NLCTigerFan07

9 minutes ago, crimsonace1 said:

I only have 4A-6A done so far, but here's the map for those who want to take their own stab at figuring out who goes where. 

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1O6J1oaoKWSgPWgPhsL7-eng1-_vqyqEr&usp=sharing

Call me crazy, but I feel like 5A North is pretty simple.

Sectional 9: Hammon Central, Hammond Morton, Merrillville, Munster
Sectional 10: Chesterton, LaPorte, Michigan City, Valparaiso
Sectional 11: Concord, Goshen, Mishawaka, SB Adams
Sectional 12: Anderson, FW Dwenger, FW North, FW Snider

5A South could have a few options:

Sectional 13: Decatur Central, Harrison (WL), McCutcheon, Plainfield
Sectional 14: Bloomington North, Bloomington South, Terre Haute North, Terre Haute South
Sectional 15: Columbus East, Franklin, Seymour, Whiteland
Sectional 16: Castle, Evansville North, Floyd Central, New Albany

Sectional 13: Harrison (WL), McCutcheon, Terre Haute North, Terre Haute South
Sectional 14: Bloomington North, Bloomington South, Decatur Central, Plainfield
Sectional 15: Columbus East, Franklin, Seymour, Whiteland
Sectional 16: Castle, Evansville North, Floyd Central, New Albany

Sectional 13: Decatur Central, Harrison (WL), McCutcheon, Plainfield
Sectional 14: Bloomington North, Bloomington South, Franklin, Whiteland
Sectional 15: Columbus East, Floyd Central, New Albany, Seymour
Sectional 16: Castle, Evansville North, Terre Haute North, Terre Haute South

Just now, jets said:

I was under the impression the SF was a 2 year cycle- but I get blasted every time I try and point out SR/Pioneer could potentially get 3 years under this decision. 

But they aren't... look above. The 2020-21 and 2021-22 seasons are getting counted into the Success Factor point totals this year. Both Pioneer and Southridge won Regionals Championships (worth 2 points) within that 2 year cycle, not 3 years.

Just now, Frozen Tundra said:

Yeah I don’t think the players and coaches that had double-byes in 6A this year would like to do that again. I feel like that would be universal across the board. Two weeks off is too long, especially when everyone else is only off for one week.

I can guarantee you Warsaw was not a fan of going 21 days between playing games, and it was obvious watching their first half of the game against Carroll.

26 minutes ago, jets said:

So Pioneer and SR are the public school sacrificial lambs in this scenario?? And from what I'm reading, Chatard and LCC get a move down? 

Ya- this whole thing makes a ton of sense. 

Bravo IHSAA, bravo

How are they sacrificial lambs? They earned 2 points in the latest 2 year cylce while being bumped up a class.... that's the rule that keeps them up a class for another cycle.

34 minutes ago, Julio said:

You have too many team in 5A.  They will not have 32 teams.

Just now, Frozen Tundra said:

The only time any class has had less than 32 teams was 6A this past fall when COVID caused teams to move down as a result of the success factor. That should never happen again. Every class should have at least 32.

Exactly - what will happen instead is Classes 1A-4A will end up less than 64 classes to adjust. Class 6A and 5A have to have a minimum of 32 classes each (outside of last year's COVID debacle)

7 minutes ago, Indiana Fan said:

There has to be a cutoff somewhere. And those are 3 different school districts correct (Homestead, Carroll, Northrop)?

Yes they are all 3 different school districts. I just think it's more likely they will send Noblesville up to the Fort Wayne schools as that happened previously. One other option I could potentially see would be this:

Sectional 1: Crown Point, Lake Central, Lafayette Jeff, Zionsville
Sectional 2: Elkhart, Penn, Portage, Warsaw
Sectional 3: Carroll, Homestead, Northrop, Noblesville
Sectional 4: Carmel, Fishers, HSE, Westfield

1 hour ago, crimsonace1 said:

With 6A, it's a matter of trying to figure out what they're going to do with Jeff & the Fort Wayne-area schools. There are 9 schools in Northern Indiana, Jeff is on an island, and then six in the Hamilton County/Zionsville cluster. The south is pretty cut-and-dried. 

