MonkeyButt

11 hours ago, temptation said:

Oh I can handle them just fine but you seem triggered by them for some reason.

If what you mean by triggered because I disagree with you then I must not understand the definition. I literally interact with 6 or 7 people who choose to post their rankings for the sole purpose to create discussion. I disagree with some and some I do not. But none of them get upset to the point of personal attacks because they know that just posting their rankings is opening themselves up to be opposed and that people will disagree with them. You are literally the only one who resorts to personal attacks. So who is triggered again? But keep up the fine conversation because you're doing great.

11 hours ago, temptation said:

Not what you said the first time…

So this forum does have a "Quote" button. Please enlightens us where I said Roncalli should come out "slinging ball". I will wait.

On 10/2/2022 at 2:19 PM, temptation said:

You’ve had at least 3 rambling manifestos this week regarding the rankings.

Why post rankings if you can't handle "rambling manifestos"? Take things personal much? Seems that way since you gotta get personal with me when I disagree with your rankings. 

3 hours ago, temptation said:

Says the guy who has admitted to not seeing Roncalli in person and is relying on MaxPreps in an attempt to spin his narrative as an absolute.

I’m just glad we put the “other reasons” why your family switched schools to bed.

”Who wants to work on just one part of their offense?”

”I have nothing but love for the kids but animosity for the coaching staff.”

LOFL.

Wow you are great at having a debate. So much there to convince me you know what you are talking about.  Personal attacks and throwing of subject are hallmark signs of an insecure person without any knowledge of what they are talking about. You nailed it! LOL

3 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

I guess if Roncalli is forced to throw the ball 20-25+ times then it just ain't their night. I'm willing to bet the Roncalli staff knows what their QB is and isn't capable of doing in the event they can't get their ground game going. But I think its senseless for Roncalli to make it priority to come out and start slinging the ball around the field for the sake of possibly needing it down the road. Roncalli has an identity, and a good one at that, force the other team to adjust rather than vice versa. Nobody has stopped Roncalli on the ground this year. 

I never said they should come out slinging the ball. That would be dumb. Just wondering if Roncalli has a weakness and if so is it the passing game, and can anyone contain the run enough to find out? I look forward to this next game they have against Elder.

20 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

I've seen numerous Chatard and Roncalli teams run roughshod through 3A and 4A tournaments in years past without having the need to throw a forward pass. Any of the New Pal teams with Charlie Spegal could have won state without throwing a forward pass. There may come a time when Roncalli needs to throw the ball, but they haven't at all this year out of necessity. If you're gaining 5-6 yards a carry, why throw it?

But what if they can't? I get Temptation doesn't want to think about that, but I am asking what if they cannot run with the success they have been having. What then? Their only completing 50% of their passes. Their top WR is average only 29 yards a game. I am just saying for discussion sake and from my jaded and bias perspective apparently. SMH

40 minutes ago, temptation said:

It's all starting to make sense now.  Thanks for the clarity.

(Love it when people tell on themselves...)

Love when someone can't back up their arguments, but rather brush out by making smart aleck remarks. 

1 hour ago, HomeCookin said:

Do you happen to know how many kids at New Pal or Roncalli play both ways?

I’m not sure about Carmel or HSE, but CG has 1 that plays part time.

That is typically the biggest difference in the 6A school compared to the lower classes. No way a team with multiple players going both ways can make it through a 6A schedule.

Cathedral, a top program in any class hasn’t had successful season in 6A yet. It’s just different when you have to play those big schools week in and week out.
That is why the rankings are skewed for the 6A schools. IMO

We have a couple of starters that go both ways, but we tend to give some rest to OL more than other positions. We will rotate some offensive and defensive players in on both sides of the ball. Maybe about 4. I don't know about Roncalli. I'd think similar, but I could be wrong.

I agree a 6A schedule would be tough. Not impossible, but tough. Cathedral isn't doing to bad this year. But the playoffs will truly tell.

1 hour ago, temptation said:

I think you are jaded and letting your bias get in the way.  I get it though.

All I was saying is just because they haven't utilized or shown one, doesn't mean its not in their arsenal.  They have one of the best lines/backs in the state so you sort of answered your own question.

