Dirty D

Due to the non-selection to the tourney 3 of our 5 are done. Is there a sight or a way to find people needing crew members?

On 11/29/2021 at 11:17 AM, DE said:

As an official, my take away has always been...

Do the best that you can in all aspects of officiating (pre/post season and in season), surround yourself with people that have the same goals as you, and control the "controllables".

Pre/Post Season Work includes, but not limited to...

Weight training/control, cardiovascular activity, rules interpretation study, film study, in person "shadowing", seeking out advice from experienced officials (listen intently), officiating other sports with other officials, networking, etc.

I wish there was a weight/health requirement. I saw a guy in a regional game last year who had to have an extra panel put in his already large shirt and could not bend over to pick up the ball. What was he, the umpire. He kind of dropped it into place. Nice quote about controlling the controllables, but if you are consistently getting screwed and you have no way of controlling it, that is part of the reason we are losing officials. Athletes have to go through a physical to participate and they are restricted games (how many a year etc.) Officials do neither. Basketball is worse. We had a guy at an opposing school Saturday night who work a Varsity game at 12:30. Ended up doing a two quarter JV game and the Varsity game in the same night. 

On 11/29/2021 at 12:19 PM, Bobref said:

All good ideas.

If you make your only goal to advance deep into the tournament, you are probably misguided. Keep in mind that improving your officiating, and that of your crew, gets you nothing, unless you improve relative to other crews. Playoff assignments are a zero sum game, meaning any move up results in a corresponding move down by someone else. If you are getting better, but so are others, you may not see any movement, even though you’re doing everything right.

And that is why young officials are getting out. Once you are at the top, you should start over. Spread the wealth

14 hours ago, JustRules said:

In the past a flaw of the coaches voting for all crews is some crews get 80-100 votes and some only get 20-30. The excess votes are usually the result of a crew (especially the crew chief) advancing in other sports and becoming well known there. All those extra votes are most likely positive (aka 5) votes.

We were told this year the ballot did only list the crews who were on the school's schedule using data acquired from the assigning siites (mostly Arbiter and Eventlink). I'm not sure if that was true, but if it is, the crews getting all the extra friendly votes are likely less impactful.

I have talked with coaches who do not give a crew a vote rather than giving the crew a bad vote. I don't know how common that is, but I do know it happens. I heard about a coach who only gives votes to crews who earned a 5 in his eyes. He learned last year if you only give 5s, the IHSAA will discard all your votes because they feel you were giving positive votes to all your crews.

Even with the limited vote there are issues with who can or can't vote for you. Let's say you had Fountain Central last year but they changed head coaches this year. Fountain Central can vote for you even though the current coach has never seen you. And that coach goes to West Lafayette. He has seen you work, but you haven't had West Lafayette in the last 3 years so this coach that knows you can't vote for you. If used the coach vote should probably be Tuesday-Thursday the week of the game.

The entire process is flawed. Even with the changes there were five schools that voted for us that we have never ever been to or officiated, we recieved one 1 vote. What if that 1 came from someone that should not have been able to vote for us. We averaged a 3.7, received votes from over half the teams we could, rating was a 128 and we did not get a sectional. We recieved 1-one, 0-two, 12-three, 13-four, and 5-five. That is 31 votes of the 48 that we officiated due to cancellations for Covid. We met all requirements and did not get a sectional game.

On the officials rating that was just released, is that a crew rating or an individual rating.

I am curious as votes were received from votes from 30 schools of the 48 we could have because of games being cancelled due to Covid. Our overall ranking was a 3.727. We received only one 1 vote and since we do not know who that was how much does that affect us. Reason I ask we had 5 votes from schools we have never ever officiating. I did not think that was possible anymore.

How many crews were needed for the first round of sectional. I count minus the 6A there were about 132 games on October 22. The ranking I am looking at for me (our crew?) is 128. Can someone explain why we did everything we needed, recieved votes from over half the schools, only one 1 vote, and did not get sectional.

This is part of the problem. And as I look at the crews it is the same people year year year out. That is why it feels like the good ole boys club.

16 hours ago, Huge Football Fan said:

The game is 48 minutes not 47. 10 points 3 timeouts 1 min is a stretch but keep playing football 

That is not my question. If a team says they are taking a knee and the defensive team gets overzealous is there a penalty. I view that as more unsportsmanship than some of the things that is called.

What about a team down 10 with 1 minute 3 timeouts and on defense. Other team said we are taking a knee. The defensive team coach told his kids to go through the defense because the game was not over. They did not he called another timeout told the players he wanted them on their butts regardless of taking a knee. He told the crew chief there was nothing in the rule book against it. Fortunately the players had more since than him and did not resort to that, but he was lighting them up for not doing it. Had they did it, is there anything there?

On 10/25/2021 at 6:24 PM, SoIndRef said:

How much influence do observers have?  If a crew is sitting a spot or two away from a sectional final, does a positive rating from an observer push that crew to get a game they may not have otherwise?

We were told that observations have no impact by a member of the IHSAA. They went on to say that, the only way the IHSAA really got notification of the observation was if the crew was really bad and the IHSAA may then reach out to them. Other than that it is just help for the crew to get feedback.

On 10/16/2021 at 11:22 PM, Impartial_Observer said:

Simple fix we started doing many years ago, if you don’t vote, we don’t work there. I have never sent emails/snail mail to coaches/AD’s, never told anyone how to vote. When I give coaches my card in pregame and yes it’s even printed in my card, “Please vote for tournament officials”. I used to bail out a small rural school near me on lower level games, AD called me one day needing help and I told him I can’t do it, you didn’t vote for us for the last several years and we have a policy if you don’t vote we no longer work there. I have not worked at that school since, but they have vote for us ever since. This is just one example. 

