MonkeyButt

I don't believe any undefeated team is "overrated". However, they may not be as good as their undefeated records says. That all depends on the quality of teams they play. I am not familiar with CP's schedule and because they are in the north and I am from central Indiana I tend to have the central Indy mentality that many 6A northern teams are overrated in comparison to teams in Indy and the surrounding area. But that is only because I have yet to see a 6A team from the north come close to competing with an Indy team for a state championship title.

On 9/2/2022 at 2:05 PM, MonkeyButt said:

6A. Warren Central

5A. Whiteland

4A. New Palestine

3A. Chatard

2A. Scecina

1A. Lutheran

I know I posted this and then turned around and changed a little bit on Facebook with the 6A particularly, but I am going to stick with this. I think WC can do it if they don't trip themselves up. I think it all starts with getting past CG in two weeks. 

I am very curious to hear thoughts on this game. I believe Brebeuf is on a roll and a different offense then what Roncalli saw in the 31-14 win over Brebeuf earlier in the season. Also the defense is getting turnovers. But can they contain Luke Hansen and one of the best O lines in the state? Thoughts?

1 hour ago, FastpacedO said:

I am no expert on New Palestine football but I definitely read the article and went by that.

The paper is wrong. He is a junior and 3 year starter.

6 minutes ago, Southside said:

I think the Mr Football award is presented by the Indy Star, not the IHSAA.

Who votes on them? Sports writers?

1 hour ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

I think I would be okay with mr football for every class.  But I don’t want it to just be whoever makes it to state at the lower levels like the mental attitude award is for.  
 

for the most part though…I really only see 6A fans complaining about who won on a year….it really bugs the 6A fans when a small school player wins it from my perspective.  

IHSAA doesn't do itself any favors with the way they do things when it comes to the playoffs and these awards. 

1 hour ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

Mr football is possible for any football player 1A-6A 

 

you can argue about who the better player is but I don’t think there has been or will be another player with the credentials that Jack Kiser had. 
 

56-2 over 4 years as a starter

He led his entire team in Passing, Rushing, Return Yards, Tackles, INTs FOR 3 STRAIGHT YEARS. 

The kid literally did everything including the kicking/punting for his team and he put up ridiculous numbers doing so. 
 

He won Mr Football and was deserving of it.  Never left the field and was the darling of his community…absolutely amazing role model and stand up citizen off the field.  
 

We can stop talking about how someone else should have won it over him because he was the embodiment of what everyone wants out of a star football player and was “Mr Football” more than anyone.  The kid literally played QB, RB, WR, DE, LB, SS, K, P and was great at all of them. The most Position-less player this state has probably ever seen 

 

I say all of this knowing I have David bell on every single one of my fantasy teams and love watching him play to death.  But let’s stop disrespecting Jack Kiser just because he played 1A in HS and isnt in the nfl currently. 

This post and all of the others arguing for who should have won that year is a great example of why we should have a Mr Football for each class.

If we are just talking about D Bell and Kiser and not including Romeir Elliot (whose stats were insane his senior year), not to take away from Kiser bc I believe being on a 1A team he had the opportunity and also was probably needed to play all of those positions and he excelled at them. But would that have been necessary if he played 6A or better yet, the MIC? I believe he still would have been a stud at one or two positions and a Mr Football candidate, but he would not have had to be called on, most likely, to do more than one (depending on the school.) He was a 6A athlete on a 1A team.

The same goes for Bell. He was an amazing WR, 4 year starter at Warren, and also probably the best DB his junior and senior year. Also an amazing special teams player. How good would he have been on a 1A team? See what I am saying. We can have this argument all day long, but at the end of the day it is merely our opinions because we don't know unless they reversed roles. Both kids were special HS players and it could have gone either way with either of them winning Mr Football. 

Just now, MonkeyButt said:

This post and all of the others arguing for who should have won that year is a great example of why we should have a Mr Football for each class.

If we are just talking about D Bell and Kiser and not including Romeir Elliot (whose stats were insane his senior year), not to take away from Kiser bc I believe being on a 1A team he had the opportunity and also was probably needed to play all of those positions and he excelled at them. But would that have been necessary if he played 6A or better yet, the MIC? I believe he still would have been a stud at one or two positions and a Mr Football candidate, but he would not have had to be called on, most likely, to do more than one (depending on the school.) He was a 6A athlete on a 1A team.

