Huge Football Fan

That is not a block in the back. Wow

1 minute ago, Grover said:

Zero disagreement from me.  But wasn't the ball marked on the 2?  I took that to mean the ref thought he stepped out of bounds.  Great crew including two friends of mine so I'm not trying to point fingers.  Just curious.

If he didn’t get in(touch the pylon with the ball) then you would take the spot back to where the ball went out of bounds. The other pic from Twitter looks like it was inside the 1

Phantom block in the back?

3 minutes ago, Bobref said:

An airborne ball carrier must have the ball inside any part of the pylon when it crosses. A runner must cross inside the pylon, even if the ball is outside the pylon. The pylon is considered out of bounds in the end zone. So if you touch the pylon, you've broken the plane of the goal line.

I thought live that the ball was outside the pylon and that he touched the pylon with his empty hand but never really had a good look

1 hour ago, PHJIrish said:

The high school rule for a touchback is the ball placed at the 20 yard line.  Next level, pro and college the ball would be placed at the 25.  There is no fair catch rule in high school football.  The ball is placed at the spot the receiver catches it.

Lol. No kidding 

9 hours ago, PHJIrish said:

I don't know a lot of things, but I know that rule.😉

Yep!

No you don’t! They would get it at the 25 not the 20

6 hours ago, PHJIrish said:

This really isn't a question but an observation.  Twice during the playoffs, including once last night, a kick returner signaled for a fair catch at about the five yard line.  I guess they've been watching too much "next level" ball expecting the ball to be put in play at the 20 yard line.  It's up to the coaches to have their players up on the rules.

Hell even you don’t know the “next level” rules

17 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Rule change this year: 

“It is legal for a player positioned directly behind the snapper to conserve time by intentionally throwing the ball forward to the ground immediately after receiving the snap that has neither been muffed nor touched the ground.”

 

Rule change 2020

3 minutes ago, gindie said:

I had always heard that spiking from shotgun (ball straight down in front of QB) was Intentional Grounding and that spiking had to be done over center.  Mishawaka Marian did it twice in their last drive tonight with no flag.

Rule change last year. Legal now

17 minutes ago, gindie said:

Are offensive holding penalties always marked off from the spot of the foul, even if that spot is behind the line of scrimmage?  Just watching Valpo/Michigan City game and the holding occurred 2 years behind the LOS and they marched off 10 yards from there, making it 1st and 22.   If so, this must be different than College and Pros.

Yes that is correct and yes different from college and pro

10 hours ago, Bobref said:

That’s a false start.

They false started before they false started. Player on the end of the line (49?) flinched before he ran out to the numbers. 

1 hour ago, BTF said:

https://www.wane.com/high-school-sports/fight-for-sectional-championship-turns-into-brawl-in-gas-city/

It didn't appear that the Wayne kid was going after the coach. He was running toward #62 when a coach stepped in between them. 

 

I’ve been saying that the whole time. Looked like the coach was trying to get in between them without putting his hands on the player running towards them

8 hours ago, Prospect said:

Northridge did a great job last year with Leo. Take away one terrible unnecessary roughness call and Northridge wins that game. 

If Northridge wants to stay in the game they have to score every single time they have the ball.

How was it tonight?

8 hours ago, JustRules said:

The video wouldn't play for me, but if the slot guy moved up before the snap and got set then the formation is legal. He's covered which is legal. He just can't go downfield if there is a legal forward pass that crosses the neutral zone.

Agree with Yucca that the R has no responsibility for counting the number of backs on any play. Almost always at least 1 or 2 of the backs are receivers outside the tackles. This is 100% on the wings.

We don't have a signal for confirming both wings have 4 in the backfield. We have a signal if one of them has 5 in the backfield (tap flag). If they both have 4 there is no reason to do anything. In this case they would signal each other they both have 4 as neither had a flag per what's been reported.

This post is a good example of why still photos often can't be used to determine if a foul has been committed. There was additional movement after this photo and before the snap which potentially changes the legality of the formation. You can share thoughts with a lot of caveats.

