miner_35

Just now, TheStatGuy said:

It was a spot on call. 

You could see on the damn replay the receiver was getting hammered!

Great win for WeBo. 

I agree, a great call. Glad the refs had the balls to call it.

1 minute ago, scarab527 said:

congrats to the refs for giving WeBo the game. I’m honestly disgusted. 

Just now, javaswat01 said:

Ooof, that Pass Interference call was poor, to put it mildly. Nevermind the fact that the WR took multiple steps out of bound running down the sideline

You two have no clue. Receiver was being pushed out of bounds by defender. Interference everytime. Ignorance like this makes me laugh

2 hours ago, Moshiner1345 said:

 

In response to what Bob said above I think is extremely important to "control what you can control". Our crew too has been disappointment by lack of advancement for many many years (started our crew in 2008). We were observed week 1 in 2016. Our observer was completely honest with us. He said our crewed was over weight at certain positions and that we appeared to be slow because of the weight some of our guys carried. So you know what I did, I went and looked at our films. That game and of every game throughout the year. We did look slow, we were out of position at times. I challenged our crew. I said, "if you want to get to the promise land, we need to change our perception of being slow". So that summer our crew made 1 personnel change and 2 other guys lost a combined 125 lbs. It hurt at the time to hear what the observer said, we were pissed and we moaned about it for weeks. We complained about other crews and how far they were advancing. But in hind sight, it was exactly what we needed to hear.

The following year we were observed and received excellent reviews. I continued to break down every game. And I don't mean looking back to see if we got the calls right or wrong, I'm talking about watching every play. Looking at mechanics, looking at positioning, looking at our eyes, where our focus is / where it should be. Controlling the things we can control: preparation, fitness, hustle, and appearance/perception. Challenge yourself and your crew. Even if you don't care about the tournament, it will bring yourself satisfaction to know you are doing everything in your control to officiate to best of your ability on any given Friday night.

I figure my crew will find out next year if we are going to be okay. We were given great reviews and told that we should advance as far as we were able to during the tournament. To my knowledge, that was a sectional championship (however a crew got a regional championship with only 2nd round experience this year, it appears). We got a first round game and done. That included being observed during the sectional game. With this being said, we figured we were 1 and done anyway. It just didn't make much sense to us other than it was for future years after not receiving a 2nd game. 

I just want to know why we get votes from schools that have no reason to vote for us and know which schools voted low and what we did wrong to deserve said rating. Most of the time they have no clue what we do wrong, so why vote to make someone look bad? Especially after you hear "great job tonight, guys". Why lie? Just tell me you are not going to invite me back. I would rather hear the truth.

55 minutes ago, Bobref said:

So, you’re not interested in getting better? Just show up on Friday nights and expect to do a good job? Officiating is like anything else: you get out of it in proportion to the effort you put in.

1 hour ago, Dirty D said:

My biggest issue is we never find out why we didn't get one. When I look at who does anyone in a lead position in a association or ran a clinic..their names keep appearing. I was told when we applied politics and the good ole boys club was an issue. Our crew is in its 3rd year and I talked to a guy today who has two year crew that is doing a regional. Now I do not know if the coaches voted us as they said they were going to or not. Our entire crew is certified met all the requirements yet we do not and will not find out why we did not even get a sectional in a year officials were down. We have been told it will take 5-7 years to get the amount of votes we need. We have decided to just do Friday night games and not worry about going to the clinics, meetings, etc. We got a full schedule with being in an association or going to the clinics so save the time and money and not be upset.

The problem is that why would someone want to get better when it does indeed look like they are getting overlooked? I mean my crew is going to continue to try, but I could understand why someone would feel that way. That second year crew has to have some experience on it to get a regional game, I assume. If not, then what is the point for someone that has done it longer? I get the reasoning. Sometimes just doing it for the kids isn't the best for everyone.

I also feel like we should know what schools rate us, and why? How can we get better if we can't ask them/know why?

