CoachGallogly

Every couple years this same discussion occurs.  Here is a little insight on why things are the way they are right now.

First off when this was all established I pushed for a 32 team 6A, and a 32 team 1A but not a lot of support existed for that setup.  While I still support that model, I will tell you that the the final product is probably the correct way to do it.   Here is the mindset behind the current setup.  

Currently in 6A you have a 5286 enrollment at the top and 2054 at the bottom. On initial investigation this looks like the top of the class is 250% the size of the bottom of the class.  While this is true it's not anywhere close to even proportional spread throughout the class.  We have two very large outliers in Carmel, and BD.  If you remove them the gap from top to bottom is 180%.  Or well within the 2x range.   5A sits in the 140%.   The gap in 6A certainly is still bigger than 5A but not but not at the scale it first appears.  

If you were to put the top 32 in 6A, and then make an even 64 in 5A.  The gap in 5A grows to larger than the 6A spread, not by a lot but it his the 2x wall you'd try to avoid.  

Let's look at the 1A  level then  currently it appears 1A is at over a 3x spread.  380 largest school vs. 121 smallest.  But again the outlier problem misleads reality in that class.  If you take out the bottom two schools (actually it's 3 right now, two have the same number)  you get below the 2x line at about 190%.   Now what happens if you put the bottom 32 in a class by themselves (and cut out the outliers) The gap drops to below 140%.  This would mark one of the smallest gaps.  

In addition when you do that the 2A gap goes up, the 3A gap goes up, and the 4A gap goes up.   

At the end of the day if you take out the outliers at the very top and very bottom the current setup produces the most tightly compacted classes we can (while still attempting to keep to the 64 or 32 team model).  

Who had two days in the pool of "when will DT return"?  I was way off I said three weeks.  

"Stop, don't, come back."- Willy Wonka 

See you in three weeks when you return from your most recent self-imposed banishment.  

Games run all day Friday and Saturday for those that need their football fix this weekend.  All games are televised on Fox Sports Network (Detroit). Streamable as well, enjoy. 

The issue isn't do you count virtual students in your enrollment....the answer is yes BTW, the issue is many families (in the thousands) didn't send their kid to any school this year in any form.   This occurred in higher rates in urban and very rural areas with lack of access to internet can be an issue.  It'll be interesting to see how the IHSAA handles this.  

2 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

Yeah, as was mentioned, that was the year after that team. How did GRCC do that year?

I was correct on my info for GRCC  they went 6-4, and lost first round.  That Andrean team was the year after the state championship team, but still went 14-1 and was runner up.  

2 minutes ago, DE said:

Wrong year.  Andrean beat WL 52-7 in '13.

You are correct, thank you for that my apologies.  

14 hours ago, scarab527 said:

At Andrean in 2014, we went up to Grand Rapids to play Catholic Central. We won 28-0. Sharing just for context, obviously that one matchup from years ago means little, but I don’t remember many IN v MI matchups in recent years.

To put that game in context however, that was a REALLY good Andrean team who beat West Lafayette by 50 that year, and that GRCC team went 6-4 and was a first round playoff exit.  So that West Lafaytte semifinal team probably losses to that first round playoff losing GRCC team by a couple scores.  (GRCC that year would've been a 4A school compared to WL and Andrean being 3A though)

I can speak a little to this topic having coached a decade in both Indiana and Michigan.  I like many of you may have played a game or two against teams from other states and watched film as well.  

Here are a few quick observations.

Ohio:  I believe is above the rest of the group by a sizeable margin.  The difference in Ohio is the depth in my opinion, there are more teams of high caliber at each level, it's not top heavy or bottom heavy.

Kentucky:  I believe is the bottom of this list.  Population, and lack of a mega city anywhere play into this.  Still many very good programs in Kentucky, but depth is lacking in all classes. 

Illinois:  the largest state by population, but also the most unique with the only true mega city among these states.  Illinois boasts very few second tier sized cities lumping most of the larger schools, and most smaller private schools in one geographical region.  Illinois has quality teams in each class, and posses a few Mega schools, but many of the mega schools (for whatever reason) are actually sub par compared to those a step down in size.  The sheer size of the state gives it quite a bit of depth, but also quite a few poor programs.  

