foxbat

5 hours ago, Jbk2 said:

Don't forget Western Boone is back in 2a

5 hours ago, Punttheball said:

Nobody has forgotten.

4 hours ago, FlyingHigh said:

Hey, have you heard??? WeBo is back in 2a.

I suspect there will be a future thread about 15 pages long about the flaws of SF after they pick up another blue ring in 2A. 😀

Lord, I apologize for that there.

2 hours ago, Boilernation said:

Thanks! I've finally reached the age where guys I watched at Purdue now have kids playing HS football. 

Know what you mean.  Retired from youth coaching back around 2020 when COVID wiped out the season. I realized that COVID was just the catalyst when I attended an LCC scrimmage with Harrison a couple of years later and I'm going down the LCC varsity roster looking at all the kids that I had coached in the youth program that were playing varsity.  I then looked at the coaching staff and realized that four of their coaches were kids that I had coached in the youth program.  Was definitely time for me to pass the reins with or without COVID.

2 hours ago, First_Backer_Inside said:

Who was the 2009 QB for West Lafayette? Won Mr. Indiana Football if I remember right. Just remember watching him on film the week before our high school played him with my dad when I was a bit younger and knowing we were in trouble.

Wodicka.  I would have listed him, but I didn't see any WL football in person until 2011 when the rivalry resumed right before LCC entered the HC and would see WL annually.

There are four on the IHSAA career stat site that I've seen in person:

• Chris Mills - LCC
• Clark Barrett - LCC
• Mikey Kidwell - West Lafayette
• Kyle Adams - West Lafayette

Hands down, the best of those four was Mills who graduated in 2009.  For last decade out of those above, I'd have to go with Kidwell who graduated in 2016.

3 hours ago, WWFan said:

Between you guys, AC, LCC, and Linton the 1A guys is about 3 of us now

Don't forget Scecina.

18 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

Currently on the Region Sports board he's on one thread posing as three different people having conversations with himself. 

Well, that's one thing they say that's good about schizophrenics ... they always have someone to talk to.

20 minutes ago, Gap Down Backer said:

Interested to hear thoughts on this.  AC and Lutheran have dominated so I'm looking at schools like North Judson, Carroll, Laville, Pioneer, Sheridan, S Putnam, Providence.  Thoughts?

I actually heard that, upon the announcement that Faith Christian was going to go to 11-man this season, some 20-25 players from the LCC football team became Baptists and will be attending Faith in the fall. 

Lord, I apologize for that there.

On 4/13/2024 at 7:18 PM, Footballmomma said:

Are they playing the ncc? Thought they were voted out and are independent now? 

No, they were part of the folks that voted out Harrison and McCutcheon on the grounds of distance and competitive balance.

47 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

It was Algebra.

16 hours ago, oldtimeqb said:

HH- GS is going to end up being like Brownstown- Lawrenceburg. 2016-17

Semi state one year, sectional semifinal the next. 

18 hours ago, tango said:

Of course not. As I've said multiple times (obsessed in your words), those teams in the same Sectional would provide some great games for fans and great competition for the players. As to the financial side, maybe it isn't a concern to a public school, but maximizing gate receipts is an important revenue source for us. Personally, I'd rather see big games between schools in the same general area in the Sectional, not the Regional or Semi-State, because I'd like for the schools to reap the rewards of bringing thousands of fans instead of the IHSAA.

It almost sounds like you would prefer a Sectional that isn't competitive from top to bottom? What's the rationale for that?

There's good and bad to the idea of big teams meeting in sectionals.  LCC and Pioneer have had their fair share of being #1 and #2 in the rankings over the years only to end each others seasons before regionals started.  With that said, there were some great crowds for those games and the schools got their shares of the gate.

27 minutes ago, temptation said:

Just curious as I am out of the loop on this topic, but how do other states do things when it comes to seeding?  What is the most popular method?