23 minutes ago, Bobref said:

I need to tread lightly here, since I love my job as an observer, and the IHSAA is my boss. So, be clear about this. This is my personal opinion. I have no influence with the IHSAA on this issue, and am speaking purely as someone who existed within the system for many, many years ... and enjoyed great success under that system. My crew was together for 25 years, and we never worked lower than a Regional in any year we were eligible.

The single greatest change that would result in instant improvement in the caliber of officiating in Indiana, and in the perception of the fairness and accuracy of the system, would be the abolition of the coaches’ vote as the primary determinant in tournament officiating advancement. Don’t get me wrong, coaches are important stakeholders in the process. Give them the opportunity to “scratch” X number of crews so they won’t feel disenfranchised. But leave the evaluation of officiating proficiency to the people who have had the training and experience to know what they should be looking for, and what’s really important. And who are unbiased, i.e., unaffected by the outcome of the game.

If coaches sincerely wanted to make a contribution to increase the quality of the officials they see, they’d sponsor a resolution at the next IFCA meeting to tell the IHSAA to find another way to select tournament officials.

This right here would, in my opinion, help a lot in officials advancing. My particular crew has been getting votes from schools that they have never done before. Hell they had never done a game in that region before (we are out of Linton, receiving low votes from Fort Wayne). I am fine with the coaches vote as long and they can do it fairly and not just add votes that are to help officials in there area get a higher score than another crew (again, just my opinion). Also, we had two observers this year and was pleasantly surprised to see them (once during regular season and during our sectional game). Nothing but good things to say as we had never been observed. We even got to meet Mr. Faulkens as well and it was a pleasant chat as well. 

Anyway, I feel like crews getting observed will definitely help. When I go online and read about a crew being horrible, it usually just makes me laugh. I use to be THAT fan and I understand the game of football quite well. Now that I am an official, I see things a lot differently now (it drives my wife nuts since I watch the game differently). During one of our observed games, the fans were pissed afterwards saying we were awful. The observer informed us quite different. In the future, I believe this will help out those "lower ranked" crews that do not get recognized. However, if you only do the same teams every year and never venture out to bigger schools, you may not get noticed either.

On 10/19/2020 at 12:00 PM, Bobref said:

Each of the instances of kicking the grounded football is a foul for illegal kicking. But both of those penalties will be declined, since R scored a TD. Neither penalty can be enforced on the try or subsequent kickoff, even though they were fouls by the opponent of the scoring team, because there was a change of possession during the down, and the fouls took place before the change of possession. So, they must be declined for the TD to stand.

I suppose there could be a game situation where Team R needs to score more than a TD and try, so they could decide to accept the penalty for the illegal kick that occurred in the end zone, get 2 pts for the safety, and then get the ball back in good field position on the ensuing free kick, in hopes of scoring a TD and try. 

So, in essence, if K kicks the ball off the ground, it crosses the line to gain and they recover, R needs to accept the penalty to prevent K from keeping the ball?

Team K lines up in punt formation. K1 snaps the ball over K2's head. K2 kicks the grounded ball towards his endzone at K's 15 yard line. K2 then kicks the grounded ball again from (a) his own endzone or (b) his own 2 yard. R1 catches the kicked ball at the 5 and scores the touchdown. 

I know we have illegal kicking, but want to know how to enforce these correctly.

7 hours ago, itiswhatitis said:

Forgot to mention the Miners also set 2 other state records:  Points in a quarter (27 in the second) and margin of victory (regardless of class).

Ben Davis holds the margin regardless of class. The paper that printed it was incorrect. 

Largest Margin of Victory 
4A: 47 by Ben Davis (99) and Merrillville (52), 2010. 
3A: 28 by Princeton vs. Tippecanoe Valley, 2015. 
2A: 22 by Heritage ChrisƟ an (53) and Oak Hill (31), 2008. 
A: 32 by Bloomfi eld (90) and Morgan Township (58), 1998.

19 hours ago, BTF said:

I used a point system (state 10, semi-state 7, regionals 5, sectionals 3) purely based on championships. The schools I considered were all among the leaders in either sectional, regional, semi-state, or state championships.......using JH's website. 