As far as the "get in trouble" question, no one knows but you stated it as an absolute...

"It is quite evident they don't have one."

Seems like wishful thinking on your part.

 

And your evidence to the contrary? What coach wants to only work one aspect of their offensive strategy during a game? From a coaching perspective if you have a strong run offense and a capable passing game you still want the passing game to get plays in during the game and be effecient. Just looking at their passing stats they complete 50% of their passes and they have thrown at least 109 times. So they aren't very efficient when they do throw and only 4 TDs to go with that. While they have run the ball 328 times. 

I have more evidence to support what we are seeing versus what you're saying is unknown. They can't complete passes and score so it isn't as much of what is unknown as they have to run the ball because they are not getting it done in the passing game. Wouldn't it be evident that if they could pass well they would still be run heavy because they run the ball so well, but still able to score and complete a higher percentage of passes. Even Roncalli fans have expressed to me their concern about the passing game. 

And what is there to be jaded about and bias about? The numbers speak for themselves. Their WRs are average 29 yards or less a game. They are averaging 80 yards passing a game. They're running their star RB 40 times a game nearly (on two occasions at least). Why would a coach jeopardize his star RB like that if the passing game could help take some off his back and give him some rest for the playoffs? Just because you have one of the best lines and backs in the state doesn't mean you run them to death. New Pal has a great run offense and OL too. We still throw the ball and attempt to be as balanced as possible while giving reps and practice to both sides of the offense.

What is wishful thinking is making an argument with assumptions and no evidence to back it up. 

 

6 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

LOL.....Looking at Tayven Jackson's stats his junior and senior seasons, and now Tyler Cherry's stats this year, guessing Coach Moore and his staff is very pleased.....

 

Tyler Cherry is looking good. 

14 minutes ago, temptation said:

Don't have one or haven't needed one?  They have only played one one possession game.

Not sure I understand your question, but if it ain't broke don't fix it applies here. But if they do get in trouble what will they do? 

23 hours ago, FCGriz said:

Think about this - Louisville Male came into the Roncalli game with a strong rush defense. They had given up an average of 76 yards rushing against Kentucky 6A #1 (St. Xavier), Kentucky 6A #2 (Ballard) and Kentucky 6A #5 (Trinity). Remember also that Male defeated Trinity who has wins over Carmel and Center Grove.

The Royals rushed for 414 yards against Male on Friday night!

Question is how far do they go without a passing game. I checked on their season stats and it is quite evident they don't have one. I would say they are reminiscent of CG the past couple of years, but even CG had a 150 yd plus passing average a game. It was there to supplement when the run game was slowed down, and it could if necessary. New Pal has that kind of offense, a great rushing attack behind a talented and and an even better passing game than CG dreamed of having. Question is will New Pal's defense be athletic enough and tactical enough to contain the run. Notice I didn't say stop. I really don't see stopping Roncalli's run game. The hope is to keep Hansen from rushing 200 plus yards and limit the 3rd and shorts or goal line stands. I think, honestly, it will come down to coaching and defense. Which coach will have the best scheme for the opposing offense and make the better adjustments throughout the game. And who will get the most pressure on the outside with the most disciplined, yet aggressive LBs in the middle. Should be an interesting game and I am looking forward to seeing how they do against Elder.

2 hours ago, HomeCookin said:

All of the arguments on this topic are good. Fortunately for Roncalli, New Pal, and any other school that feels there strength of schedule is holding them down have a GOLDEN opportunity to add CG, Carmel, Cathedral, and probably a couple other MIC schools to there schedule starting next season. But I’m willing to bet none of them will.

Hard for me to understand why you would schedule a 6A team from out of state when there’s plenty of schools locally looking for games.

If there were two lower class schools that would schedule CG, Carmel, and/Cathedral it would be New Pal and Roncalli. 

3 hours ago, temptation said:

I can take the heat.  Trust me.

One moment you are outraged and nit pick every aspect of the rankings and then in the next breath, you state that they are irrelevant, lol.

