DL6

1 hour ago, FastpacedO said:

It is not a misprint just a misinterpretation of the wording. I will explain to you and @Grandpa B from when I inquired about the Shamrock Scholar Program with the director of admissions 8 and 9 years ago when looking to send my children to Cathedral. It specifically states "Shamrock Scholar grantors choose to provide a quarter, half or full need-based tuition assistance scholarship" not "Shamrock Scholar grantors choose to provide a quarter, half or full tuition assistance scholarship". It is not for a quarter, half, or full tuition of $15,756. It is for quarter, half, or full need-based portion of tuition (or financial aid). So if a family applies for financial aid for the $15,756 and it is decided to give $8,000 in Financial Aid the donor's for the Shamrock Scholar are providing a quarter, half, or the full of that $8,000 (so $2,000, $4,000, or $8,000 just an example).

 

Alumni and families donate in many ways to the Financial Aid funds, the amount awarded in Financial Aid is determined by an application process that comes from tax documentation. What Shamrock Scholar allows is for the donors not only to give money for Financial Aid but to be more involved than just donating money for Financial Aid and becoming a mentor for the child receiving financial aid. That is what was explained to me when I inquired while looking t send my children there. Hope that helps without the "fireworks"😆

Yes Cathedral does sponsor events at many of the deanery schools. There is a reason for that. Cathedral actually was one of the original Archdioscese High Schools and located downtown Indianapolis opening in 1918. Long before Sacred Heart was built 1930 (renamed Kennedy in 1966), Scecina 1953, Chatard 1960, Chatrand 1962, Ritter 1964, and Roncalli formed from consolidation of Chatrand and Kennedy in 1969. Those schools were being built because of overcrowding of Cathedral High School. The Archdiocese decided to close Cathedral's doors and the school was reopened by alumni who moved it to it's current location. Cathedral has long standing roots with all of the deanery schools across Indianapolis. There are many legacy alumni names from all of the deanery schools. That is why still to this day sponsor events in North, East, South, and West deanery schools.

 

Nobody will ever deny that kids attend Cathedral from all 4 of those deanery's. And yes there have been families from West Deanery schools that have sent their kids to Roncalli and Chatard same as East Deanery, but that was the choice of those families (some of which are legacy kids that had parents that attended Roncalli or Chatard). 

Great post, and thanks for the explanation. I stand corrected. I have been told by a few people I know that they attended Cathedral “for free,” but I have no evidence of that and if what you’re saying is true, then it’s likely they weren’t completely honest with me. Thanks for the info!

13 minutes ago, tango said:

What do you mean by this?  

They advertise at the school and sponsor events (festivals, athletic events, etc.).

Just one way Cathedral is different from parochials. For instance, Chatard is restricted from doing something like this because Nativity is a south deanery parish and Chatard is a north deanery high school.

You’ll find plenty of students at Cathedral from the south deanery. Very few (if any) at Chatard.

1 minute ago, IndianaWrestlingGuy said:

Do you think Geico saves you 15% every time for your 15 minutes? Umm, no. Welcome to marketing. 
 

We’ll pluck a McCahill or a Montefalco or a Gillum out of south side every once in while. Usually only when they are the most talented student-athlete down there. 

Talking about “plucking” kids, specifically because they’re excellent athletes, seems like a bad look for someone on the enrollment committee.

My hope is those kids made their school choice based on what was best for them and their families (I believe that’s true as all are excellent kids of high character whom I have a ton of respect for), not as a result of “plucking” by the enrollment committee.

10 minutes ago, IndianaWrestlingGuy said:

Couple things:

1. Yes, we’ll take any and all kids from the Indy or Lafayette archdioceses, especially kids from St. Jude. And, guess what, so will Roncalli. Chatard has more St.Michael kids on their roster than Cathedral does. Facts of Northside Catholicism. Be thankful you don’t have to deal with any other high school or archdiocese. Hope someone starts one down there, so actually have to work for the kids. The Lafayette Archdiocese locks Chatard and Cathedral out from all their grade school kids, which is half of the Northside Catholics. Roncalli, on the other hand, has no competition. That is why is has been such an embarrassment for you the last 8-10 years while your program flailed. With 8 captive feeder schools. 
2. I’m on the enrollment committee of CHS. I can guarantee that no one has a free ride there. We market accordingly for Sharmrock Scholars to attract diversity (race, religion, and academics). And, we do our best to get close in the most dire situations. But every kid pays something. It is part of our philosophy. I.E. If your parents made you pay for a part of college, you certainly worked for better grades. Same goes. Less than 33% of our population gets aid, so you can back those numbers out as much as you want. 
 

