CoachGallogly

45 minutes ago, Bears62 said:

Dude, no one is trying to stop the big 3 and CG from winning titles lol. They are the best and deserve to win. LITERALLY, the only point of dropping the bottom 8 of 6a out is because those teams at the bottom 8 are at a SERIOUS disadvantage. Nothing more, nothing less. Everyone knows the same schools are going to keep winning 6a. It’s why there has been additions of classes in the past. To make things as balanced as they can and give good football teams a chance on as level a playing field as they can. The top and bottom of 6a is far more lopsided than any other class. Not even an argument

Actually it's entirely about those three schools, because if they weren't winning at a high level this thread wouldn't exist. 

47 minutes ago, temptation said:

Depends on your definition of “invest” I guess.

Investment in high school football is incredibly measurable.  From facility investment (weight room, AV capabilities), parent organizations, head coach salary and daily responsibilities, caliber of head coach, size of assistant coaching staff, funding of assistant coaching staff, caliber of assistant coaches, non conference scheduling, youth program organization and development, weight training courses in the daily school schedule 

All of these are crucial if you are doing all of these things at an elite level, then enrollment is like dumping gas on the fire, but if you are not doing all these things, and doing them well then enrollment is like dumping gas down a drain pipe

55 minutes ago, DT said:

Don't you think the columbus North or Law Jeff or Chesterton and Merrillville fans would love to see their kids get a shot at a ring at Lucas Oil?  Maybe you are becoming to used to it at CG

Yes I'm sure that's the case at every high school.  That's the beauty of the playoffs only 6 winners out of over 300 schools. 

53 minutes ago, DT said:

You surprise me.  We can only fix what is fixable.  Geography and enrollment are fixed attributes.  The IHSAA has addressed enrollment every time they have added a class, and in the process doing everything possible to maintain competitive balance

You can't wright off a program by calling it an outlier. 

That's just plain lazy

No that's statistics. 

24 minutes ago, Bears62 said:

Huh? Are you a real football coach?? You just named 3 mega schools and implied all other 6a schools can be just as good. Merrillville, Valpo and Lafayette Jeff all have great football programs. They will probably never field a team that can beat Carmel without a serious enrollment boost. Let’s not completely ignore the advantage of having thousands of more kids to choose from lol.

And shrinking 6a gives the teams at the bottom (aka the schools who are at the biggest disadvantage) a fair shake in 5a. That’s all. Carmel, BD and Warren aren’t going anywhere.

Center Grove has made it to the final four  10 of the last 11 years.   It wasn't that long ago LC was in the finals 2 out of 3 years, and just whooping people.  They are both in the bottom half of 6A.   North Central, Lake Central, Avon, Noblesville, Crown Point, all have zero trips in the past 10 years, but are in the top 1/2 of 6A.   Enrollment is not the overriding factor for each of their success or lack of success individually.   

There are many reasons schools succeed.  Enrollment is one of those factors, but it is not the only factor, and often it's not even #1 on the list.   The 3 mega outliers certainly have an extra advantage due to their size, nobody would argue that.  But North Central is 98% of the size of Warren Central, and you have two very very different scenarios.  

It doesn't appear you are following me on this.  Cutting 8 teams or 16 teams from 6A doesn't reduce the chances of the big 3 from winning.  You're argument reeks of self-interest if you deny that fact.  

13 minutes ago, temptation said:

Gotcha.  I’ll phone over to the Tech/Perry AD’s and tell them to “invest harder.”

Do you believe Tech and Perry have invested in competing at the same level as those other 3?   If yes then we have issues, if not then we don't. 

9/14 state finalists in 6A history have been Carmel, Warren, or BD.   That's roughly 2/3 of the participants are from those 3 schools.  Shrinking 6A to 24 teams, or 16 teams doesn't take BD, Carmel, and Warren down.  Investing in your programs like BD, Carmel, and Warren does.  

2 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Like the Sectional of Death in 3A?

Yes the IHSAA does have a history of it.  

The issue in 6A doesn't seem to do with the Indy schools, it has more to do with the non-Indy schools.  The reality is there needs to be some revamping of the scheduling mechanics outside of Indy for the bigger schools.  The depth of schedules just don't prepare them the same way.  

I'd wager the 1A schools would disagree.  🙂

Certainly possible he chose Kentucky over Bama, and those others.   It's also important to remember if a college needs 4 OL they don't just offer 4 guys, they offer 8 guys and the first 4 get it (maybe they hold out a spot for  the special player). 

2 minutes ago, Bears62 said:

3821 and 2054 is still pretty damn close to being 2x. And regardless, that is still a humongous difference, your window must be pretty big. That’s an entire large 5a school. I don’t see how you or anyone could say that isn’t an issue. And if you compare the true top and bottom it’s 5286 and 2054. 

The gap is bigger for 1A.  