Is it solely by record in most cases?  All schedules are not created equal so would it incentivize a softer schedule for some schools?  How does schedule strength factor in?

No real seeding in Texas.  Top four in a district get to play after the season is over ... everyone buys a ticket if they want to watch anymore football that year.  In 2A through 5A, the teams are pre-determined in Division I or II based on their district.  In 6A, the top two largest schools go in Division 1 and the bottom two go in Division II ... exception is 1A, 6-man, where there are only the top two teams per district that advance.  Each team then plays a "counterpart" in the next district in bi-district for first game of post-season based on division ... the two Division I teams in one district play the two teams in Division I from the next district.  It's basically the equivalent of regionals in Indiana for their first post-season game where you "represent" a grouping and play the "representative" of the next closest grouping.

Texas places teams in districts and it's all based on how you do against the district to get to the post season.  If I recall correctly, non-district doesn't count for or against in determining post-season eligibility.

1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

Faith has money to burn, what with it's large size and somewhat militant approach to tithing for its members. Mr. Viars runs that organization with an iron fist, and he wasn't shy several years ago about making sure Faith could use the  power of local government to get his hands on that sweet, sweet bond money:  https://www.purdueexponent.org/city/article_76f488fe-ad76-543f-8a67-148430583373.html

To be quite fair to Faith, while most religious institutions tend to do for them and theirs, Faith has worked with the local government to provide some facilities for the use of the community as a whole and not just their congregation.  Faith built the, currently, only skate park in the Lafayette area and it's open to the community.  Even when folks were worried that Faith's current expansion efforts might end up overrunning that park, Faith has committed to the community that it will find space on its grounds to make sure that there will be an available skate park.

My main surprise with them building a football stadium is that, they had a rental deal with Jeff last season for 8-man that cost them pretty close to nothing.  The issue is likely that, with the move to 11-man, that arrangement would be much tougher to pull off because 8-man usually played on Saturdays.  Then again, Cathedral has used other institutions' ground for their home field too and, with five other schools with very nice facilities in the Lafayette area, I'd have to imagine that at least one of them would be open on any given Friday night.  Toss in Benton Central just up the road less than a half hour and there's a half dozen locations.  Until Faith gets stable in football, it would seem like a better fiduciary route.  Of course, Faith's always been known for soccer around here, so perhaps it's being built as a soccer venue that allows football to be played on the pitch as opposed to the traditional Indiana setup of a football field with the orange and blue spray paint on the gridiron.

5 hours ago, Mod22 said:

Faith Christian fielded an 8 man team last year and will be going to an 11 man team in the 2024 football campaign.

They are building a turf football/soccer stadium to be ready for the 24-25 season.

I'm surprised they spent the money on football/soccer stadium; especially given that they are just moving to 11-man.  Then again, Faith has fairly extensive locations around town and gets some community monies tied to providing community services like the skate ramp park over on the east side campus. 

7 hours ago, BTF said:

IHSAA calls it "unique," which is laughable. There's a reason only one state does it this way, because it's really kind of stupid. If the Brownsburg/Ben Davis game didn't open eyes, than nothing will. What would Texas, California, Georgia, or Ohio say if they were told, "by the way, the two best teams in the state are going to meet in the first round." They'd declare lunacy. Would these same people who voted against seeding vote for a blind draw for the college football playoff? We all know the answer to that. Kudos to Bob Gaddis for his politically correct response. 

 

No they wouldn't.  The Texas post-season system while not all-in, does nothing at all to "seed" teams outside of, in the past, putting the two largest of the four "winningest" teams in district in the Division I and the two smallest of the four "winningest" teams in district in the Division II.  They then square off with the next district numerically ... The top two largest teams of the top four "winningest" teams in District 1 square off against the top two  largest teams of the top four "winningest" teams in District 2.  If that produces #1 vs. #2 in the first game, called bi-district, then so be it.  Just the way it is.  You play who you play.  No lunacy, no whining, no nothing ... you just go out and play.