The same goes for Bell. He was an amazing WR, 4 year starter at Warren, and also probably the best DB his junior and senior year. Also an amazing special teams player. How good would he have been on a 1A team? See what I am saying. We can have this argument all day long, but at the end of the day it is merely our opinions because we don't know unless they reversed roles. Both kids were special HS players and it could have gone either way with either of them winning Mr Football. 

Let me include that both kids are amazing and outstanding people and huge inspirations to their communities.

I find it funny that all these years Kiser/Bell is still debated by others while neither of them personally debated it and have been friends all along the way supporting each other regardless of who did or did not get Mr. Football.

1 hour ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

OL definitely gets the shaft.  

That is why I am not a fan of going off of stats alone.

9 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

You could make a reasonable argument that David Bell wasn’t even the “best” player on his team that year. Without a doubt he was the most talented player, but people forget that Romeir Elliott ran for 3000+ yards and 41 TD’s that same year. Elliott should feel every bit as snubbed as Bell.

I love David and I love Romeir! I was at everyone one of their games. Romeir was literally the driving force behind the offense. David was consistent and the big playmaker for games like Trinity and North Central (sectional championship). He was also hurt for some of the playoffs going into the state championship game. Even David says that Romeir should have been in the discussion and most likely the front runner. Both were deserving. But I will also not take away from Kiser for being an amazing high school player and doing his thing at ND regardless of class. David has been the more successful college player, that is obvious. My question is how is Mr. Football determined? Popularity it seems, but is it suppose to be season stats? If so, regular season only or total season? I know a lot of people argue about this, but someone should win it this year and if they do they will deserve it in my opinion. 

20 minutes ago, PantherPride said:

Unfortunately for my community it is true. I don’t know all the details as there’s a lot of rumors but there’s 3 players with mug shots online cause they were over 18.

Sorry to hear that @PantherPride. Hopefully Northwood can overcome it with who they have, but more importantly I hope the lesson these boys need to learn is learned. 

45 minutes ago, PantherPride said:

OMG Northwood! You have your best team in 6 years and can’t lay off the bottle until after the tournament run???? Wow

It was Northwood?!! Oh wow! I hope this is not the case.

9 minutes ago, SBFootballFan6 said:

And these are just the over 18 ones. Under 18, you get ticket and parents have to come pick you up. These are just the only ones whos names can be released.

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

Just now, fenderbender said:

Like minor (under 21 but over 18) consumption.

I see them now. I am not familiar with these kids which means I don't have familiarity with their programs. But regardless, outside of football, there are bigger issues to address here than how the playoffs will be effected. At least for the adults involved in those programs. This is very frustrating to see kids throwing away their lives or seasons or reputations for that matter. Hopefully they learn from this.

1 hour ago, SBFootballFan6 said:

You can find some bookings on inkfreenews.com

I'm waiting for others to post more, and only adults can be booked, underclassman would be held waiting for parent pick up.

You mean like criminal charge bookings?

On 10/22/2022 at 9:29 AM, crimsonace1 said:

Your list is similar to mine. The line between the top teams in 4A and 5A is very small (and there are quite a few years where the top 4A team could win 5A - heck, between New Pal, Cathedral and Columbus East, the majority of 5A championships have been won by success factored 4A schools). 

That is a crazy thought!

3 hours ago, BTF said:

Perspective from Northeast Indiana: No dog in the fight. 

 

Why New Pal is the best team in the state:

They beat Westfield by 14 points, whereas the #1 team in the state only beat the Rocks by only 5

They've obliterated every other team on their schedule. 

 

Why New Pal isn't the best team in the state:

While the 14 point over Westfield is impressive, let's face it, the Rocks aren't as good as the team they had last year. 

Sagarin has New Pal as the 7th best team in the state. The highest ranked opponent outside of Westfield (14) is Mount Vernon, who is ranked 39th. 

New Pal's strength of schedule is less than impressive. 

 

What would make them the best team in the state:

If the Dragons beat Roncalli by 14+, then blow through East Central and Northwood by 21+, then I'll be ready to partake in the conversation as to why New Pal is the best team in the state. And that could happen. But in the present, I've got to give the nod to a team like Cathedral, Brownsburg, HSE, or Center Grove based on the brutality of the schedules they play week in and week out. 