"Outraged?" Not at all. "Nit pick?" Absolutely! "Irrelevant?" Only in the capacity that they only give suggestions as to the best teams in a particular order, but have no bearing on actual results at the end of the year. They are for fun. Please continue to post so I can continue to nit pick. Well of course unless I agree with your opinions. 🙂

On 9/29/2022 at 1:24 PM, MonkeyButt said:

I am interested to see how Yorktown finishes the conference. I think they are as good as either of GC or MV. But then again I am new to the conference. I am looking forward to hearing the results of their game tomorrow.

Well it looks like my suspicions were right at least about Yorktown and GC. I think Yorktown surprises Mt Vernon as well and ends up second in the conference. They could disrupt some folks in the playoffs in 3A in the north. 

6 minutes ago, temptation said:

You just can’t make your mind up can you?

LOL Come on Temptation why make rankings if not to have people argue with you about them? I still hold to everything I have said about your rankings, but I am well aware that is all they are. All that matters is being the last one standing at LOS with a trophy over head. 

21 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

No…my logic is that while perhaps fun, this is just hypothetical. Handle business first. Win the games you need to be crowned champion in your weight group. Then the “logic” of who beat who on a given night while playing schedules of vastly different difficulties becomes a discussion of a tad more merit. 
 

I get it that you are invested in one of those teams. 

It is hypothetical. Rankings are always the fun of the season to debate. But you are right, nothing matters until the dust is settled and someone is crowned king of the hill at LOS. I love that two 4A schools are in the discussion though. 6A and 4A are going to be fun to watch come playoff time. 

9 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Both New Pal and Roncalli can beat any team in the state on any given night. However, to date, neither have anywhere close to the resume that Brownsburg does. New Pal has one “good” win and that’s against a 4-3 Westfield team. Roncalli got their first good win of the year last night. Beat Elder next week and then Roncalli belongs in the conversation of best team in the state.

I totally agree. I won't argue schedule against schedule. Brownsburg has a tougher schedule week in and week out. As do the top 5 schools in 6A. Head to head I absolutely agree. Roncalli and New Pal could take anyone of them. If not a win it would be some close games. 

6A: Brownsburg over Carmel

5A: Whiteland over Snider

4A: New Pal over Northwood

3A: Chatard over Gibson Southern

2A: Scecina over Andrean

1A: Lutheran over North Judson

6 minutes ago, temptation said:

In other news, dozens involved in a post game brawl in the parking lot following last night’s LN/WC game…

Embarrassing.

Soon we are likely heading for two tickets per player and everyone else has to pay for the live stream.

That is so frustrating! Athletes and families don't get to enjoy the fullness of the game at WC because as soon as the buzzer sounds security and everyone is being herded out of the stadium immediately. 

32 minutes ago, temptation said:

Nah, teams improve during the ebbs and flows of the season.

Head to head is my #1 factor when creating these.

Common opponents and how each team fares can give folks an idea but there are other variables that must be taken into account such as when the game is played, the venue, weather, etc.

The reason I moved Roncalli in front of Carmel/BD was precisely what you mentioned when it came to the Male/Trinity dynamic.

As far as why I hold CG to a higher standard is the fact that they have not lost to an Indiana team in 2+ years.  I need to see it to believe it (perhaps unfair).  I said the same thing about Westfield and now think I firmly have them where they belong based on 2022 results.  I was a bit bullish on them due to their domination of the HCC.

Wins also gain/lose significance as opponents’ seasons play out.  Suddenly LC/BD’s wins over Warren don’t carry as much weight to me.

I did move Brownsburg ahead of CG after last nights destruction of a Zionsville team for which I have a lot of respect.

I now think those top NINE teams may be interchangeable as Roncalli/Fishers are playing their way into that conversation.

Thanks for reading.
 

All that seems fair. I think that if Roncalli beats Elder and wins out should be moved up though. Other than that the playoffs will really weed out the rankings of the ones who deserve top ten and those who don't.

1 hour ago, Trojanmp52 said:

I have seen the 2023 class play CG since 7th grade, in my opinion the WC team was good, but was not special outside of 2 kids.  One of them does play anymore and just playes  basketball and the other one is New Pal. Stating Quarterback now

I know the two you are talking about. The one isn't playing basketball. He just dropped out of everything altogether. Yes the QB is at New Pal, but there are definitely several more weapons than those two. 