22 hours ago, Impartial_Observer said:

Anyone know if Coach Wilson moved on or is he still teaching at Madison?

He's still showing up in the teacher directory for the school: https://www.madison.k12.in.us/mchs-contacts ... third from bottom on All contacts. 

8 hours ago, slice60 said:

Maybe we can start a grass-roots movement in all sports-- the school that wins the highest class tournament is the STATE CHAMPION...the school that wins all of the smaller class tournaments are CLASS CHAMPIONS.

6 hours ago, slice60 said:

Lafayette Central Catholic (27)

Baseball (9) 2003-04 (1A), 2006-07 (1A), 2008-09 (1A), 2009-10 (1A), 2010-11 (1A), 2011-12 (1A), 2012-13 (1A), 2021-22 (1A), 2022-23 (1A) Boys Basketball (3) 1997-98 (1A), 1999-00 (1A), 2002-03 (1A)

Girls Basketball (3) 2005-06 (1A), 2014-15 (1A), 2015-16 (2A)

Football (8) 1976-77 (1A), 1999-00 (1A), 2009-10 (1A), 2010-11 (1A), 2011-12 (1A), 2012-13 (1A), 2015-16 (1A), 2019-20 (1A)

Girls Soccer (1) 2020-21 (1A)

Volleyball (3) 2010-11 (1A), 2017-18 (1A), 2021-22 (1A)

26 titles in Class 1A, 1 title in Class 2A. Back in the one-class era, LCC won zero State Championships. I rest my case.

Not sure I understand the impetus for the thread nor even the LCC example.  I'm pretty sure about the most I've ever heard anyone say about a program is that they might have won the class above them that year as opposed to pretending that their title in their class makes them more than just that, the state champion in their class.  I'm not sure that 6A feels in the least "diminished" because a 3A school is also called a state champion along with the winner of 6A.  I'm also not really sure that the response to 6A school winning a state championship if they played a 1A team would be much more than, "duh."

Of course, there are other issues with the proposal despite the straw man example of a 6A program beating a successful 1A school.  In 2019, there's a good argument that 5A New Pal likely would have clipped 6A Carmel even though Carmel won 6A.  Your proposed idea would have done exactly what, I'm assuming in spirit you are proposing to not have happen: let a "poser" call themselves state champion.

On 3/13/2024 at 2:12 PM, Coach Nowlin said:

Just putting this out there:  Gateway in INdiana where this data comes from is ANY MONEY the school corp pays you.   For instance, when I look at my "gateway" number, it is more than the teaching contract with the 2 varsity sports I coach and its stipends.   I do Middle School reffing for my AD, school has to put it on my payroll , which came from central office decision, so be it, but those type of things raises the number on Gateway.   

Just throwing it out there.    

Does that also include the implied value of the "free" faculty parking you get on the fourth row of the student parking lot?

Lord, I apologize for that there.

2 hours ago, HoopsCoach said:

Yes. In the 2 year cycle of 22-23 and 23-24, there were actually 6 schools included in the 1A alignment which did not compete in the 1A tournament during the 2nd year of the cycle.  Traders Point Christian, Anderson Prep Academy, Rock Creek Academy, Oldenburg Academy, Indiana Deaf, and Dugger Union did not compete in the tournament.  So if 1A had started with 32 in this cycle, the tournament this year would have included 26 teams.  Sectionals would start with 4 teams in each, so if one or two teams drop from the tournament, you end up with a 1 game sectional.  Indianapolis Tindley could have won a sectional without playing a single game.  Looking at who the 32 smallest schools were, it is very possible that a sectional would have included Traders Point, Indiana Deaf, Tindley, and Anderson Prep.  That would be the definition of a participation trophy.

 

 

Of those six schools, four ... TPC, RCA, ISD, and Dugger Union ... moved to 8-on-8. 