Top 25

1.     Chatard

2.     Carmel

3.     Luers

4.     Cathedral

5.     Ben Davis

6.     Roncalli

7.     Dwenger

8.     Penn

9.     Sheridan

10.   Warren Central

11.   Hobart

12.   Ritter

13.   Snider

14.   LCC

15.   Jimtown

16.   Center Grove

17.   Mater Dei

18.   Tri-West

19.   Northwood

         Andrean

21.   Evansville Memorial

22.   West Lafayette

23.   Franklin Central

24.   Eastbrook

25.   East Central

         Columbus East

         Adams Central

 

Best of the Rest

28.   Bloomington South

29.   Scenina

30.   Breman

         New Pal

         Pioneer

33.   Jasper

34.   Lowell

35.   Heritage Hills

36.   Western Boone

37.   Lawrenceburg

38.   Reitz

39.   Linton-Stocton

40.   Griffith

 

 

 

 

 

        

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I like this list, BUT by just going the leaders list, the numbers are not going to be right. Adams Central would be above Eastbrook, as would Linton and WeBo . Of course, my math could be wrong, but I have Eastbrook at 108, Linton at 116, WeBo at 118, and Adams Central at 212. I found this by going to the individual team tournament history. However, I might have added wrong, I ran out of fingers and toes! :S

On 11/15/2019 at 11:19 AM, miner_35 said:

In my opinion, I believe that Linton would be the best team on Lutheran's schedule this year. I can't speak about the Wolves. Of course, Lutheran has played better competition, IMO, week in and week out. That is the biggest difference in the schedule as there is really not much of an off week in the ICC (Monrovia this year) compared to Riverton Parke and Fountain Central this year in the WRC. This should be a great game and once again I feel like turnovers will play a big part. I'll be rooting for the Falcons, but like I said earlier, I feel like this might be Lutheran's year. Either way, I would love to be at this game with two great 1A programs, with history, going at it. Good luck to both teams!

Looks like I was wrong on linton being the toughest team on Lutherans schedule this year if they played...

15 minutes ago, Donnie Baker said:

Couple of questions.

Besides you and Tankas, who named the Woofs the best offense in the state?

Second and foremost you really think NV is more battle tested with those 3 games than Lutherans and their schedule?

In my opinion, I believe that Linton would be the best team on Lutheran's schedule this year. I can't speak about the Wolves. Of course, Lutheran has played better competition, IMO, week in and week out. That is the biggest difference in the schedule as there is really not much of an off week in the ICC (Monrovia this year) compared to Riverton Parke and Fountain Central this year in the WRC. This should be a great game and once again I feel like turnovers will play a big part. I'll be rooting for the Falcons, but like I said earlier, I feel like this might be Lutheran's year. Either way, I would love to be at this game with two great 1A programs, with history, going at it. Good luck to both teams!

37 minutes ago, Oldbleacherfan said:

Name a better1A conference????? 

 

Linton has had had a great program for a long long time. If they stayed 1A they would win the whole thing. 

Someone is just glad there is life after the O'Shea era for LCC...

However, there are some great 1A teams  this year I'm glad to see some new faces get a shot. I can see any of the remaining teams winning it all. This is a good thing! 

I like Coach Crabtree's approach and feel like he will have his team ready. If they can take care of the ball, I like NV's chances. However, I feel like this might be Lutherans year. Good luck to both teams!

3 hours ago, Footballfan78 said:

I guess I just don’t believe in the hype around the state. Watched some film, and they look sloppy. Sorry it’s just what I see as an outsider looking in. Let’s let the players do the talking instead of typing an entire book. 

Believe it or not, I thought the same thing. They proved me wrong. Good luck to both teams this Friday. I feel like the team with the least amount of turnovers wins this game.

46 minutes ago, BendNotBreak said:

Yeah....  i agree...and WRC logic escapes me.......  now its ....Linton = Powerhouse .... wasn't it?.... ...Linton 20 EMD 44....

On their schedule, I would consider Linton the best team on it most years. Therefore Linton = powerhouse. Just my two cents 🙂

20 minutes ago, itiswhatitis said:

6 points in 2 years bump you up.  They got 3 points for last year's semi-state win.  If they win semi-state again, that's 6 points.  So unless they changed the rule that I am not aware of,  they will get bumped up to 2A. 