You shouldn't make a playoff format to fit outliers, they should largely be excluded from the calculus.  6A and 1A by nature of being at the end of the spectrums will have outliers, no way around that.  A good rule of thumb is you'd like the top of the class to not be 2x the bottom team in a class.   If you take 6A, and remove Carmel and BD, the top of the class is Warren at 3821, and the bottom is Valpo at 2054.  That's within the window I see no issues.   

Now if you prescribe to the theory there are major issues in 6A (I don't, but let's say you do.)   There are other ways the IHSAA can mix things up, the most obvious would be to get a little creative with sectional gerrymandering.  For instance you could put Carmel, BD, North Central, and Pike in a district thats 1,2, 4, and 8 in enrollment all together.  That would spice things up a bit more.  

On 3/15/2021 at 10:50 AM, US31 said:

I would classify every two (as we do now) but based on a "rolling 4 year" amount of SF points.  I think that is what others might be suggesting as well.

That was the original plan from the IFCA but our planned got Bobby Coxed right before the finish line.  

9 hours ago, Bobref said:

The 5 yd. contact rule is only in the NFL. In NF, a DB can freely contact a receiver anywhere on the field, as long as two conditions are met:

1. The ball is not yet in the air.

2. The receiver is in front of or even with the DB, so he's a potential blocker.

Im aware, I guess I thought we were talking all levels not just HS football. 

"We're not very big, but we make up for it by being slow." -??

Since picking of receivers is allowed by default 90% of the time, and since virtually all rules favor the offense and QB, I'd love to see DB's get 10 yards to excessively bump (except the face mask or horse collar)  let's level the playing field a bit.  That extra 5 yards levels it a lot the DL gets a real shot now at pressure.  

The idea is to reclassify using the playoff points every two years, but base it off the previous four years in a rolling format. 

22 minutes ago, DanteEstonia said:

But it isn't as asymmetrical as basketball, is it?

I don't see how it could be without eliminating a couple classes, or creating a couple more.  Basketball should be chasing football not the other way around. 

1 hour ago, DanteEstonia said:

Between classes, not within them. The football tournament, even though not perfect symmetrical, has 6 Sectionals that are not 4 or 8 teams. The 4A basketball tournament has 5 Sectionals that aren't 6 each; however, that's the remainder of teams, and all are spaced evenly as possible in each Semi-State. There are several Sectionals in Classes 1A-3A that have Sectionals that deviate from the remainder. 

That happens in the football playoff set up as well.  5A currently holds that spot of being treated like red-headed step child.  Some sectionals everyone gets a bye, some section's 2 of 5 have to play an extra game than everyone....

11 hours ago, DanteEstonia said:

But the football tournament is asymmetrical between classes, not within them.

How do you suggest asymmetry is achieved among 64 teams?

On 2/21/2021 at 8:49 PM, oldtimeqb said:

Interesting that we are talking about symmetry of classes. I’m thinking they don’t care much. 

IHSAA just released the boys sectional draw. Some have 5 teams, most have 6 or 7, and a few even have 8. Tell me how that is symmetry for that tournament?

The Football tourney already lacks symmetry I don't get your point

On 2/26/2021 at 8:27 AM, Muda69 said:

So the IHSAA exists to recognize "success" and basically ignore failure.  Got it.

 

 

The IHSAA exists to conduct athletic competition based on the desire of the consensus of schools.  If a preponderance of schools desire a relegations system....it'll happen.  You're issue isn't with the IHSAA but school admin and school boards.  

DT back when we put the SF together I brought up the concept of bumping teams down who had not won a playoff game in the four years span, down one level.  It garnered virtually zero support in the committee, and died on the spot.  

There is no appetite from schools to accept such a label, and I doubt the IHSAA has any interest in forcing it upon anyone.  

Also while Carmel is still growing at the high school it has begun to shrink at the elementary levels.   The community is built up, very few places for a new home to be built.  As this group of parents graduate their kids the high school will begin to shrink too, you wont get enough in the move in/move out exchange to keep up with the size.  You already see Carmel closing elementary schools.  

Carmel isn't going to drop to 2000 kids or anything, but it's very likely they fall well into the 4,000's in the next decade.  

A question I have is how long until Westfield, and Noblesville start to close in on Carmel in size.  Both of those schools are 1 horse towns, and building homes like there's no tomorrow...Westfield especially.  

Berwyn-Cicero Morton in Illinois has nearly 8,200 kids.  

DT classification systems shouldn't be created as a response to a couple schools it should be developed in a way that benefits most (if not all) schools in a similar fashion.  

Your breakdown takes a class where the smallest school is about 40% of the biggest, by creating two classes where one group gets a gap thats about 49% while the other class has a gap it's about 75%.   That's hardly an equitable split for the teams in your top breakdown.  

An equitable break down puts Carmel, BD, and Warren in a class, and the other 29 in their own class.   Obviously that's incredibly silly to do such a thing.  The IHSAA would be better off keeping the same 32 setup but lumping the three in their own sectional along with North Central.  But obviously there are financial implications of such a move.