Another wrinkle in the 32 for 1A also becomes that the vast majority of schools that will play 8-on-8 will be 1A schools and you may have some movement up as well.  Faith Christian just started playing football for the first time and did so as an 8-on-8 program and has already decided, after one season, that they want to play 11-man next season.  Granted, they aren't eligible for post-season due to their newness, but I bet that if 1A went to 32, ISD might just jump back into the fray in 11-man.  And they played 11-man for over two decades in 1A, so they wouldn't necessarily be a "newcomer."  Would that then push someone out of 1A in that rotation or would there be a +1 in one of the sectionals?

4 hours ago, JustRules said:

I agree. Random draw with all-in does still determine the ultimate champion. It's just a very odd way to do it. Nobody would ever come up with this system if they were creating a new system from scratch. We just have too many people who grew up in this system and feel it's the only logical way to do it. People are inherently resistant to change regardless of how crazy the current system is.

I'm kind of the opposite.  Coming from large school, Texas football ... my alma mater boasts some 3,000+ students in a school district that has like 10 6A schools ... I admit I had a big school bias in football and was very used to the idea of qualifiers and split p/p and public leagues.  Coming to Indiana over a couple of decades ago, this small school ball, 1A/2A, has quite grown on me as well as the all-in.  I still like watching big school games every once in a while; especially since my kids have attended Jeff and my sons play or will play at Harrison, but I still go and take in 1A/2A games each season just for the fun of it.

1 hour ago, JustRules said:

I think the reason the all-in only works with a random draw is the teams at the bottom are very unlikely to be competitive in the first round. With a random draw they have the hope they'll draw another team at the bottom so they have a competitive game. That's what helps keep them motivated once they are out of conference title contention. The argument many make against a qualifier is once a team loses 3 or 4 early games they have nothing to play for. That's one of the key reasons I think there are some coaches opposed to seeding. They know they could always be that lower team praying for a lucky draw. 

I'm not sure that's the only thing as there are still bragging rights games, traditional rivalries, etc., but there's some truth to that.  Coming out of Texas where the rankings are done based on standings in a district, you could be in a 10-team district and see your season ended by the 3rd game unless you pull an inside straight.  There were still rivalry games and "sister school" games that motivated teams to play on later in the season, but sometimes you were already looking a year into the future before that stench started to rise in the locker room.

In Texas, we never thought much about districts because they were already set for you.  The state put you in, somewhat, geographic proximity with other same-size schools.  Think of the sectionals for Indiana at 1A-4A.  I'd conjecture that while everyone's talking about seeding/qualifiers, the one thing that I think Indiana's missing is "How will it impact conference structure?"  If random draw goes away and that supposedly automatically brings about qualifiers, then I'd also expect the a number of conferences to go away or completely realign from their current forms ... especially those that are mixed class ... and not through an organic process that we see now.

6 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

That 16 seed still QUALIFIED for the postseason. They effectively earned that right to get blown out by a #1 seed.

 

2022 Monrovia is a statistical outlier. A complete anomaly. The only team in the 10 years I've tracked the postseason using Sagarin to seed the postseason that has beaten three top 32 teams en route to a sectional championship. That's it. And if I recall, that was a loaded sectional with a bunch of top 32 teams with Monrovia being just outside the top half at the conclusion of the regular season (34th or 35th). But because of the all-in, blind draw, the top 2 teams in that sectional played the first round making their path that much easier from the jump. Had they been seeded 1-8, not sure how Monrovia fares.

But that's beyond the point. Cinderella is a myth when it comes to Indiana high school football, 2022 Monrovia be damned. If you seeded each sectional 1-8 or 1-4 in 5A/6A every year, it would put an end to this nonsense. True seeding would effectively start the qualifier domino. 

That's conjecture.  You'd have an argument if Monrovia made it to the second round or even the sectional final and lost, but in essence, Monrovia did what everyone says you have to do to take that crown; they eventually played the best in that sectional and beat them.