 

Here is the unfortunate reality. When debating the #1 team in the state, the advantage is always going to be given to the team who wins state in the largest division (6A) and whoever Sagarin says is the best. The 5A champ and 4A champ will always have an uphill climb in convincing others that their team is the best. 

I completely agree with everything you are saying. Even the very last point. Way to sum it up BTF.

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Because hyperbole and sarcasm is so easy to detect on the internet, right?

Fair point.

30 minutes ago, temptation said:

Man, you are making it easy to be a Roncalli fan.  Don’t be the Merrillville of central Indiana please.

So I guess what you think of me and my claim is that no one can argue that New Pal is not the best team, that New Pal will roll through the competition with ease, that New Pal has no weaknesses, and that if New Pal is challenged at any point the disqualifies them as the best team in the state. Yeah I am sure you can assume that from one statement where I say that I believe New Pal is absolutely the best team in the state of all the classes.

Let me also say this which is consistent with other posts I have made:
- NP will be challenged every week bc of the target on their back being #1

- NP is the most balanced team I have ever seen in HS football, but that doesn't mean they don't have weaknesses bc they do

- NP is their biggest opponent, but there are several teams that could take them down that I believe are some of the best teams in the state too (Please argue with me that there can only be one best team in the state bc of semantics)

- NP is only the best team in the state as an opinion, however, they can at the very least make it a fact they are the best team in 4A by winning at LOS

- Yes I believe that it is possible for NP to lose, but then again anything is possible

- Did you not admit you believed Mt Vernon was the most improved team in 4A? Yet turn right around and discount their achievement of being the most improved bc you wanted to make NP not seem as good bc Mt Vernon has a freshman QB? I guess a there is no such thing as a freshman QB being better than an upperclassman QB? Is that your argument? Good luck with that one. Luke Ertel is one of the better QBs in 4A and will prove to be one of the best QBs in the state sooner than his senior year. He improved tremendously from week 4 and showed how good he can be by playing in his first playoff game being one of the main reasons why MV hung in there so well

- I believe that the best team, in my opinion, can also be challenged in a tough game by one of the most improved teams in 4A (your statement not mine) at their field. I also believe it could have happened even out our field. I believe both of those can exist and be true. 

Sheesh Temptation it I hope you don't make everyone else you have to spell it out bc you take all of their posts literally. And here you go pushing me to write long posts again.

18 minutes ago, temptation said:

You must live in a world where words don’t matter and you can just constantly change the meaning of them despite them being front and center for all to see.

The difference in us is the obvious bias. You have skin/blood in the game.  I don’t.  I have not seen one other poster who is not a New Pal fan (as you claim) that thinks they are the best team in the state.

The “blow through the tournament” comment was not made by me so don’t drag me into that one.  I’m actually on record (in this very thread) as stating there may be some challengers to New Pal which was unheard of 8 weeks ago.

28 minutes ago, temptation said:

 

 

LOL This is fun. Talking with some who doesn't understand simply linguistic terms and when a fan does believe their team is the best team. Of course I can't be sold out for New Pal who is and has been ranked #1. most of the year. Since you love to stalk me on here and twist my comments because your feelings are hurt let me be clear again. I will double down because I believe they are. It is called an opinion. I also said that they have to get through to LOS to prove that. Why is that so difficult for you? 

I am not not your bubble (THANK YOU GOD) to know who you pay attention to (other than me) where you are not seeing comments where people have stated they believe New Pal, and Roncalli I might add, are the two best teams in the state. But it isn't my responsibility to hold your hand and find those comments. 

I could care less if you are a New Pal fan or not. I could also care less if you are turned off by my fandom of New Pal. I am not here to win you to my side. 
 

14 hours ago, temptation said:

should roll through them with relative ease.

I will admit I did quote your wrong. There's your quote. I guess I should ask for clarification since you could have been hyperbolic in your statement. But looking at the context of the rest of that post I'd say I was not wrong in the point you were trying to say I was making. So let me ask about this statement. Where did I every say they should "roll through them with ease"?

 

16 minutes ago, temptation said:

There is zero difference between those quotes.  All semantics.

I’ve stated all along they deserve to be in the conversation and you are the one creating a pissing contest and splitting hairs.

Then you double down AFTER they let a mediocre Mount Vernon team hang around and state it as an ABSOLUTE.

You must live in a world where words don’t matter and you can just constantly change the meaning of them despite them being front and center for all to see.