I will say it is good to see Roncalli back! Finally, the Rebel grads are rearing with new confidence. State-gilded with a new championship and feeling their oats on the GID. Since you have a great new coach, maybe he’ll schedule Cathedral again since you dropped us 6 years ago and have wanted nothing to do with us. Come and get it. 

Ok. Sorry to upset you. Was just quoting your website (which very clearly states that full tuition is offered through the program.)

If that is a misprint on the website, then I hope it is corrected.

And literally the best player on Cathedral’s team this year is from St. Roch, so I’m not sure where you’re going with the “Roncalli doesn’t have to compete for students” narrative.

8 minutes ago, Grandpa B said:

 If this is true, 15 years later, I would put myself in just the "envy " category.  Good for them if they can do just that.  Would be nice if they do have athletes going there for free to actually say so.  Heck, might even get you better athletes or flute players if it is more well known (if true).  

Now I will sit back and watch the fireworks start.

My intent was not to confront or cause any fireworks, but rather to inform. Private and Parochial schools are simply not the same and I thought I could help people understand what the differences are.

As I could have guessed, there are clearly folks out there that don’t want these differences to be communicated to the public!

On 12/1/2020 at 6:28 AM, IndianaWrestlingGuy said:

This is completely false and laughable. I can only speak to Cathedral on this slight, but there isn’t a single kid that goes to Cathedral “for free” unless they are the child of a teacher with tenure.  

Just because you don’t like that I’m calling it out doesn’t mean it’s “completely false and laughable.”

I mean, it even says so on the school website... “ Shamrock Scholar grantors choose to provide a quarter, half or full need-based tuition assistance scholarship for a student for the duration of their time at Cathedral (generally four years).”

The above is copied directly from https://www.gocathedral.com/giving/cathedral-fund/supportshamrockscholars

In addition, your claim that poor old Cathedral only pulls from north deanery schools is also bogus. Your Mr. Football candidate quarterback went to St. Roch (south deanery), your D1 sophomore TE went to St. Michael (west deanery), not to mention the multiple public school kids on roster.

Cathedral also invites every student from the archdiocese, not just north deanery, to attend their open house. Cathedral is a sponsor of the south deanery parish I belong to- Nativity- and consistently attracts students from there.

I can also add that I’ve sat down with a Holy Name family frustrated that Roncalli could not match the financial aid package Cathedral was offering them. The kid went to Cathedral for free. 

These are facts. If you want to call them “irresponsible” and “laughable,” then I don’t know what to tell you.

37 minutes ago, Football50dad said:

I am glad to see that the P/P debated has shifted away from recruiting/cheating.  I can acknowledge that their is an advantage at a private school that doesn't exist at public schools.  For instance, a few years ago, at my 20th reunion, we did a tour of the updated school. Included was a run down of student body information. It was stated that 91% of students at Chatard participated in at least one extra curricular activity (fine arts or sports)

 

What I hear very clearly from this post is that fact.  What I don't understand is why we can't acknowledge that the SF is at least a very large portion of the solution. It needs to be tweaked, but it is a very good start.  In my opinion, there is little doubt that Chatard belongs in 4A. To answer the questions I read all the time about why Chatard doesn't volunteer to move up- why should they? Any good coach will teach the same thing, "play by the rules, and beat the guy across from you".  

 

I think we need to figure out the correct threshold to move up and stay up or go back down.  Some schools are moved up because they have that one great class, others get moved up, and fail to stay up simply because of a down year (which I have heard Chatard might have next year).  I think the energy and effort should be aimed there. 

 

 

Spot on. The Success Factor hasn’t kept Chatard and Roncalli up a class because the IHSAA refuses to separate those two in the sectional when they’re both in 4A (next year). Same can be said for when Roncalli moved up to 5A. Cathedral was in their sectional while New Pal went north.

Want to keep Chatard/Roncalli/Cathedral up a class? Quit putting them in the same sectional for a big $$$ gate. It screws up the purpose of the success factor.

4 hours ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

Great explanation.  I do have a question.  

From what I see here, no student can leave their deanery to go to high school.  That seems pretty restrictive.  In South Bend/Mishawaka it is open enrollment between St. Joe and Marian.  I believe there is not tuition difference with any students attending those schools.

So the advantage to Indianapolis Catholic schools is much less that first thought.

On a side note, you should be able to attend any school you want in the diocese.  

 

That’s a good question, and one I’m not certain of the answer for. You may be able to attend an “out of deanery” diocesan school without having to pay higher tuition, but I’m not positive.

Having said that, with Indianapolis being the size it is, none of the high schools are close to each other, so attending a school out of your deanery would require pretty significant travel. Not sure if that’s the same case in South Bend? I could be wrong.

30 minutes ago, BigBH said:

the difference is the offensive lines...if you have a big kid and have 10-15k scratch to send your kid to those schools they have many 5' 8" scrappy white kids that will happily run behind them....public schools we look around hoping more big boys show up.....any yes the 6A schools have big boys  but the coaching of technique is not the same

Every student-athlete on Roncalli’s offensive line attended a South deanery grade school. This has been the case for at least the last five years if memory serves...

Maybe those Catholic grade school lunch ladies are slipping something in the Fish Sandwich lunches during Lent? It’s possible.

15 minutes ago, Whiting89 said:

Educate me further

public-cannot deny enrollment you live a predefined area you have to be accepted 

private parochial-have to pass an entrance exam?

tution cost?

can control enrollment?

Having taught/coached at a parochial school, I can’t recall the school ever turning away a student without serious reason (expulsion from another school). Enrollment control at a school like Roncalli does not happen. If it does, the head basketball coach is confused why the school decided to let enrollment bump the basketball team up to 4A after he was hired 🙂

There is a tuition rate for parishioners of churches in that school’s deanery, and a tuition rate for non-parishioners (i.e. non-Catholic private school kids) which is higher. To put it simply, it’s similar to publics... if you did not attend a deanery grade school (the gradeschools near the high school), you have to pay (pay more in this case).

There is not an entrance exam at parochial schools. There is a “placement exam” that determines which classes a student enrolls in and provides a small academic scholarship to the top 10 students that take it.

I completely expect DT, Muda and the like to read this and change their viewpoints on parochial schools 🙂
 

Maybe parochial schools should only have a 1.2765389 multiplier applied?

It’s always been interesting to me that private and parochial schools are grouped together as “PP” on this site when their enrollment process is tremendously different.

Not sure what the difference is? Let’s start by looking at Indianapolis...

There are four parochial (archdiocesan) schools in Indianapolis divided by north, south, east, and west deaneries with feeder grade schools. Those schools are Chatard (north), Roncalli (south), Scecina (east), and Ritter (west).

The majority of students at these schools (and football players) attend their “feeder” deanery schools. As a southsider, I can only speak for Roncalli but 21 of their 22 starters are from south side Catholic grade schools. The one exception is a linebacker from Perry Meridian who followed Scott Marsh when he came to Roncalli from Perry.

This is completely different than a private school, such as Lutheran, Cathedral, Park Tudor, or any other non-parochial private school in Indianapolis. These schools “attract” students from across Indianapolis and operate under different financial aid rules than parochial schools. For instance, Roncalli accepts vouchers OR financial aid qualifications, but not both. This means if a student qualifies for the voucher program and Roncalli’s financial aid program, they have to choose one or the other. This is not the case at private, non-parochial schools in Indianapolis, which is why kids are able to attend those schools for free.

Not sure if this helps anyone understand the difference, but thought I would share as someone who has worked in private education who is confused by the “private/parochial” grouping, as those two distinctions operate completely differently.

Parochial schools like Roncalli do not hold a “recruiting” advantage. Roncalli just won 4A state by 42 points but will have zero seniors playing division 1 football next year, while Hobart has two or three.

