crimsonace1

13 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

I don't think Cathedral coaches or players care if it does or doesn't. Its usually other teams players, coaches, and fan base that put so much stock into this from observation.

Honestly, Cathedral doesn't care, but their placement does affect other schools who might be in Class 5A (or 4A). 

Bottom line, even with the fumble/no-fumble call (and it looked out from my perspective, but I'm not exactly unbiased), NP would've had to drive the length of the field against a defense it had struggled to move the ball against. Roncalli's OL/DL were as good as any I've seen at the high school level, especially in 4A. 

The one real officiating "mistake" was a play where NP was called for illegal man downfield on a TD pass. It was actually an illegal forward pass - the QB was a half-yard ahead of the LOS when he threw the ball but in watching the video last night, it appeared all five linemen were behind the LOS. The misapplication/confusion likely worked in NP's favor, as illegal forward pass is a loss of down penalty, but the Dragons failed to convert on 4th-and-1 later that series, so it was all moot. 

Of note, Cathedral winning a regional ensures it will be in 6A in 2024 & 2025. 

19 minutes ago, CaptainHook said:

57!

However, if you would have told me we would hold them to 20 points, I'd probably have been ok with that.  The Dragons couldn't get anything sustained vs their defense.

Four turnovers on downs - three inside the 35 yard line (and twice on fourth-and-1). Just struggled to sustain anything offensively tonight. Congrats to Roncalli - their line dominated the game and they should be fitting themselves for rings in two weeks. It's a shame geography meant this game was played this week instead of on Thanksgiving weekend.  

Next season starts tomorrow. NP graduates a huge, talented senior class but has a very good freshman and eighth grade group. Will have to replace 4/5 of the offensive line, the QB and the top two receivers on offense, as well as the entire LB corps on defense. 

2 hours ago, WestfieldRocks said:

Thanks for the explanation. Surely this is an odd situation. Maybe the IHSAA can do something to prevent it in the future.

It is what it is. A host school can choose to play a game anywhere - including the opposing team's field - but retains "home team" privileges and designation in the tournament. 

In 1999, Mt. Vernon made it to the regional round and never hosted a game. It's rare, but it is possible for a team to be home or away several weeks throughout the tournament. There's a scenario in which Roncalli could host next week, too (if they win and Evansville Memorial wins, because Memorial is home this week and this regional has the tiebreaker. New Pal would be home next week regardless of opponent - which, if it comes to pass, would be NP's fifth consecutive semistate game at home since 2014). 

44 minutes ago, WestfieldRocks said:

I had read that both IPS schools were scheduled for home games, but neither one had the appropriate stadium to host. Even at that, it doesn't seem right that Roncalli gets four straight at home, being that New Pal has already played one tournament game on the road. 

That was floating around but is incorrect. 

Their first-round game was drawn to be at Shortridge and was Shortridge's home game. At IPS/Shortridge's request, it was moved to Roncalli due to the better field and larger stands (the visitor's side at Roncalli has more seats than Shortridge's field has at all). Even though the game was moved, it remained a Shortridge home game. 

Because Roncalli was the "visiting" team and Attucks the "home" team in the first week of the sectional, Roncalli was the host team for the second round game against Attucks. Some might have interpreted that as an Attucks home game because it was in the bottom bracket and both teams were home the previous week, but Roncalli's game was a designated road game. Attucks plays its home games at the old Northwest HS, which has an old facility but is adequate for this level of game. 

Even if New Pal had played a road game, regional and semistate host is only based on who was home/away the previous round - both teams were home, and the odd-numbered sectionals have the tiebreaker when that's the case, so Roncalli would have hosted even if its Week 1 game had truly been a home game (there is a caveat for semistate that if one of the teams has not hosted the sectional final or regional, it would host the semistate). 

7 minutes ago, sidelineworker said:

How will NP's Thomas being out affect the running game?  How can they win with a major player out like him?

Kyler Kropp came in for Thomas and ran for 148 yards having not practiced at RB for several weeks against Greenfield-Central, then ran for 112 and three TDs on eight carries last week. Honestly, there's not much of a drop-off from Thomas to Kropp, but they're different style runners. What changes is they now can't both be on the field at the same time, so NP loses a little bit of offensive flexibility as Kropp was very good in the passing game as a slot receiver. 

On 11/9/2022 at 8:38 AM, MonkeyButt said:

I do and I don't since I have a personal stake in this being a New Pal fan. Regardless I just hope we are the ones continuing on. Looking forward to see what Roncalli has to offer.

As someone with a stake in the game, I'd prefer a stress-free 20+-point win, but I'll enjoy a good game. 

Here are the game notes from both teams for this game. 

FB Notes vs New Palestine - R 111122.pdf FB-2022-11-11-atRoncalli.pdf

22 hours ago, Sledge said:

Anyone know if this one will be streamed? Roncalli Media Network on YouTube?

All tournament games are on IHSAAtv if they're video streamed, and Roncalli does video stream its home games. 

Roncalli Media Network & NewPalRadio.com will have audio streams, depending on which school's slant you want to enjoy (I'll be doing the New Pal PXP). 

20 hours ago, Bonecrusher said:

Really?  On THE day of a SC game?  Someone please tell me what rationale I am missing out on here, and why this should make sense.

They won, so it worked. 

Coach Ralph is a big believer in keeping your lifting schedule and yes, lifting on gameday if that's on the schedule. They wanted to get a light workout in before the game to stay in-routine. 

Woodard, Quakers win sectional title in coach's final season

Andrew Smith
GridironDigest.com

For 17 years, Brian Woodard has led the Plainfield Quakers as one of the most well-respected coaches in Central Indiana. 

They’d had a number of outstanding seasons, but hadn’t been able to claim a sectional title, annually playing in one of the toughest fields in the state. Roncalli, Cathedral, Zionsville or another powerhouse program would often stand in the way.  

Until this year. 

The Quakers rallied from a 10-point fourth-quarter deficit Friday to beat Decatur Central 13-10 and claim the Class 5A Sectional 13 title, clinching it by driving 80 yards in the final two minutes and scoring on a touchdown pass from Hunter Newell to Noah Hessong in the waning seconds. 

Earlier in the fourth quarter, Grant Irwin intercepted a pass and took it back 49 yards to get the Quakers on the board. 

Woodard, who had announced his retirement from coaching prior to the season, finally could hold a sectional trophy. The Quakers claimed their first title since 2000, when they were the Class 4A state runner-up. 

“I'm so proud of our players and so happy for our program, school, and community. I truly feel like this championship is for us all,” Woodard said. “All the players and coaches that did come up short, this is as much for them as it is this current group. I tell every player that graduates from our program that they are forever a part of this and that certainly applies here.” 

Plainfield started the season 0-3. The Quakers got going with back-to-back wins over Perry Meridian, Greenwood and an overtime victory over Decatur Central midway through the regular season. They finished strong, beating a ranked Martinsville squad 21-17 in the regular season finale, then avenging a loss to an 8-win Harrison squad by a 35-28 score in the sectional semifinal. 

“I just kept talking to them about how there would be better days. Stay committed to the process of preparing each week, sticking together, and working hard, eventually we would come through it, if that is what they wanted. If they wanted to truly have better days and that is the character component that is so vital,” Woodard said of rallying from the 0-3 start. “They were willing to delay immediate gratification for what hopefully would be something even more special down the line by trusting in each other and their coaching.” 

Newell leads a very multiple Quakers offense, throwing for 1,794 yards and 15 touchdowns. He threw for 222 yards in the victory over Harrison before completing 14-of-24 against Decatur Central. Hessong is a versatile running back, leading the Quakers in rushing (793 yards) and is second in receiving (365 yards). Irwin is a solid two-way player, with 590 yards and seven TDs receiving. 

The Quakers travel to No. 2 Whiteland for this week’s regional contest. The Warriors are seeking their first trip to the semistate since 1999. Whiteland won the regular season matchup 45-14 in Week 8. Newell threw for 147 yards for Plainfield in that contest, but Whiteland’s multiple-back “fly” offense accounted for 340 yards on the ground, led by Maalik Perkins’ 91 yards and Peyton Emberton’s 66. 

“They're really good and have very few weaknesses,” Woodard said. “They were and still are the favorite to come out of the South and rightfully so. Tons of experience and really good players. We're going to have to play as close to error-free football as possible and eliminate any of the self-inflicted issues that we put on ourselves in the first game.” 

Whiteland (10-1) - the Mid-State Conference champion - is led by a defense that is allowing 13.5 points per game, led by Brady Stanifer (95 tackles). The Warriors shut out Franklin 24-0 last week in the Sectional 14 final, clinching their second sectional championship in three years. 

Offensively, Emberton leads a multiple-back attack with 1,168 yards and 11 touchdowns. 

Coach Darrin Fisher said a key to Whiteland’s success has been a 30-player senior class that has taken turns in leadership and has been unselfish, caring about each other and their school and community. 

“The courage to hit is the key to our football team,” Fisher said. “We have had few teams as physical as this one. We have played our best this season when our mindset is attack in all three phases.” 

Yorktown rallies into regional

When the Yorktown Tigers trailed No. 7 Norwell by 21 points, coach Mike Wilhelm relied on the motto of his college alma mater - Wabash Always Fights. 

The Tigers rallied to tie the game at halftime, took the lead in the third quarter, then survived a late two-point conversion attempt to beat the Knights 42-41 in the Sectional 27 championship game. 

“That's something this Yorktown team has shown throughout the season and especially in the sectional championship game against Norwell,” Wilhelm said. “Down 21-0 at the start of the 2nd quarter, we certainly could have packed it in and gone home. But Yorktown continued to fight, and we had a significant stretch in the second quarter that got us back on track.” 

The victory was also Wilhelm’s 100th in 18 years at Yorktown. 

Yorktown got on the board with a 19-play drive in the second quarter, then forced a fumble and blocked a punt on successive Norwell possessions to tie the game before taking the lead in the third quarter. 

“It felt like we had momentum the entire final 24 minutes, even though the game kept going back-and-forth,” Wilhelm said. “Our Monday team meeting goal was to give ourselves a chance to win it in the 4th quarter, and our players certainly met that goal, and that came to fruition with the final sack on Norwell's 2-point conversion attempt.” 

Yorktown is 9-3, but has flown under the radar this season as the smallest school in the Hoosier Heritage Conference, a league that has produced state championship teams in three consecutive seasons. The Tigers face larger schools each week in the regular season, whose schedule includes only one other 3A squad in county rival Delta. 

Junior quarterback Mason Moulton commands the offense. A three-year starter, he is throwing for 1,863 yards and 17 touchdowns. He was 14-of-23 for 179 yards and three scores - all three to wideout Kolton Nanko, who has been a big-play player on both sides of the ball. He has 940 receiving yards and 12 TDs on offense, four interceptions on defense and a kickoff return for a score on special teams. He’s also the team’s kicker. Junior running back Jalen Thomas is fully recovered from a leg injury suffered his freshman year and ran for 165 yards and three scores against Norwell. 

“In the offseason, we took steps to significantly change our playbook to become a more balanced offense, and that focus was on improving the running game,” Wilhelm said, noting Thomas was a key part of that change. “Last season, Mason Moulton had an outstanding sophomore season getting the ball to our playmaker wide receiver Kolton Nanko. This season, we wanted to get the ball to Thomas and Nanko in a variety of ways. And we believe that becomes a game-planning challenge for teams to have to account for those two whether they be in the backfield or lined up as wideouts.” 

This week, the Tigers - celebrating their first sectional title since 2014 - travel to No. 3 Indianapolis Chatard (8-4) for the regional. The Trojans won state championships in 2019 and 2020 before spending one year in Class 4A. 

“Coach (Rob) Doyle and his staff have done a great job with this team and program,” Wilhelm said. “It is obvious that they continuously work on fundamentals and the fine details at each position, and it is challenging to find any weaknesses in the Trojans. In this playoff run, we have to continue to play Yorktown football. First and foremost, we have to block to the whistle on offense and run to the ball on defense. We must establish efficiency with our run and pass game, and our defense must cause turnovers and get Chatard off the field on third and fourth downs.” 

Dragons, Royals meet in 1 vs. 2 matchup

Only 14 miles separate New Palestine and Roncalli, but the two schools ooze football tradition. The Dragons have won three state championships and advanced to four State Finals since 2014 - all but one in Class 5A. Roncalli has 10 titles, most recently in 2016 and 2020. 

The two programs have been ranked No. 1 and 2 all season in Class 4A and finally meet on the gridiron for the regional at Roncalli. 

“I think we’d be lying if we said our boys weren’t looking forward to this,” New Palestine coach Kyle Ralph said. “We’ve got a good football team and you want to find out how good you really are. You want to play the best. Roncalli has a great team again this year. They have for a long time. This is a great measuring stick for where you are. No. 1 vs. No. 2 doesn’t happen too often. We’ve been fortunate to be ranked really high, but even we haven’t been in a lot of these games.. When you get to this point and you’re in the final eight, no one is overmatched.  Everybody is good. Everybody has strengths and weaknesses. Everybody is good, everybody is well-coached, disciplined, physical and playing at their peak. You have to play your absolute best at this point or you’re going to be watching people play. While that’s tough, it’s really exciting.: 

The visiting Dragons are 12-0, the host Royals 11-1 - the lone blemish a 24-23 defeat to Cincinnati Elder in Week 7. New Palestine opened the season with a 42-28 victory over eventual 6A champion Westfield and has two wins over defending 4A champion Mt. Vernon, including a come-from-behind 35-24 victory in the sectional opener. 

Both programs feature mammoth offensive lines - New Palestine’s bookended by Louisville commit Luke Burgess and Ohio State commit Ian Moore, the latter a junior. Roncalli features Trevor Lauck (Iowa), Luke Skartvedt (Northern Illinois) and Brady Neu (Central Michigan).

“It’s one of the very few games you’ll ever watch as a fan where I think almost all the eyes are going to be watching people block each other and not the people running, throwing or catching the ball. As a fan of football and a lineman myself, I really appreciate it when you have these uniquely epic battles out there,” Ralph said. “When you look at the quality and the size and the ability level of the line on both sides of the ball from these two teams, you’re looking at the potential of double-digit kids who are going to college for free to play offensive or defensive line. That’s incredible. It’s something unique that, even in 6A, you’re probably not going to see something like this in the trenches ever again.” 

Roncalli also has the state’s second-leading rusher in senior Luke Hansen, a Mr. Football candidate who has rushed for 2,681 yards and 31 touchdowns this season. Hansen has eclipsed the 300-yard mark three times, including 335 yards in the season opener against Southport, and has topped 200 yards on four other occasions. 

“All credit to our guys up front,” Roncalli coach Eric Quintana said, adding in the importance of the tight end position. “They have worked really hard throughout the season to master their fundamentals. They get unfavorable matchups weekly and battle their tails off to win the line of scrimmage. Great group and coached well.” 

He had 138 yards and a touchdown in the sectional championship game, a 21-14 victory over Brebeuf. 

“Luke is a great player,” Roncalli coach Eric Quintana said. “He is extremely tough and takes pride in mastering his craft. Total team player and studies the game.” 

The Dragons are unbeaten and romped 43-14 over Connersville in the sectional final. They also have a 1,500-yard rusher in Grayson Thomas, but he was lost to a season-ending injury in the sectional semifinal. Junior Kyler Kropp has stepped in and rushed for 100 yards in back-to-back weeks. Quarterback Daniel Tippit has thrown for 2,437 yards and 32 touchdowns, spreading the ball around to a receiving corps led by Ball State commit Isaiah Thacker (822 yards) and Blaine Nunnally (705 yards, 12 TDs). 

“New Palestine is a good football team,” Quintana said. “=They are coached well and have good talent on the field. We will have to be fundamentally sound and be the most physical football team on the field. We need to stop the run and not allow any explosive plays in the air.  We need to set up our offense early and often.” 

Notable

Columbia City won its first sectional since 1993 last week, beating Leo 27-21 to win Class 4A’s Sectional 19. The Eagles host Kokomo this week. … Lafayette Jeff broke a 20-year sectional title drought with a 38-28 victory over previously-unbeaten Crown Point to win Class 6A’s Sectional 1. The Bronchos meet unbeaten Carroll (Fort Wayne) this week. … Class 6A’s regional game between Brownsburg and defending 5A champion Cathedral is a rematch of a Week 2 contest, which Brownsburg won 42-35. Two of the other 6A regionals are rematches, as Hamilton Southeastern hosts Westfield - HSE won 26-21 in Week 5 - and Center Grove meets Warren Central. CG won 17-8 in Week 1. … Monrovia has the fewest wins of any sectional champion. The Bulldogs entered the sectional with a 2-7 mark - and seven straight losses - before beating Purdue Poly, Speedway and Danville to win Sectional 29, a field that featured two ranked teams. They visit unbeaten No. 6 Owen Valley this week. 

Regional matchups

Class 6A

• No. 5 Carroll (Fort Wayne) (11-0) at Lafayette Jeff (9-2)
• No. 9 Westfield (8-3) at No. 1 Hamilton Southeastern (11-0)
• No. 2 Indianapolis Cathedral (9-1) at No. 4 Brownsburg (10-1)
• Warren Central (6-5) at No. 3 Center Grove (9-2)

Class 5A

• No. 5 Merrillville (9-2) at No. 9 Valparaiso (8-3)
• No. 1 Fort Wayne Snider (10-1) at No. 3 Mishawaka (10-1)
• Plainfield (6-5) at No. 2 Whiteland (10-1)
• No. 4 Bloomington South (9-1) at Castle (7-4)

Class 4A

• Northridge (8-4) at No. 7 New Prairie (11-1)
• No. 6 Kokomo (11-1) at No. 9 Columbia City (11-1)
• No. 1 New Palestine (12-0) at No. 2 Roncalli (11-1)
• No. 4 East Central (10-2) at Evansville Memorial (9-3)

Class 3A

• No. 1 West Lafayette (12-0) at Knox (9-3)
• Yorktown (9-3) at No. 3 Indianapolis Chatard (8-4)
• Monrovia (5-7) at No. 6 Owen Valley (12-0)
• No. 5 Lawrenceburg (11-1) at No. 9 Southridge (11-1)

Class 2A

• No. 9 Lafayette Catholic (9-3) at No. 3 Andrean (8-3)
• Bluffton (8-4) at No. 8 FW Luers (7-5)
• Lapel (7-5) at No. 1 Linton (12-0)
• No. 5 Evansville Mater Dei (9-3) at No. 5 Triton Central (10-2)

Class A

• No. 4 North Judson (11-1) at Park Tudor (9-3)
• No. 6 Carroll (Flora) (11-1) at No. 2 Adams Central (12-0)
• No. 3 North Decatur (12-0) at No. 5 Sheridan (11-1)
• Providence (9-2) at No. 1 Indianapolis Lutheran (12-0)

11 hours ago, fenderbender said:

Technically both games against the IPS schools were away games that they hosts chose to play at Roncallinbecasue of seating capacity. 

I believe the Attucks game was a scheduled Roncalli home game, but Shortridge was a designated road game that Shortridge agreed to move to Roncalli. 

1 minute ago, JustRules said:

that's when you wish you had a mic to the referee huddle after a play where the defense sacks the QB for an 8 yard loss on 3rd and 1.

Referee: Whadyagot?
Wing: I have an illegal procedure on #12 offense
Referee: We don't have such a foul. What did he do?
Wing: He left early.
Referee: So we have a false start
Wing: Yeah, that's what you call it
Referee: So why didn't you kill it before the snap?
Wing: Uh...I don't know
Referee: You're buying the first round tonight. Maybe the second.
Referee (over the stadium mic): prior to the snap, false start on the offense, 5 yard penalty previous spot, repeat 3rd down

Without a mic you just see the signal and assume it must have been an illegal formation and wonder why the defense accepted the penalty when 4th and 9 is a better option than 3rd and 6. B's coach is legitimately angry and you have to take the berating you are about to receive.

I'm hoping the R gave the dead ball foul signal before signaling the false start ... that helps me understand what happened as a broadcaster. 

Surprised a thread isn't up yet. This should be a dynamite matchup between two very good programs, two well-coached teams and quite possibly the two best offensive lines in the state. 

I'll post the game notes from each school when they're made public (New Pal's are done but will be put out Thursday, I believe Roncalli's will be pushed out at the same time), but I'm looking forward to this game. 

I know broadcasts will be on IHSAAtv (video) & radio broadcasts on both the Roncalli Media Network and on NewPalRadio.com, depending on which slant you want. I'll be doing the New Pal broadcast. 

4 hours ago, BTF said:

Is it typical for football players to workout the morning after a game? I was referring more to the overall culture of a school in all sports. 

Can't speak for other schools, but the weight room culture at New Pal is pretty significant across sports. Coach Ralph has overseen the weightlifting/conditioning for the softball program, which has won three state championships since he came to NP. The athletes in other sports see what football is doing and they do the same. 

Had a similar play where the QB was directly behind the center, fumbled snap, threw it away from the EZ ... the R threw a flag but the wing official ran in and pointed out there was a receiver in the vicinity (about 5 yards beyond where the ball sailed OOB). After a discussion, they picked up the flag. 

On 10/29/2022 at 12:42 AM, Impartial_Observer said:

Both wings throw flags at the snap, home team picks up a first down. I’m told A has five guys in the backfield. I of course give the “do all” five yard penalty signal and we mark off the foul as the PA announcer announces false start on A. We get the ball set and I blow the RFP and in the quiet few seconds I hear that one loud mouth, “if it was a false start why didn’t you blow it dead?”  I kind of chuckled. Told the guys in the locker after, that kind of summed up the evening. 

This is why I channel my inner Don Fischer and refer to every roll of the fists as a "procedure violation" on the air ... knowing it's usually a false start if a dead ball penalty and an illegal formation if a live ball one. 

There's a well-known story about how New Pal won the 4A football title in 2014 on a Friday, and the guys were lined up at the weight room door Saturday morning, because that's what they do - they work out on Saturday mornings after film.

(Coach Ralph told them to go home and enjoy the weekend, but that's the culture - NP's players spend a lot of time in the weight room). 

On 11/6/2022 at 9:17 AM, Dave007 said:

One question - if IHSSA is successful with regional /semi state sites with basketball why can't they make it work in football?  I assume basketball sites are predetermined.

 

Last year, Cathedral had 5A semi-state home game with New Albany and that game was played at University of Indianapolis stadium ( I am not sure why it was not held at Tech as the Regional vs New Pal was held there the week prior).  I think these Divison II and III stadiums (Marian, Butler, U of Indy, Franklin College, Anderson, etc) would be fantastic option for permanent regional sites but they are not cheap to play there.  I know for a fact last time Cathedral played a regular season game at Butler Bowl (2017) it was $5,000.

 

 

Remember, one issue with college stadiums is they do not have HS regulation goalposts (college posts are 18'6" wide, HS are 24' wide). Either the goalposts have to be retrofitted for high school (some can be, some can't) or extensions put on. You also have to mark HS hashmarks, which are wider than college ones. 

Many of the D2/D3/NAIA stadiums are smaller than local HS stadiums. Franklin HS has a *much* larger capacity and better parking situation thank Franklin College. 

On 11/5/2022 at 3:51 PM, globemstr3 said:

I love this idea and it should happen its 2022. It won't however until IHSAA gets a handle on North and South lines. As a Miner fan I sorta liked the re-alignment to 37, as I felt all those schools were fairly close in distance. And we get to play Mater Dei at a later date! (chuckle). Regional for Linton is at the ROY Friday. The travel time from Lapel? I really wish them well and HOPE their fans travel well, but C'mon man. How is Lapel even considered a Southern Region team? That's Wrong. 2 hrs plus driving time. 

Now if they fix that then it could happen. Lets say IHSAA designates permanent Regional sites? Remember we play Fri Nights. I can only speak for the South. Lets say Bloomington or Terre Haute? IHSAA pays the host but what about the schools money etc? Hey if ya got a traveling concession stand there ya have it! (sorta like Scecina). Sometimes its not about the money doing the right thing. Done ranting now. GO MINERS! More importantly...safe travels Bulldogs fans, what a day.

I have no idea why Mater Dei and Triton Central are playing, as well as Linton and Lapel. A wiser pairing would've had the MD-Linton sectionals paired together and the TC-Lapel ones, but 2A was weirdly aligned in the south. 

On 11/5/2022 at 4:39 PM, Basementbias said:

Bellmont is basically dirt with a sliver of grass. It was awful when youth teams play on it. Surprised they haven't started raising funds for turf. Though I'm guessing they'll have to start winning again before that is even entertained.

Not sure why they always do North & South and haven't tried East vs West. I'd actually rather they do quarters: NW, NE, SW & SE. Then have rotation of semi states. 

Geography. Indiana is tall, not wide. A Hammond to Evansville regional game would be a bear travel-wise. 

6 hours ago, temptation said:

Are folks actually on the verge of "feeling sorry" for Carmel, lol?  Never thought I'd see the day.

Joking aside, I think it is a variety of factors and I'd even argue that Carmel is one of a select few schools in Indiana where football is not king in terms of prestige and attention.

Believe me, *nobody* feels sorry for Carmel outside of Clay Township. They're still the biggest, wealthiest, most well-funded school in the state, best resources, et al. 

But the community is interesting. Much of it is transplants (so there's not really a huge local alumni base who are going to build their Friday nights around football) and as a result, a significant number of the adults have no real interest in high school sports beyond what their kids are playing. The prevalence of high-level travel sports in Carmel and Hamilton County, coupled with the interest in country club sports like swimming, tennis and golf, tends to siphon the attention away from football. Carmel is, hands down, the best overall athletic program in the state, but it is a very interesting, unique community that's difficult to replicate. My parents have lived there for a quarter-century now and my younger sister is a recent grad, so it's been interesting to watch and compare their culture to ones I've witnessed growing up in Marion County and now living in the eastern suburbs. 

6 hours ago, Coach P said:

Could it be, that all is well at Carmel and Schools Like Westfield are just catching up? Westfield has one of the largest youth football programs in the State. I have insider information, that the goal at Westfield was to match or overtake Carmel. All Hamilton County schools have grown substantially and can match Carmel in facilities. Have you seen the new weight room and Stadium at Westfield? 

Nobody is feeling sorry for Carmel, they will be ok..... its just that the little brothers are growing up and now can compete.

This is an astute observation. Westfield has built a great football culture, great facilities and has a very sports-centric community. You can say the same for HSE & Fishers. They've definitely caught up to Carmel and can be consistently competitive with them, and Carmel isn't really used to that coming from elsewhere in Hamilton County. For years, its biggest competition came from Ben Davis/Warren Central/Center Grove. 

On 10/31/2022 at 5:47 PM, Footballking16 said:

You made the parameters not me. Have Carmel demographics shifted that much in the last 5 years?

On a side note, you may be on to something about the size of Carmel. I know there are a fair amount of Carmel kids not playing at Carmel.

Brebeuf has *a lot* of Carmel kids (always has) - the western Clay Township kids live right down the street. Clay Terrace, which is one of the biggest neighborhoods in Carmel, is closer to Brebeuf than it is to CHS and is full of people with the means to afford an expensive private school. Guerin Catholic also has a lot of Carmel kids (and I don't know if this is the case in football, but every time we play Cathedral in baseball, 3/4 of the license plates in the parking lot are from Hamilton County). 

And all of those schools have very good football programs. 

The type of family that seeks out Carmel to live is specifically seeking out Carmel. They tend to be well-heeled, Type A parents, but I can see this current generation of parents not being as keen on their kids playing football (and as others noted, travel sports demand specialization and soccer/baseball - especially at a place like Carmel - will snare some of those kids who would've otherwise been multi-sport athletes at young ages). However, just by sheer volume, there will be a lot of kids who are driven and *want* to play football, who are talented, from supportive families. But HSE, Fishers, Zionsville & Westfield all have a significant number of those families, too, and the sectional/regional path is likely going to feature those teams. It's not as much "what's wrong with Carmel" as it is "what's right with Westfield/HSE." Even at Carmel, HS teams do go through cycles.