The difference in us is the obvious bias. You have skin/blood in the game.  I don’t.  I have not seen one other poster who is not a New Pal fan (as you claim) that thinks they are the best team in the state.

The “blow through the tournament” comment was not made by me so don’t drag me into that one.  I’m actually on record (in this very thread) as stating there may be some challengers to New Pal which was unheard of 8 weeks ago.

Man, you are making it easy to be a Roncalli fan.  Don’t be the Merrillville of central Indiana please.

Yeah it's called hyperbole. smh Look it up and you might actually understand my statement instead of injecting your opinion about me into it. Sheesh 

4 hours ago, temptation said:

“Yes absolutely the best team in the state!”

EIGHT HOURS ago.  
Scroll up.

Let's compare your quotes shall we: "the UNQUESTIONED best team in the state" vs " Yes absolutely the best team in the state". I am not here, unlike you apparently, unwilling to be questioned about my opinions on teams. I do believe they are the best team in the state as do many other people that aren't New Pal fans. It is not unquestioned, however, because at the end of the day it is who is on top AND because the State Champs don't have a playoff between each it will always be questioned and debatable, for years to come even. 

Look I am not here to have another pissing contest (things getting personal in other words) with you and you can continue to bring old arguments or whatever. You know football better than you are showing in your poor nit picking of my supposed comments that the best team (and let's settle for 4A right now simply because NP is ranked #1) can and will come across tough matches especially in certain situations. I NEVER said New Pal will blow through the 4A tournament. I have even posted to the opposite that they will have a tough road to LOS. Argue with me all you want that New Pal isn't the best team. Fine. And if they lose then clearly they aren't. But neither of us can prove the point that New Pal is or isn't the best team of all the classes even after Thanksgiving Day weekend is finished. At the end of the day we only have our opinions and people will disagree with them. 

3 hours ago, temptation said:

Knew you’d take the bait.  Your late night damage control spoke volumes.

Mount Vernon is a fringe top 75 team in the state…rivalry game or not “the unquestioned best team in the state” should roll through them with relative ease.

Every team ranked in front of New Pal has taken care of/put away clearly inferior competition without missing a beat.

New Pal was down in the third quarter…to a team with a 15 year old QB whose parents picked him up after the game because he’s not old enough to drive.

Facts are facts.

I love how you pull quotes out of your butt as if someone actually said them and then "quote" them as if the fake quote helps your argument. If you can't argue with real quotes or things that people actually said (in case you don't know what a quote it because apparently you don't) then why argue at all? Misinformation much? Oh sorry disinformation. LOL And try acting like you know sports and that the best team can be challenged or lose on any given "Friday" instead of still projecting how offended you were when someone disagreed with a team's ranking in your poll. So is your number one team in your rankings just going through roll through the competition with ease according to your logic? You are actually arguing what now or just doing your "let me put him down with my witty comment" rebuttal? I am sure you win arguments a lot with that. 

8 hours ago, dmizers3 said:

Yes they might be.  Not understanding this reply at all.  They beat a good team on the road by double digits in a game that wasn't that close. Nevermind the fact it was a rivalry game.  If not for a very questionable call that took a TD away from New Pal at the end of the 1st half and New Pal electing not to score late that game could have easily been 25 point + margin.

Those are facts that irrelevant to Temptation because the best team in the state apparently can't have a close or tough game with someone, especially a second game against their biggest rivalry in the playoffs and on the road. So I guess there are no "best" teams in the state if what Temptation or SportsFreak is saying is true. smh

10 hours ago, temptation said:

Let me start by saying I think Mount Vernon is one of the most improved teams in the state and if I heard correctly last night starts a 15 year old at QB.

That being said, @MonkeyButt likes to use the transitive property in his argument that New Pal could be the #1 team in Indiana regardless of class.

Well, that can work both ways.

New Pal was trailing in the 3rd quarter and defeated a Mount Vernon team by 11 points.  Mount Vernon also lost to the HCC’s 7th place team (Noblesville) by 8.

HSE and Brownsburg beat Noblesville by a combined score of 83-42 this season.

Let’s pump the brakes a bit.

Both things can still be true: New Pal is the best team in the state and they had a tough game against Mt. Vernon. And yes the transitive property can apply. I don't deny that it goes both ways.

18 hours ago, Sports Freak20 said:

But New Pal is probably the best team in the state, right Monkey Butt??  They should run through 4A right???

Yes absolutely the best team in the state!