Michigan:  Michigan is unique because it posses no mega schools in the whole state, and only a handful in the 2,000's.  For a state nearly twice the population of Indiana, Indiana's top 10 schools would all be top 2 or 3 in Michigan in size.  What Michigan does have however are about twice as many football playing schools as Indiana.  Michigan has 2 eight man divisions, and 3 11 man divisions all within the size range of Indiana's 1A.  That's a lot of small school football.  Michigan has a lot of depth in programs but the top really lacks "big programs" the way Illinois, Ohio, Indiana do.  There are a lot of "kinda big schools"  the smallest school in Michgan's biggest class is only roughly 500 kids bigger than the biggest school in the 3rd biggest class.  Or another way of saying Michigan has about 200 schools that would be really big 4A, or 5A schools in Indiana.....that and in the small classes is where Michigan's strength lies.  

Indiana:  Indiana's real weakness is depth in classes, being a state with half the population of Michigan, Illinois, and Ohio that makes sense.  Where Indiana's strength is at the top division with quite a good number of Mega schools, and the top end schools in each class tend to be quite comparable to other states.  As we've seen the Indiana mega schools (and private school powers) can play with any midwestern states, it's after you get out of the top 5-10 in each class does the gap to the neighboring states start to win out.   It's more a population thing than anything.   

If I was ranking I'd say 

1. Ohio

2. Illinois/Michigan

2a. Indiana

5. Kentucky

I know that's cheating but it really depends if you value depth over top end results.  

If you are missing HS football you are in luck, Michigan which has had it's tourney started and shut down multiple times, is back on (for now) and will be playing regional round games this saturday.  If you need a football fix you can stream games.  All state finals games will be televised for those that have the correct cable package.  Even if you don't know the schools....it's high school football in january, can't complain.  

On 11/27/2020 at 10:30 PM, crimsonace1 said:

Here's what I was able to pull. Note: These are unofficial and reflect 4-grade enrollment. With regards to Hammond, I merged Clark & Hammond's enrollments, as well as Gavit & Morton's, as is the consolidation plan. The Evansville schools, for example, tend to get a bit of an enrollment bump. I have no idea what Park Tudor's enrollment is, but they're solidly 1A. Danville's result tomorrow will determine whether it is 3A or 4A for the next two years. By this math, that will likely affect Delta (which goes down to 3A if Danville wins). 

UPDATE: I have made edits to reflect LCC being in 2A and Madison (not Madison-Grant) in 3A. 

IHSAA enrollment - Copy of Sheet1 (3).pdf 76.38 kB · 189 downloads

Is Park Tudor really 200 students??

On 12/5/2020 at 10:24 PM, Purdue Pete said:

I’m not that close to the subject but I wonder how or if Kevin O’Shea’s exit plays into the recent performance of the Lafayette area schools?

Zero

Isn't it easier to win in 5A than 6A?   Wouldn't more bigger 5A teams in the north increase the chance of a state title?  If they don't have a shot in 5A, why would you think they have a shot in 6A?

That simply isn't true.  Kids from neighboring districts can enroll at SA.  The bigger issues in this comparison is urban v. rural.  Urban has a MAJOR advantage.  

The fact that he argues against a one-size fits all enrollment system but then calls for a one-size fits all multiplier he's arguing for and against the same thing.  

I understand why some public school people like the multiplier angle....it feels good to stick it to the private schools, but it's too simple and doesn't accomplish anything close to equity which is the whole point of class system, to put "like schools" together.  The reality is a simple multiplier is a elementary caliber solution.

However, the IFCA success factor, while probably not a "calculus level" solution it's at least an Algebra II level solution.  

On 11/26/2020 at 12:57 PM, Lysander said:

I argued this for weeks with Coach Gallogly in 2012 when the SF was announced (largely because I thought the SF wouldn’t result in what Publics wanted) and was a lone (REALLY LONE) voice..........

So despite my earlier dislike of the SF, I’ve come around to it because it is a targeted, thoughtful and surgical approach rather than the slapdash “one size fits all” approach of an automatic bump or multiplier. 

 

Glad to see you came around Lysander 🙂  Hope you are doing well my friend.