This is a new cycle. It should work that way, but I doubt it ever will.

51 minutes ago, Donnie Baker said:

I can think of several Liptons fans that would be on here complaining if it was the other way around. Swear to God they would 

I hate to say I agree, but I do. However, the only complaint you will hear from me is that this was the LAST game for those Seniors, not a meaningless regular season game. On top of that, not all of Linton's fans feel the way we are portrayed on here. All fan bases have bad apples, just ours seem to be louder than others. 😄

4 minutes ago, Wildcat1992 said:

Curious to hear the rationale from Linton on why they would call a timeout with 20 seconds left to score a td with their starters against jv kids. 

I can not answer yours, but maybe you can answer mine. How hard is it to take a knee when a player is down due to injury? 

3 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Your friend in stripes needs to get with the program. No running clock possible until the second half.

What I'm sure he meant was that Mater Dei would be up by 35 at the half.

3 hours ago, MDAlum82 said:

 Apparently no love for the Wildcat's from Harrell for 2nd wk in a row.   I was mildly surprised with the Harrell pick of Linton over MD, esp at the Bowl, but most viewed the game as a toss up going in.  Curious how MD is only a 4pt favorite over NK, esp after last night. Calpreps favors MD 31 - 14, & Sagarin gives MD +14.   One of my newfound friends in stripes made the prediction of a MD working with running clock by halftime vs NK.  That remains to be seen but only 4 points seems awfully thin to me.  Anywhere that tracks how well Sagarin or Harrell do with their predictions?  

 

It looks like I just missed meeting you! I came up at halftime and talked to the rest of Mr. Beach's crew. I am proud to be on their crew and have benefited from it greatly. Good luck to Mater Dei!

13 hours ago, AG said:

Technically they weren't "Kiserless" because Jack's older brother Sam was a senior QB.

I thought Sam was a Junior that year and a Senior with Jack as a freshman? 

1 hour ago, JustRules said:

That is what separates average crews from really good or great crews. Many crews don't spend the time attending clinics and meetings where these things are discussed so they aren't aware of it. Some crews may hear it, but it's hard to implement. When I watch HS games online or TV I see this kind of thing called a hold way too often. I see even less restriction called a foul. It helps understand why we have coaches screaming for holding because they are used to past crews calling it. If your crew isn't aware of this philosophy I strongly suggest you find a mentor or try to attend the IFOA clinic in the summer.

See I look at a game in the same way. Trying to explain to a coach why I'm not throwing a flag on something that is behind the play or on the other side of the field that is not a safety issue is always fun. My whole point is that technically that could be deemed a hold, it was there.  The OPI or not OPI is dependent on the angle we see it from. Sullivan should not have let them drive almost 70 yards in 20 seconds. The best thing is that the player is fine. Good luck to the Alices on the rest of their season.

7 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Then you probably wouldn’t want me to be the observer assigned to evaluate your crew. 😆

Just kidding. On a play like this it is unlikely I would downgrade anyone who called a holding penalty there, although it would be a topic of discussion in the postgame debrief. 

I do see what you are saying. Sometimes though that judgement is hard to make if you don't look up in time. Appreciate the input!

1 minute ago, Bobref said:

Reasonable people can have a difference of opinion.

This we agree on 🙂 I like you Bob and this is why!

10 minutes ago, Bobref said:

The proper technique is to see the potential hold and then look at the QB. If the ball is gone, or he’s in his throwing motion, hold the flag. I know it’s a hard concept for non-officials to get their heads around. But that’s why we get paid the big bucks. 😆

Thats all fine and dandy, but me and my crew all looked and agree it should have been called. 

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

No, there weren’t. Arguably - and it’s by no means certain from these views - the right OT pulls the DE down on top of him. But no good official would call holding there because the ball was out quickly enough that the DE wasn’t going to get there even without the possible holding.

We can agree to disagree as a good official might not see the ball released quickly if he is looking in his zone and not following the ball, but that's a different discussion. Regardless OPI was missed on this. Score should not have counted.