The video shows the slot did not move up

2 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

This is NOT "R's" primary responsibility!  Again, the wings should have communicated (pre-snap) the # of players legally in the backfield.  

This cannot be missed as it is what dictates EVERYTHING that can/could happen at the snap of the ball.  

Never said it was R’s primary or secondary responsibility but the R can clearly see 4 players in the backfield right in front of him. Its a easy ask to say was someone covered up on that play? Looking at the formation I could see where a wing “could” miss one of the 2 upfront/wing people cuz they are side to side and it’s sort of an unusual formation. Can never be missed but we know mistakes happen and this is one that it missed they don’t miss it the second time. Good catch by whoever posted this play/question 

14 minutes ago, Irishman said:

The craziest part is it was the wing on the BOTTOM that was arguing with our coach about it being legal. 

Ok so it looks like a mistake. He is probably arguing because he feels he’s right. The only issue would be if he knew he was wrong and was arguing but let’s skip that. Now the question is how did they miss it? Maybe the stack wings and they missed one. To me the R should know that he has 4 in the back field. Only way to have this be legal is if they have the slot covered up. Does this crew have a slot covered up signal? However they do it this shouldn’t be missed. 

3 hours ago, Bobref said:

This is the established procedure for taking a knee at the end of the game, and how the officials are to deal with it:

II. O.    Victory Formation
1.    The purpose of the Manual’s treatment of “Victory Formation,” end of game scenarios is to insure a consistent approach to these common situations, and one that minimizes the possibility of unsportsmanlike acts at the end of the game.

2.    At the end of the game, and occasionally at the end of the first half, a team will line up in a “Victory Formation,” preparatory to taking a knee and running out the clock. Victory Formation often occurs when Team A alters its usual formations, usually by narrowing down splits, and moving backfield players in a protective screen around the quarterback, often with a “safety” deep in the offensive backfield. But any formation can be “Victory Formation” in an end of game situation, where Team A indicates it will be taking a knee to run out the clock.

3.    When Team A is ahead by 9 or more points and can take a knee(s) to run out all of the remaining game clock, the officials will request Team A to declare its intent on whether they will be taking a knee. If Team A indicates they will be taking a knee, U and R will instruct all players that the play will be over immediately after the snap, and that all players should avoid contact, on pain of a foul and potential disqualification. However, if the snap is muffed, all bets are off, and it’s play football.  

4.    If the offensive team declares that they will be utilizing the Victory Formation to take a knee, and runs any offensive play other than a kneel down, the officials will rule this an unfair act under Rule 9-3-1, allowing R to enforce any penalty deemed equitable under the circumstances. This does not apply if the snap is muffed.

a.    In most cases replaying the down at the previous spot and resetting the game clock is an adequate remedy. 

b.    Of course, Team B retains the right to decline the penalty and accept the result of the play.

5.    If the offense muffs the snap or fumbles the ball while in Victory Formation, the ball is live and can be recovered and advanced by either team, as if Team A had not been in Victory Formation. 
 
 

Just to be clear I don’t think what you wrote  I clear in regards to the original post. 1 min with 3 timeouts the game is bleak and the outcome is almost for sure but it’s not. We have seen bigger comebacks then down 10 with a minute. They have timeouts and can force them to punt/turn the ball over. 
I think you are still playing football in this senerio 

6 minutes ago, Dirty D said:

That is not my question. If a team says they are taking a knee and the defensive team gets overzealous is there a penalty. I view that as more unsportsmanship than some of the things that is called.

The football game is 48 minutes. Also “unsportsmanlike” in regards to penalties does NOT involve contact(FYI)

4 hours ago, Dirty D said:

What about a team down 10 with 1 minute 3 timeouts and on defense. Other team said we are taking a knee. The defensive team coach told his kids to go through the defense because the game was not over. They did not he called another timeout told the players he wanted them on their butts regardless of taking a knee. He told the crew chief there was nothing in the rule book against it. Fortunately the players had more since than him and did not resort to that, but he was lighting them up for not doing it. Had they did it, is there anything there?