1: Lake Central, Portage, Crown Point, Lafayette Jeff
2: Elkhart, Penn, Warsaw, Carroll
3. Homestead, Northrop, Westfield, Noblesville
4: Carmel, Zionsville, HSE, Fishers

OR 
1: Lake Central, Portage, Crown Point, Elkhart
2: Penn, Warsaw, Northrop, Carroll
3: Homestead, Noblesville, HSE, Fishers
4: Westfield, Zionsville, Carmel, Lafayette Jeff

5: North Central, Lawrence Central, Lawrence North, Cathedral
6: Pike, Ben Davis, Brownsburg, Avon
7: Tech, Warren Central, Southport, Perry Meridian
8: Columbus North, Jeffersonville, Center Grove, Franklin Central

I would just be completely shocked if they break up the Fort Wayne schools, but I guess it is entirely possible.

Funny observation after putting this stuff together, if Roncalli and Mt Vernon hadn't split their back to back Regional matchups, one or the other would have ended up in 5A this upcoming cycle.

33 minutes ago, Trojanmp52 said:

I see no fault in this but, are we sure that Cathedral is moving up.  

I don't see why they won't be. The meeting's minute notes clearly stated:

"Point totals from 2020-21 and the current school year (2021-22) will be used to determine Tournament Success Factor movement."

Cathedral won the 5A State Championship both of those seasons, accumulating 8 Tournament Success Factor Points. That meets the 6 point threshold to be moved up a class. The Fighting Irish will 100% be in 6A next year.

With the meeting's minute notes stating "Point totals from 2020-21 and the current school year will be used to determine Tournament Success Factor movement." I believe this is what that file would/will look like for at least 5A and 4A:

Where it's going to get tricky is for Chatard, Western Boone, and Lafayette Central Catholic. All three of those schools were bumped up THIS season for their Success Factor Points from the 2019-20 and 2020-2021 seasons. But if the IHSAA is going to use 2020-21 and 2021-22 Success Factor Points to determine what schools get bumped up this time... will those 3 schools points be from two different classes? 

Neither Chatard (4A) or Western Boone (3A) won their sectional this past season, and LCC (2A) won a sectional worth 1 point. I am thinking all three of those teams will get sent down to their previous class, unless they stay due to enrollment (which could be close for Western Boone).

Here is what I think the rest of the classes will look like:

With the enrollment numbers posted, and the statement from the meeting notes of "Point totals from 2020-21 and the current school year will be used to determine Tournament Success Factor movement." (meaning Cathedral will get bumped up to 6A) - here is my stab at 6A Sectional assignments. The biggest issue? There are 9 schools north of U.S. Route 24, so at least 3 schools will have to be brought "north" to make up at least 3 of the sectional groupings. My guess? Obviously Lafayette Jeff, but also Westfield and Noblesville.

Sectional 1: Crown Point, Lafayette Jeff, Lake Central, Portage
Sectional 2: Elkhart, Penn, Warsaw, Westfield
Sectional 3: Carroll, Homestead, Noblesville, Northrop
Sectional 4: Carmel, Fishers, Hamilton Southeastern, Zionsville

Sectional 5: Avon, Ben Davis, Brownsburg, Pike
Sectional 6: Arsenal Tech, Perry Meridian, Southport, Warren Central
Sectional 7: Cathedral, Lawrence Central, Lawrence North, North Central
Sectional 8: Center Grove, Columbus North, Franklin Central, Jeffersonville

Honestly I am not surprised it is taking this long. Personally, it is a job I would stay far away from. There's a reason Barron left and quickly moved on to John Glenn.

I mean - I guess you DON'T have to know at the beginning of the season for the fall sports, but I guess I do not think it's a big deal that the IHSAA reclassifies every two years in the late winter/early spring based on that year's enrollments. In the end, it only affects like 20-30 schools at most every year (those schools on each class threshold's).

39 minutes ago, SAC_Insider said:

Chesterton and Northrop are working on a deal from what I have heard....but it may have to wait for  2024. Rumor is that Northrop may play Wayne as Nonconference game in week 2 for 2023 then play the Chesterton the following year but Chesterton is trying to get out of a contract they have with a school from Illinois.