2 hours ago, fenderbender said:

I will be interested to see how You think New Pal’s schedule will help or hurt them the rest of the season.  
 

Being healthy is a huge plus.  

I also remember two years ago Roncalli went down to EC for final regular season game and it took EC about 1.5 quarters to wake up after playing the likes of Connersville and Batesville.   

I think it is something in the minds of all New Pal fans. It is really going to be a testament on the coaches on keeping the starters tuned up and focused each game. It will help because of the rest starters will get and the reps second team will get. It will help on keeping the injuries down. But it is something that I think players are also keeping in the the back of their minds. They know that each game is important, but that most likely Roncalli is on the horizon. 

1 hour ago, Warren Central Warrior said:

Warren Central's freshman and JV football teams finished MIC play as champions!!! The future is bright for the Warriors after all. Just thought I'd share that with the GID

The 2023 class and the 2025 classes both went undefeated and should be state contenders right now. What is happening between their Freshmen year and now? 

And what was the Freshman team's record?

On 9/26/2022 at 8:17 AM, FCGriz said:

Roncalli's next three games are KILLER, arguably the toughest schedule in the State!  The Royals can easily finish 6-3 after a 6-0 start.

Louisville Male - three-time defending State runner-ups in Kentucky 6A, over 900 wins in school history, has a victory over Louisville Trinity who has defeated both Carmel and Center Grove this season.

Cincinnati Elder - has dominating wins over Louisville St. Xavier who has wins over Louisville Male plus Louisville Trinity and Cincinnati St. Xavier (42-10) who earlier this season defeated Penn 35-10. Elder's only loss is a 17-14 squeaker to national powerhouse Cleveland St. Edwards.

East Central - another dominating season with only loss to Ohio #2 Cincinnati Moeller.

This ending schedule is exactly why I believe Roncalli, especially after the decisive win last night, should be ranked in the top 2 above CG and Carmel and HSE for sure. I believe that if they beat Elder then they should definitely be moved up. IMO New Pal and Roncalli are the two best teams in the state. But I am being told by some folks on another thread that pointing this out doesn't matter. Roncalli doesn't play in the MIC or HCC schedule, therefore, their place in the rankings will never put them above those top teams. Doesn't make sense to me in a multi-class power ranking.

3 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

It is very hard to call a team the top team in the state from just being eye candy.  They have to play a similar schedule all year long...while a single game looks good, it is not the same of playing that degree of difficulty all year long.  Its all hypothetical.

Roncalli and New Pal are outstanding...but they are not playing the best of HCC and MIC all year long....and then in the playoffs, both the best of HCC and MIC, along with the best of the north.  Its surviving the grind that makes a team the very best.  I don't put a ton into a single game or if a team beats an opponent by a larger spread or that another team didn't on a given night.  Carmel lost to Trinity on opening night....impossible to judge a football team for the season based on an opening game.  CG lost to Trinity in double OT in Louisville, coming off playing WC and Carmel, losing one of the top backs in the state.  It is not an apple to apple comparison.  

So according to this logic why do people even try to put together a multi-class power ranking? According to this logic the HCC and the MIC and Center Grove and Carmel should be the only teams in spots 1-16 and still yet your logic says that after those conferences and two teams the other 6A teams, because of their schedule, will fill up the remaining spots. 

Head to head and common match ups between teams and the teams they play is the only other fair way to include teams in lower classes. In some ways I joke about these power rankings, but honestly the "They have to play a similar schedule all year long..." metric in a power ranking like this is moot. You can't compare because even a school like CG lost a majority of their games and someone said that an undefeated Merrillville should be ranked above them, someone would use the argument, "Well Merrillville doesn't play the tough schedule that CG plays. That logic and metric defeats the rankings. The question has to be can Team A defeat Team B on any given day. Not Team A doesn't play the year long tough schedule Team B does so regardless they can't be ranked above them even though it is agreed Team A could or would beat Team B.