BLACKGOLD2007

11 hours ago, BTF said:

Agree. I was thinking a 28-14 type game on an off year. That's not a slight on Harrison by any means. It's more of a testament of how good Indy suburban schools have become over the last 15 years. I like my idea better of sticking two FW teams in Indy and two in SB. That would have pushed Harrison to the northwest. Crown Point is no slouch, but that sectional would have been easier with Penn being pushed to SB/FW. 

Sectional 2, Penn, Snider, Carroll and Elkhart. 

Woof

Sectional 1 is interesting. Harrison threw in that wrench. Penn and Elkhart go separate ways for the first time in a long time, and Crown Point's sectional road just got harder. Maybe. 

On 4/24/2024 at 7:10 PM, Rocket said:

Michiana football reported that Elkhart will be getting 2 high impact transfers from Mishawaka next season.

Elkhart doesn't lack talent, it lacks direction from what I am hearing. 

On 4/22/2024 at 8:31 PM, BTF said:

May need a second opinion here. Can I call a friend? 

I am sorry, we could have had 15 players on the field and would still found ourselves out of position on almost every play. 

That games was a nightmare, that we got to live over three different times...One day I think we will have redemption...maybe. 

On 4/22/2024 at 6:09 PM, BTF said:

Or they just use parentheses. Carroll (Fort Wayne) or Carroll (Flora). Carroll(Fort Wayne) sits just outside city limits, so they don't get the Fort Wayne Carroll label. The high school itself has a Fort Wayne address, but many of their students have a Huntertown address. 

Sure

Well it doesn't matter, now one was getting beat 57-7....unless Penn was playing in the game. 

Yes, when you live in the city in which the school resides you will typically just use the name of the school. In media and when talking to people who are not always familiar with the schools around the state, using Indianapolis, South Bend or Fort Wayne helps the lay person know where in the state we are talking about.  I believe there is a South Bend Washington and a Washington HS.... If someone just posted a topic saying....OMG did you see what happened at Washington over the weekend?  most people will probably think uh oh something happened in South Bend...but the thread could be about the 4A school in southern Indiana. Plus Harrell's website lists the schools from those towns above with the city name in it.

4 hours ago, Coach Lou said:

I wish Elkhart still played Goshen. I know Goshen has been down for a while but in the old days this used to be a really big game.

I know Central was playing Goshen until Elkhart went back to 1 school and Goshen dropped the game.

 

 

I think Elkhart may see the writing on the wall, the NLC is a better overall fit for them, and I think Elkhart would be a bit more competitive? maybe.  Not so much with the top tier of the NLC right now, but they could be a middle of the pack team unless this new coach is able to change the culture over there. 

2 hours ago, PDB26 said:

We had several drives die inside of Valpo's 5. Some might say Gees called that game too tight more than we played awful. There was some procedural controversy around Valpo's go-ahead field goal, but we still got the ball back with enough time for a legitimate chance to win.

We were really good that year, and 2002 was a huge lost opportunity for Penn. To bring it back to SoS for a second, Sagarin from '02 is pretty interesting. Penn's SoS was 23rd with 5 top 25 games on the schedule. Warren Central (1) and Penn (2) both went out in the Regional.

Also, Ben Davis beat WC and CG in consecutive rounds after losing to both in the regular season. If––not to overlook a semi-state matchup with Snider––Penn had made it to state, then Ben Davis's last three tournament games would have been against the three teams they lost to in the regular season.

If my memory serves me correctly we played two tight games in a row against Valpo in regionals back to back years that saw us go down. Gees had the ball on the 1 with 4 downs to punch it in and we ran Tony West our speed back rather than Bruce Ore who was our big back that may have been able to use his size to push the pile. Give the credit to Valpo they didn't break on those four plays. But, dang that was a let down as well. 

10 minutes ago, BTF said:

If memory serves me correctly, the difference between Penn and Center Grove that year was minimal even though the outcome was double digits. Penn wasn't exactly dead during the Yoeman era, they were just hit or miss............and never good enough to win the whole thing. But let's be honest, they were in good company in that regard. 