That was what Northrop's Ad said in conversation  

I do not believe that is accurate unless Warsaw and Chesterton are moving their matchup to Week 1 for the 2023 season. The Tigers and Trojans are slated for a home/home starting this season, and the game this year (2022) is in Week 2.

*EDIT - I may have misunderstood the post. I agree this matchup would likely have to wait until 2024 because Warsaw/Chesterton have a home and home starting this season, and I believe for both years it is scheduled for Week 2.

34 minutes ago, Trojanmp52 said:

I am not sure if I asking this right but here goes.  Why not want until the new school starts to do the reclass.  At the start at the school year all school must report their  numbers.  Then then ihsaa can reclass ever one. I fell this  way you would get more true numbers on kids at the school who could play then using  the years befores numbers where the seniors are already gone, and you get the freshmen class that is coming in to the school.  

Because you cannot wait to reclassify based on enrollment at the beginning of the school year when fall sports would need to know which class they are competiting in that season. Doing so halfway through the school year allows time for sectional groupings for ALL sports to be created prior to the next school year. It would be too much of a time crunch to figure it all out at the beginning of a school year for all sports.

18 hours ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

I have gotten through 4A, 5A and 6A based on the 21-22 DOE Enrollment Data that was posted here on the GID as well as Free/Reduced Lunch % for the high school's based on this website https://www.in.gov/doe/files/2021-school-fr-data.pdf.

Here are the schools that fit your criteria of bottom half of their class by enrollment and over 50% free/reduced lunch.

Everyone - feel free to debate if any of these schools have had "long-term success".

6A

21	Southport	2379	69.22%
22	Perry Meridian	2373	58.50%
23	Portage	2269	55.92%
24	Lawrence Central	2245	64.11%
27	Lafayette Jefferson	2153	61.71%
28	Indianapolis Arsenal Tech	2111	67.18%

5A

49	Hammond Morton	1729	53.46%
56	Mishawaka	1584	51.21%
61	Michigan City	1526	71.01%
62	Fort Wayne North Side	1513	55.72%

4A

99	Marion	1036	69.33%
105	Connersville	981	50.77%
106	Beech Grove	968	58.01%
112	Indianapolis Washington	906	63.82%
119	Western	838	51.23%
121	Mississinewa	808	53.01%
123	South Bend Washington	801	67.34%
128	South Bend Clay	778	53.60%

Just looking at it, Mishawaka (4 sectional titles in 5A since 2015), Mississinewa (3 sectional titles since 2017) and Michigan City (3 sectional titles since 2017) are the only ones who I would classify as successful. Marion had a good run with two Regional Championships in 2018 and 2020. Lafayette Jefferson has struggled in their sectionals with tough matchups usually including either Carmel or Merrillville.

Follow up to my previous post. Here are the schools that fit the @temptation criteria in 1A, 2A and 3A

3A

2A

1A

Of these schools, the only ones you could even give remote consideration to as being "long-term successful" in the last decade would be:
LaVille (2 Sectional Championships since 2017 with 4 other Sectional Championship appeareances and a 70-31 record since Coach Hostrawser took over) 
Calumet (Sectional title in 2020, winning record last 4 seasons)

You'd have STRETCH arguement for North Knox (no postseason championships, but doesn't help being in the sectionals they've been in).

50 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Per Indiana DOE information shouldn't "4A" Frankfort be on your list:  https://inview.doe.in.gov/schools/1011700997/population

Enrollment: 899   Economically disadvantaged rate:  68%

That is not the source I was using nor the metric we were using here. We were using % of Free/Reduced lunch. I provided my source previously. Frankfort High School had a 41.66% mark for Free/Reduced lunch.

Besides, doesn't really add the the discussion. They would fit right into @temptation arguement that if a school is in the bottom half of their class by enrollment, and above 50% free/reduced lunch, they likely do not see sustained success.

1 hour ago, AG said:

Pioneer has a very successful program and was, in the past ten years, in the bottom 20 of enrollment for the entire state. The enrollment is now in the top 20 for 1A. 35% of the Jr/Sr HS receives free lunches, while 98% of the elementary enrollment receives free lunches. 

31 minutes ago, temptation said:

Wow, why the large discrepancy between the two levels?