After our talk with the IHSAA and them saying your votes were good no bad votes, just not enough. We are looking at who voted when those come out and we are dropping anyone that did not vote. We are pretty sure it was the schools in the city and this year we had a game cancelled and then the last two cant vote so we lost six teams before the vote. Similar situation last year.

On 10/18/2021 at 9:44 PM, Titan20 said:

If you don't mention names...how does it EVER get corrected.  And no it wasn't agreed upon by the coaches.  GS has plenty of players and Boonville is a 4A school.  An official should never take it upon himself to change the rules of the game.

And he was probably doing a sectional Friday Night.

The number one goal should somehow get schools to vote. That is what should be figured out. I just talked to IHSAA and our crew did not receive a sectional only because school votes. He said all votes we received were good, but we did not receive too many. I wonder if our problem is we did smaller schools and some Charter schools and they may not have voted. I know last year four of the IPS charter schools did not vote. If so much emphasis is going to be on the school votes then, something should be done to encourage them to vote. As a new crew when you have only been together for a few years and the same schools want you back you are limited to who gets to vote for you. Looking at we only have had about 30 total school worked for in 3 years. That eliminates several votes and then when some choose to pay the fine and not vote we pay the price. Maybe find an incentive for the schools that vote. I think that is where it starts. We were observed, went well, met all requirements, did some 4A to !A games, the votes we got were good and yet it all came down to coaches who just did not vote.

Well you can't get experience if you do not get selected. We again did not get one and we as a crew are done playing this game. We will wait to see what our votes looked like this year and move on whenever they come out, but I am in my fifties and this process is not beneficial to young guys or old guys. So I am done doing the meetings and pay the association fees. I will just work our games we have for the next three seasons and be done with trying to brown nose the right person. You look at who gets sectionals in all sprots and its the same guys year in year out many times the same guys from sport to sport. Yet there is those that say the good ole boys club does not exist.. 

The assignments are released today. Have they been or are they supposed to be?

The goal should be to be fair. If a crew works a state they should not be eligible for a state again until they meet the requirements of a first year sectional crew. How ever long it takes that crew it should take a crew to return to state. That is one of the reasons there are less officials and many crews that do not even apply for tourney because of this. We are in our fourth year and our ratings have been pretty good, we jump through all the hoops, watch the silly videos, go to meetings where many times they are talking about things other than football (one meeting I was part of talked about drinking alcohol throughout the entire meeting as well as the cussing used), pay an association fee and not get more than a first round sectional. It is not worth, we may as well be a crew that just works Friday reg. season. Not jump through the hoops and not be held as accountible.

I know in a few states after you get a State you have to start over and go through the steps again.

That is not my question. If only 7 schools vote, and are all 2's and higher. You technically did not get enough votes. Would a one qualify you. Too many schools do not vote, that is why I am asking.

One of the coaches from this game told me the crew was the 5A state championship crew from last year. Sometimes mistakes are made and that is just what it was. I am sure each of us have made mistakes in penalty interpretation.

Per the IHSAA from an email I read about another crew. You do not have to have a 90% to get a first round sectional if you meet all other qualifications. You just won't have that member if you advance to second round. I was surprised by that from the IHSAA.

On the voting, I think coaches should have three days to vote on their recent crew following the game they did. With all the technology that could easily be done. When they submit their film they do a quick vote. Too many coaches either don't vote or forget. Some schools the ADs vote and get no input from the coach others, the coach just doesn't vote. There should be a penalty for coaches who do not vote for anyone good or bad.

My question it says you must get 10 school votes. I have been told a "1" is not good. But is a "1" better than a no vote when counting towards the ten?

When will officials getting tourney be announced. Last year the release date changed like three times. I mean it always the same guys anyway and that is why there are fewer crews because of the BS.

The receiver coming off the line and running a short flag is where to focus on. The LJ was not part of the question. Even though he was on the field, slow to get there, etc. LOL

After I get some input. I will let you know what we were told by the IHSAA office.

When are rankings for crews released. Not sectional assignments, but just the rankings?

Few questions.

1. How did the IHSAA get permission to have more fans. We just played in a Marion County School and they said only two parents per kid allowed at any Marion County Game?

2. Would it have made more sense to just put the fans in the game before in opposite corners, then have the fans in the next game use the other opposite corners and they could clean during the next game? Just asking because there was NO social distancing in line waiting to get back in and we were in line for at least 30 minutes. People without masks, shoulder to shoulder. IHSAA is telling the schools to do this, but then when it comes to them making money they seem to disregard it.

3. Is there a reason no running clock in the State Finals?

I thought success factor could not cause teams up to move down. I swear I heard last time they put all the classes together then move the SFs up, but no one down due to that?

So is CC Ben Davis and Pikes JV kids?

4 of the 6 state champs will be private schools

21 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Lutheran avoids getting Scecina'd by virtue of their loss to Covenant Christian last week.  West Washington could also join LCC if they win out in the south and then win at LOS.

Pioneer will also stay up in 2A for another couple of years setting up a potential match-up of 1A sectional/regional foes in 2A post season.

I know they changed something, but Pioneer moves up? They did not win sectional last year so are they automatically up? Not sure they will be able to compete next year without the twins.