Snider's offense was probably average, maybe a little better than average, by Snider standard. But the defense, one of their best ever, was good enough to keep them competitive in any game in my opinion. 

I like the direction the north is headed in. The two year winning streak over suburban Indy speaks volumes. The addition of Craig Buzea I think is a game changer for the north. I think Penn should be excited about the new hire. His resume appears pretty solid. I think Dinan is committed to keeping Carroll up there as a contender in 6A. He has the resources to do it. Homestead had a downturn in talent the last couple of years. When they uptick, with the combination of beefing up their schedule, they'll be back in the conversation at some point. Elkhart has the student body and a new coach. I'm a "glass half full" regarding the north at this point. 

I agree there are reasons to be excited about the progression of the best teams in 6A North, but right now I am putting money down on the House. Betting odds are in their favor, it is up to the other schools to go and take it. It is like the BIG10 and the SEC. It took a generational team in Michigan to finally beat Bama and a hot team in OSU to win in 2014. 

Sometimes lightening in a bottle can win you a title, sometimes you finally have to horses to do it, but no one has sustained success like the SEC... I mean Metro Indy.  

6 minutes ago, BTF said:

He's right though, regardless of what anyone thinks. I would argue that it's fact, not opinion. 

I know, I just find it comical how people will go after him all the time. 

I was just looking over the upcoming schedules for our resident NIC teams. Some interesting pick ups for a few schools, and some pick ups that I think were made out of desperation and lack of availability for others. 

Penn: Starts with Valpo (possibly the last game in this series) and Mishawaka...(Penn dumps 6A rival Carmel for 4A crosstown rival)

Elkhart: Making a plea to the NLC?? Please NLC save us from the sinking NIC. Elkhart continues crosstown rivalry with Concord and makes it three years in a row vs Northridge. (since the inception of Elkhart, they have played 1 or 2 NLC teams during the regular season)

Marian: Makes it 5 years in a row against Mishawaka and 4 years in a row vs Culver Academy. 

New Prairie: Continues their Historic battle against Evil, LaPorte, dating back to the beginning of time. They also have Goshen for the third year in a row. 

Adams: Gets a rematch with Culver Academy and Logansport. 

Riley: Is looking to continue their success this season and adding winnable games against Hammond Noll and Fort Wayne Wayne (I think the people naming schools got lazy on that one). We will really get to see how far this program has come with a looming week 3 matchup at Home against Penn. 

St. Joe: Is in year 4 with Lakeland and year 2 with Fort Wayne South

Washington: Is also in year 4 with Hammond Central and adds New Albany to their schedule. 

No one really went out and grabbed a team that I think is going to prep them for a future run in the Playoffs. Smaller schools playing up a class I think helps them regardless of how good that team is, but still nothing that is going to make you turn your head or be excited about. 

1 minute ago, temptation said:

Coaching, talent, socioeconomics, youth league development, other job responsibilities for the coaching staff, facilities, etc...

Oh boy, a feel a firestorm brewing.... you mentioned one of those buzzwords that lands in a heated debate...Thoughts and prayers. 

13 minutes ago, Bobref said:

What were you doing under the upright?

The school allowed fans on the field area....Fans started pouring in as the game wound down, so me and a couple friends ran out there. 

It was wild. The kick goes up and by, the Penn fans go nuts because it went left, then he walks out and calls it good, and then Valpo fans go crazy because they were just given the biggest win of the year. 

3 minutes ago, temptation said:

I think that the schedule strength argument is part of the equation but not the end all be all.

correct, coaching and talent always helps. 

Penn was able to overcome some talent issues in the 90's and early 00s with Hall of Fame coaching from top to bottom. 

On 4/16/2024 at 2:03 PM, jets said:

Just checking back in....no one answered my question 😞

Penn does not give out information well. They keep everyone in the dark, until they are forced to make a big decision and then they try to be cute and make bad PR videos. 

I wish I knew, but we likely wont know unless a booster gets the deets and shares with us. Sorry. 

14 hours ago, BTF said:

Agree, like how Carroll showed up the season before. More on that game if you want to PM me. I just don't think it would have mattered who Ben Davis played from the north. Talent, plus turf, plus perfect weather environment = unstoppable machine. Do you think Westfield was on par with Brownsburg and Center Grove? They just had an off night? Trust me, I understand off nights. They exist. The best team doesn't always win. 

cough Penn v Valpo 2002. I was under the upright, that ball went left and the stupid ref (Sorry @Bobref) called it good. Penn was the best team in the state that year, and they played an awful game and got hosed in the end. 

14 hours ago, temptation said:

I mean, it’s easy to cherry pick data points to fit a narrative, but I remember how shocked I was the night that the much hyped clash between Brownsburg and Westfield (on Westfield’s turf I mind you) was over in the first half.

So, looking back no.  I don’t think Westfield was on the level of BD, Brownsburg or CG.  But I still thought they were a tier above Crown Point.

This may be true, but do you think Westfield would have put up a better game than CP did in total?

14 hours ago, temptation said:

Yeah, I’m not sure you can include Westfield in that list since they lost to Crown Point though that result shocked me.

Then, you add in the fact that Westfield beat HSE and HSE beat Fishers…

Ive been overly brash about the HCC too many years in a row now.  Brownsburg broke me and now Westfield seems to be trending that way.

They’ve gotta win one soon, right?

Well lets be perfectly honest, since the inception of 6A, only 4 teams have won 6A state titles out of the possible 11 chances. The teams they played in those 11 games from the true North are Penn, Carroll and CP. that is 4 of the 11 games. Metro Indy has represented the North by either Carmel or Westfield. 

14 hours ago, BTF said:

Everyone keeps saying that, yet they've stalled at semi-state two years in a road. I'm not sure anyone out of the northern bracket would have come within 21pts last year. Ben Davis, firing on all cylinders in a perfect weather environment, was unstoppable. I think Ben Davis and Brownsburg were in a league of their own with Center Grove just on the outside looking in. Throw the next eight teams (no particular order), HSE, Fishers, Westfield, Crown Point, Snider, Chatard, Cathedral, and East Central into a blender. 

Out of those 4 games Penn, believe it or not, has been the closest to winning the actual game. Now that was a different era of Penn football. But, looking at the results since 6A has started the North has not performed well against Metro area teams.

Snider last year has been, I think the best team to come out of the North, that is including runner up CP last year. I think Snider would have performed better against Ben Davis than CP had. But, last years Snider Team may have been the best North team in 10 or so years. 

We don't stack up with them, because they see the ringer week in and week out regardless of recent success against the HCC. Until the 6A North actually changes how they schedule, we will continue to come up short against them. Even then, History has not been in our favor since 2000. (that was the last North title with all the best teams in the same class)

On 4/15/2024 at 12:39 PM, BDGiant93 said:

Ben Davis was a really good football team last year, but Brownsburg or Center Grove could have won it all too. The Giants were just a little better/luckier on that particular night. It was going to be one of those three or even Cathedral in 6A. Respectfully, no one in the North was going to win State last year as good as CP was.

I agree with that 100%... I think that when it comes to the Metro Indy teams that are in the North, I don't qualify them as the North. So, I think that maybe an HSE, Fishers or Westfield would have given more of a fight, but we up across the Michigan state line just don't see the quality week in and week out to actually threaten you guys anymore. 

Fort Wayne is I think closest then CP is not far behind. Just my thoughts. 

On 4/13/2024 at 10:42 AM, Footballmomma said:

You think Warsaw? I truthfully think laffyette will steamroll Warsaw. They see the triple option and Warsaw doesn’t play anyone with speed. 

Warsaw had a gritty defense last year that helped them upset high expectations and formidable 6A FW Carroll. They had the unlucky pleasure of traveling to Freed Field and playing Penn the next weekend, but they gave Penn everything they could handle. Even in a lopsided loss. 

On 4/13/2024 at 3:19 PM, Footballmomma said:

Not to disagree but I think merrillville/Valpo are better than about half the Indy schools. I think if they had a weekly schedule with them people would be suprised to see them come out above .500. 

But, are they better than the Indy schools that matter, when push comes to shove. HSE, Fishers, Westfield, Brownsburg, Center Grove, Ben Davis, Carmel and Warren in any given year will have the horses to win state. Four of those schools have pleasure of beating up on one another yearly. They see this level of competition weekly, while CP will see it maybe two times in the year. The DAC could make themselves stronger by increasing the size of the conference adding 2-4 more teams and having 3 or 4 non-conference games. This opens up flexibility in scheduling downstate foes and out of state teams. 

Your could do what the NIC did, have a smaller side of the conference and a bigger or you could competitively balance the divisions and have cross-over games to fill the conference schedules. If you go big and small, you can look at adding New Prairie, Hobart and Lowell along with Penn. If you competitively balance the schedule you may want to look at Penn, Elkhart and the teams from Lafayette. 

I would be all for Penn playing a Duneland schedule. I have advocated for Penn to move to the DAC. Playing Merrillville, Valpo and CP in the same year or in any combination would be better than what Penn is currently working with. The DAC is 1000% a step up in class and competition for Penn. But, key to state will always run through Indy, if we like it or not. Especially in the South. Whoever comes out of the southern half of 6A, is going to be more prepared for the championship game than I think any 6A north team will be. 

I think Ben Davis's gauntlet through the playoffs last year is what ended up putting them over on CP. BD took CP's best shots and still walked away with a 28 point win. 

2 hours ago, Footballmomma said:

So yall kicked him out because of that? 99% of the stuff he says turns out to be truth just takes time lol 😂 

hate to say it but I think someone in DAC wins 5A this years and I think crown point gets back to state again this year in 6A but still gets stomped 

Crown Point winning the North will boil down to who comes out of sectional 2. If Penn does, I expect to see CP back in Semi-state, if Carroll does then that is a toss up. Carroll is a better program top to bottom right now, and I expect them to be more prepared for what CP has to offer than Penn will. I think it also depends what 16 teams end up in the North and how the sectionals shake out how hard of a road CP will end up having. 

Right now I say the winner of the North will come down to Westfield, HSE or Fishers. CP is not far behind, but I will always put my money on 6A indy before 6A north. 

I like Snider in sectional 3, but depending who they are grouped with, will dictate how far I think they will make it. 

22 hours ago, Footballmomma said:

It’s just kids with hearsay I guess. But at one point and time Valpo gave Hamilton southeastern on there MaxPreps schedule for this upcoming season. And now it seems to be that it’s the year after. As I said anyone correct me if I’m wrong. Please. My son right now is homeschooled but he loves Hobart football. We are trying to find the right fit for him. I don’t necessarily like the coach staff at Hobart. Nothing against the as role models just the game planning aspect. We are leaning in enrolling him at Andrean or merrillville. 
 

Andrean is top notch academics. And solid athletics! But word is merrillville is returning everything they had plus some and are 100% on par for that state championship game. Plus they have a lot more diversity. I think I’m gonna end up letting my son decide but I’ll be here all year. I graduated from Griffith so I know all about region football 

Penn is not very forthcoming to people not directly involved in the program. With the Valpo series stretching back to 1996 I just assumed this was a game that would continue to go on for years to come. Penn picking up Merrillville helps them see speed, but they need to pick up teams that compete at the 6A level and are from Indy. 

Playing 5A Valpo and now 4A Mishawaka don't come off well, while other 6A programs are testing themselves against the best of 6A. Carroll, Snider and Homestead are leading the way in testing themselves. 

Penn's schedule is weak and will be weak, until changes are made. 

10 minutes ago, BTF said:

Makes sense. 

Our Strength of schedule is going to be a Dinosaur size pile of crap...Good times. 

4 hours ago, BTF said:

Your estimate looks pretty accurate. They'll separate the Fort Wayne teams. My feelings aren't hurt as a fan, it just provides for some interesting matchups. What's Penn doing in 2027? Snider's contract with East Noble expires after 2026. This old rivalry needs to renew itself. Both teams have one hell of a path to go through to meet in 2024. 

Unless Penn convinces the NIC to find schools to add or drops the 7 game conference schedule, Penn will likely be playing Valpo and Mishawaka weeks one and two for the foreseeable future.

Maybe Coach Pete, will not care about upsetting people and send the JV to play the SB schools.