31 minutes ago, DE said:

Not yelling at you, but WHAT?

I echo these posts .... HOW can the elementary enrollements and Jr/Sr high free and reduced lunches have such a discrepancy?!?!?!

Can any Pioneer folks explain what is going on?

I have gotten through 4A, 5A and 6A based on the 21-22 DOE Enrollment Data that was posted here on the GID as well as Free/Reduced Lunch % for the high school's based on this website https://www.in.gov/doe/files/2021-school-fr-data.pdf.

Here are the schools that fit your criteria of bottom half of their class by enrollment and over 50% free/reduced lunch.

Everyone - feel free to debate if any of these schools have had "long-term success".

6A

5A

4A

Just looking at it, Mishawaka (4 sectional titles in 5A since 2015), Mississinewa (3 sectional titles since 2017) and Michigan City (3 sectional titles since 2017) are the only ones who I would classify as successful. Marion had a good run with two Regional Championships in 2018 and 2020. Lafayette Jefferson has struggled in their sectionals with tough matchups usually including either Carmel or Merrillville.

1 minute ago, foxbat said:

Have a question for you ... and I'm not trying to say/start anything.  Just interested in your opinion.  I've only recently become acquainted with Warsaw as my boys' travel baseball teams have competed in a Warsaw tournament for the past 4-5 years.  It's the one tournament that all of the Harrison travel baseball teams have attended at the same time and they call it their Raider Invasion.  From the outside looking in, I would consider Warsaw to be a program on the upswing and also successful.  At the same time, it also has a fairly decent-sized FRL percentage, around 40%, and a non-White population pushing 30% ... and I suspect that's growing.  It would also be in the lower half of 6A too with enrollment.  Would you concur, at least in your opinion, that it's successful?  To some extent, the term successful is up to all types of interpretation, but I often think that, first and foremost, the constituency would define successful as they see fit. 

Long-term success as a football program? No I would say Warsaw does not fit that criteria. A handful of conference championships over the last three decades and 1 Sectional championship in program history.

Good program? Yes. On the upswing with a lot of potential? Yes. But in the terms that @temptation is talking successful, I would say no. He's going more along the lines of what I would say consistent winning seasons with consistent deep tournament runs. At least multiple sectional titles in their respecitve class.

@temptation - what is your definition of long term success? I am putting together this list of schools now to see who even meets the qualification of lower half of ther class by enrollement and +50% free and reduced lunch? I've got the 6A and 5A schools completed so far... and FYI - there are not many that even meet this criteria, so I am betting the answer to your request of 

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Give me examples that refute my point.  Name a school that is over 50 percent free and reduced lunch and is not in the top half of its class in enrollment and has had long term success.

will not be found. I agree this is something that needs to be taken into consideration. I don't know why so many dispute you on this.

57 minutes ago, temptation said:

Noblesville and Lake Central have enormously low free and reduced percentages compared to their counterparts around the state/state average.  But you already knew that.

Instead of choosing these types of examples, try harder.  Give me examples that refute my point.  

Name a school that is over 50 percent free and reduced lunch and is not in the top half of its class in enrollment and has had long term success.

I’ll wait…

45 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Snider

Fort Wayne Snider is most definitely in the top half of 5A enrollment, so they do not fit the critera as defined by @temptation

1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

The trip was mostly likely paid for by rich Clinton County farmers, and maybe some fundraising by the cheerleaders themselves.  To my knowledge no taxpayer funds were spent on the boondoggle.  Do you have different information?

Playing Devil's advocate (my favorite) - do you have any information at all on it? You start your post with "the trip was MOST LIKELY" and include "maybe". So you are guessing just the same as anyone else here.

29 minutes ago, FlyingHigh said:

Adams Central advanced 3 football players to State - Gavin Cook (126 - 4th place finish in FTW SS), Alex Currie (152 - 2nd place finish in FTW SS) and Blake Heyerly (220 - 1st place finish in FTW SS). Looking forward to seeing these guys compete in Indianapolis for a 2nd sport this season after getting to LOS in November!

How cool is that? Best of luck to those three! Such an awesome accomplishment.

On 1/28/2022 at 8:30 PM, Frozen Tundra said: