focus and purpose of high school sports. 

Can't like this one enough. It's supposed to be education-based athletics. And whether you get straight A's or straight F's during the year, you still take a final exam.

50 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

 You won't find another postseason format in any sport at any level where this is the case outside postseason tournaments that the IHSAA put on. 

Missouri's high school football tournament is all-in. There are a few basketball state tournaments that are all-in beside ours.

44 minutes ago, Irishman said:

@Stoner Good work....thanks for posting that. I think there are flaws to ANY system that requires qualifying for the playoffs. The IHSAA under Bobby Cox, in my opinion was way ahead of the game in going the all in path. 

 

That said, I am curious though...and just playing devil's advocate with this; so please don't take this as me attacking the post. Looking at a number of teams on the list where the season ended with a sectional title, how many of their playoff wins were against teams who were ranked similarly or lower in Sagarin's algorithm? 
Just as an example of my question, 
"1995 Lapel (1A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 39th of 54, Ranked 3rd in Sectional"

With either 7 or 8 teams in a given sectional at that time, how many teams did Lapel play that were ranked lower than them? 

 

 

 

I really didnt have time to look at much of that. I did look at West Vigo in '85--Crawfordsville did the dirty work the week before beating Zionsville, 2-0. Sagarin had Zionsville ranked 18th including all classes--then West Vigo came back from 17 down in the last 10 minutes to beat Crawfordsville the following week. I did look to see if a sectional couldnt possibly have had a winner in the top half of Sagarin, I think the one Rockville won was that way, but that was the only one I recall.

Had a couple hours this afternoon, so I worked up sectional champions (and beyond) between 1985 (start of the all-in tournament) and 1999, that were in the bottom half of the Sagarin Ratings in their respective class at the end of that regular season. In other words, these are the teams that would not have made a tournament had the field been cut in half by Sagarin Ratings before the tournament started. Class A usually had less than 64 teams in class, which alters things a bit. There could well be a few schools I missed here, but I don't think many.

Here Goes:

1985 West Vigo (3A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 50th of 64, Ranked 5th in Sectional

1986 Rensselaer (2A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 43nd of 64, Ranked 6th in Sectional

1987 Center Grove (5A Sectional and Regional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 33rd of 64, Ranked 3rd in Sectional

1987 Northwood (3A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 35th of 64, Ranked 2nd in Sectional

1988 Evansville Central (5A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 34th of 64, Ranked 5th in Sectional

1988 Logansport (4A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 33rd of 64, Ranked 4th in Sectional

1988 Northwood (3A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 37th of 64, Ranked 2nd in Sectional

1989 Andrean (4A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 43rd of 64, Ranked 3rd in Sectional

1989 Greensburg (3A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 47th of 64, Ranked 4th in Sectional

1989 Tri County (1A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 32nd of 57, Ranked 4th in Sectional

1990 Evansville Harrison (5A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 46th of 64, Ranked 5th in Sectional

1991 Manchester (2A Sectional Champs), Sagarin  Class Rank 38th of 64, Ranked 5th in Sectional

1991 South Putnam (1A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 29th of 56, Ranked 2nd in Sectional

1992 Cascade (2A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 45th of 64, Ranked 3rd in Sectional

1993 Charlestown (3A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 40th of 64, Ranked 3rd in Sectional

1994 Harrison (5A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 45th of 64, Ranked 6th in Sectional

1994 Rockville (1A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 34th of 55, Ranked 2nd in Sectional

1995 Brown County (3A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 36th of 64, Ranked 4th in Sectional

1995 Leo (2A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 45th of 64, Ranked 6th in Sectional

1995 Lapel (1A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 39th of 54, Ranked 3rd in Sectional

1996 Charlestown (3A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 40th of 64, Ranked 3rd in Sectional

1996 FW Luers (2A Sectional, Regional, and Semistate Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 39th of 64, Ranked 5th in Sectional

1997 Northwestern (2A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 33rd of 64, Ranked 6th in Sectional

1998 Arlington (5A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 33rd of 64, Ranked 3rd in Sectional

1998 Jeffersonville (5A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 45th of 64, Ranked 6th in  Sectional

1998 Yorktown (3A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 38th of 64, Ranked 6th in Sectional

1998 Lake Station (2A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 33rd of 64, Ranked 2nd in Sectional

1999 Muncie South (4A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 41st of 64, Ranked 3rd in Sectional

1999 Mt Vernon Posey (3A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 41st of 64 Ranked 5th in Sectional

1999 Lawrenceburg (2A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 33rd of 64, Ranked 3rd in Sectional

1999 Clarksville (1A Sectional Champs), Sagarin Class Rank 35th of 62, Ranked 5th in Sectional

On 10/2/2022 at 10:10 AM, Impartial_Observer said:

I believe West Washington has been involved in two OT anomalies. 
The pick-six game and the infamous 1/10@25 in OT incident and someone scored on their fifth snap and the other team didn’t score in their four snaps. 

It wasn't OT, but a handful of years ago, South Putnam's stud running back got ejected in the season finale @ Cascade, and the IHSAA played Sgt. Schultz and let him play in the sectional opener at West Washington.

Weird stuff happens down there.