The game is 48 minutes not 47. 10 points 3 timeouts 1 min is a stretch but keep playing football 

53 minutes ago, Punttheball said:

The balls were tacky!  That's it.  They also stated they have never felt balls like that and that I must have done something illegal.  They had never even had a team that has used the prep kit on a ball before.  

I’m not sure how anyone would even know if you have or haven’t but if they are a state finals crew they have worked 100’s if not 1000’s if games so for them to pick out something with the balls is sort or a red flag that something was unusual with them. I wasn’t there and didn’t feel them but you would think they had to be sticky for someone to say something?

2 hours ago, Punttheball said:

I did.  He apologized and said he was not aware of the video or the suggestion from Mr. Faulkens to use it.  The most frustrating part of the whole thing was the unwillingness of the crew to listen to reason.  Everything was matter of fact.  I was wrong and they were right.  They had worked a state championship game and that was that.  It wasn't even about the balls. It was the arrogance of two of the crew members.  There was no way the prep kit would make the balls tacky.  They accused me of spraying an illegal substance on the ball.  I felt I maintained a professional approach to it and they called a great game.  They are for sure a top notch crew, but the night started rough for sure.  I am glad it is something that has been brought up and hopefully the message spreads among the crews.  

Most of everything you say sounds perfectly reasonable. The process you use, the video, everything seems right on the up and up except what caused them to question the balls in the first place. What made them different then any other ball that has been used or is brand new? Why did they ask you about them or the process? 

3 hours ago, 5GetsYou1 said:

Absolutely Legal. The ball did not cross the expanded neutral zone, K still has the option to run, kick or pass. 

I don’t think this verbiage is “absolutely” correct

On 12/23/2020 at 11:12 AM, Bobref said:

I did not see a foul. I don’t consider myself an expert on the NCAA rules. But I didn’t see either contact by the defense, or reaction by the offense.

The only reaction I saw on the offense was by the QB? Can the d cause the Qb to jump?

5 hours ago, Bobref said:

Go and re-read the purpose of this thread.

Maybe they got it right and it was an example of great officiating in a stressful foggy situation 

44 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Man, I saw some outstanding officiating yesterday. I was camped in front of the TV most of the day, switching around. We hear about it all the time when somebody throws a phantom OPI flag that "costs Purdue the game." Let's hear it for some outstanding plays:

• In the Tennessee - Vanderbilt game, Sarah Fowler became the first woman in history to score a point in a Power 5 game when she kicked an extra point. The deep wing official on the Vanderbilt sideline had the presence of mind to retrieve that ball, and work his way through the crowd that was congratulating her on the sideline and give her that football. You know that's something the crew talked about beforehand. That's just a great piece of officiating.
• In the Florida - LSU game, on Florida's final drive that ended in the missed field goal, the attempt was set up by a 30+ yd. pass play in which Trask threw a bullet to a crossing receiver and, somehow, the Umpire avoided getting hit by that ball. You could see he was anticipating it, and at the last second he turned like a matador as the pass went by like a speeding bullet. Missed him by inches. Great game awareness.
• Of course, the best bit of officiating goes to the crew in the Ball State - Western Michigan game. If you didn't see the craziness that ensued at the end of that ballgame, you're missing something. Watch the crew on the play. Totally disciplined, staying in their assigned areas, flowing as necessary. Then the calm and very clear way the Referee explained why the game was over. Great work in a real pressure situation, as the winner of that game advances to the MAC championship game.

Chime in with some outstanding officiating that you've seen recently.

In the LSU game before LSU kicked the winning fg they ran that terrible play to the sideline that resulted in loss yards then there was a bad scramble but Florida called a timeout. When they came back somehow LSU was in the middle of field? Rewatch that winning kick. How was the ball now in the middle of the field and not the hash?