This is not to say that parochial schools do not have an advantage socio-economically. But there are plenty of public schools that share that advantage as well (CG, Carmel, Zionsville, Fishers, etc.).

2 hours ago, DT said:

Marsh was run off of campus and you were fortunate to have Rburg in town to come in and clean up the mess.  It is what it is.  RHS is the biggest PP in the state and has the resources to quickly bounce back.  I expect you to throttle Hobart.  But you are clearly up to your old strategy of minimizing Roncallis successes as a means to protect their potential to play at the lowest competitive level possible.  I cant see how that is in anyones best interests, and frankly Im surprised your cohorts have not called you out on the issue

I dont hate anyone or anything.  I see, I evaluate, I comment.  

The players I listed did not leave because of any “scandals.”

Schott and Lezon’s fathers work at Southport. The Montefalcos have long been a Cathedral family. Fryar’s father coached at Beech Grove. Sparks’ family moved north. Not sure what McCahill’s reasoning was but know his dad was a great athlete at Scecina, so maybe has some ties from the east side.

These are facts, not opinions. So “evaluate” all you want.

Scott Marsh was a fantastic coach as is John Rodenberg. In Marsh’s first year, Roncalli was ranked #1 in 5A and only dropped close losses to Decatur Central and Cathedral. He then helped a really young roster mature and improve over the next two years, and Rodenberg has done a fantastic job keeping that positive momentum going.

For the record, no one at Roncalli holds ill feelings towards any of these kids. No kid should ever be judged for choosing where they want to go to school. Proud of the success they’ve all had!

10 hours ago, DT said:

RhS still had good teams in the later scifres years.  Not great teams.  The wheels came off after BS left

Roncalli’s successful years and down years are ALWAYS determined by one, simple indicator... are they able to keep all (or at least a majority) of the talent in their feeder schools (south deanery grade schools) at Roncalli.

In 2016 and 2017, in which RHS won a state championship and was ranked #1 in 5A, they were fueled by classes in which all of the south deanery talent attended Roncalli.

However, anyone within the program at time would have told you tough years were coming. During the following years, Roncalli missed out on the following players that attended their feeder grade schools...

QB Eddie Schott (St Jude) - Southport - Ball State

ATH Haven Montefalco (St Jude) - Cathedral - Harvard

OL Josh Fryar (St. Mark) - Beech Grove - Ohio State

ATH Ryan Lezon (St. Barnabas) - Southport - Ball State

QB Kody Sparks (St. Barnabas) - HSE - Bowling Green

QB Nate  McCahill (St. Roch) - Cathedral - Current candidate for Mr. Football

These are just a few examples. These are also elite high school football players that attended Roncalli’s grade schools but did not attend Roncalli, all for a variety of reasons.

Believe it or not, Roncalli’s success has nothing to do with recruiting (that claim has always been ridiculous).

This year’s Roncalli team is loaded with home grown talent that (outside of McCahill) all chose to stay in the south deanery and attend Roncalli. Thus, the success.

This year has been pointed to by those within the Roncalli community for awhile now.

Coach Rodenberg is doing a fantastic job, but you could see this success coming without a coaching change. Strong sophomore and junior classes complimented by several seniors with lots of experience.

Roncalli was fantastic under Coach Marsh in his first year, ranked #1 in 5A for a majority of the year and losing in a close game to Cathedral in the sectional.

After that year, they were really hurt by missing out on some big-time talent from their traditional feeder programs for a variety of reasons. Eddie Schott (St. Jude) went to Southport where his dad works and is now at Ball State. Ryan Lezon (St. Barnabas) same scenario. Nate McCahill, who is having a fantastic season at Cathedral, also attended a south side catholic school. These are just the big examples as there have been several others.

People point to “recruiting” with Roncalli (which is bogus). The real recipe for success for all Indianapolis parochial schools (Chatard, Scecina, Ritter, Roncalli) is if they can keep all of the talent from their feeder schools. Roncalli has done that in the past several classes and it is now showing.

It showed in 2016 as well, as that team was driven by strong junior and senior classes in which most or all of their feeder school talent went to Roncalli.