As for seeding them, go ahead and seed them.  It's not costing Indiana anything extra as there is already that "10th game."  Whether it's guaranteed terminal or guaranteed "near terminal," it's still on the books.  You can certainly argue about whether the schools get a "take" of the 10th game, but that's relatively easy to work out.

Again, I've still not seen the reasoning that all-in only works with a random draw.  Perhaps it eventually leads to folks deciding to create a qualifier, but it's not fact that it only works with a random draw.  And maybe it does lead to a qualifier and maybe folks just say, "That's pretty much what we expect the first round to be and now it is pretty much guaranteed."  It just seems odd to me that there are statements of conjecture as fact and wanting to skip to the "foregone conclusion."  What does it hurt to seed first and see where it goes?

1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

All coaches adjust. Just like they did from the old cluster system. Just like they did for the success factor. Coaches will adjust once seeding is implemented down the road and then to ultimately a qualifier as that is inevitably the next step after seeding. The all-in cannot exist without the blind draw. 

I've heard this said before as if it's fact, but I'm not seeing the logic behind it.  To be realistic, when we watch March Madness, very few folks expect that #16 seed to get to the Sweet 16 or, in many cases, even beyond the first round, yet everyone still watches and hopes and prays.  Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure there hasn't been a #16 seed in the history of the tourney that has declined to play because the odds are against them.  Yes, the #16s still had to make a "cut," but outside of FDU and UMBC, #1 vs. #16 is 150-2.  In essence, they likely weathered the play as well as #70 that didn't make the Dance cutoff would have or possibly even #100 or possibly even #120. 

All in, with a seed basically does what others are saying, makes the regular season more important, but not live or die important, while still allowing for lots of chances for the Cinderella story to happen, even if the Prince picks Cinderella for a mosh pit song.  The 10th game basically becomes a first round elimination of, as some would call them, "posers" and then moves on to the things at hand.

Incidentally, answering the question "What's the difference between Monrovia's 2022 and 2020 2-7 regular seasons?" is the reason I'm an all-in fan.  Doesn't happen often, but it's enough to make me see it as having the 10th game of the season played as a tourney game.

16 minutes ago, Frozen Tundra said:

@foxbat @HoopsCoach @superjay

Hypothetical scenario for you. If Conference Indiana ever falls apart as it has been rumored for the past few years, could you see a scenario where the Sagamore grabs the two Terre Haute schools? I know that’s a two hour drive from Lafayette but the overall travel for them would still be shorter per season in a Sagamore with the Terre Haute schools than in the NCC.

Harrison used to have THS on its non-con calendar back around 2020-2021, so it's not a foreign concept.

If I were the Sagamore though, I would hold off on grabbing the Terre Haute schools as I suspect they might have better options; especially if someone like West Lafayette joins.  With that, you'd only need a couple of other teams to make an 8-team conference, and you could almost afford to be pickier at that point.  I suspect that the NCC, which claimed it kicked Harrison and McCutcheon out due to travel and "competitive balance" will likely turn their sights on Jeff once they realize that they look just like the two folks they kicked out.  Jeff might not be too far off from being #6 or #7.  If West Lafayette joins and Jeff's a potential, I suspect the TH schools would be in the running only if the conference wanted to get to 10 teams ... which I'm not sure they would want.

1 hour ago, Frozen Tundra said:

Maybe not as big a deal for the Catholics but Mormons and hardcores like my family wouldn’t give up a Sunday for anything.

True, but we aren't overly worried about championship games on Fridays/Saturdays for our SDA and Jewish players/families?

4 minutes ago, tango said:

Rule 9-13 No Sunday Athletic Participation There shall be no interschool athletic Contests, school Practices or school sponsored Camps/ Clinics held on Sunday. Calling One (1) or more team members together on Sunday for studying scouting reports, viewing films of games, any kind of participation, etc. will be considered a violation of this rule.

 

Yeah, but these are the same guys that had four points to stay up, then two, now three ... what's one Sunday among friends?  Or the IHSAA? 🙂