NLCTigerFan07

I know it's early, but figured why not kick things off while I am sitting here watching college bowl games and browsing the new enrollment figures that were recently released.

It'll be interesting to see what ulitmately ends up happening, but it appears that Warsaw will move into 5A for the next cycle, and because of that, I would not be surprised if Mishawaka finally decides to drop down to 4A.

The Cavemen have requested to stay in 5A for years even though they are 4A enrollment, but I believe that was mostly strategic on their part. 5A North has rarely been a juggarnaut, specifically their sectional grouping. They may go ahead and stay in 5A, but in the past when they made that decision, Warsaw, Merrillville, and Valpariaso were not all in 5A north as well. That has changed in recent years, and it is not as if Mishawaka has killed it in the 5A tournament. 

4 Sectional titles in the last 5 years, but no Regional titles in the 6-class era. Would/could the Cavemen benefit from dropping down to 4A? NorthWood, Northridge, and New Prairie (maybe) would make for (likely) difficult Sectional opponents, but they've competed just fine against both as conference foes. No school in "The Region" would/should phase Mishawaka, which could lead to more Regional Titles, and then likely facing a team like Leo, East Noble, or Dwenger in a Semi-State wouldn't scare them either.

I would not be surprised in the slightest to see Mishawaka elect to go ahead and stay in their "true" enrollment classification of 4A this next cycle and for the foreseeable future.

12 minutes ago, BTF said:

My error, Mishawaka is 4A. They should should challenge Northwood for supremacy up north. 

I dunno - they have selected/requested to be in 5A for YEARS at this point. I'm not sure why they would want to drop to 4A now, but also, when they made the decision in the past, Merrillville, Valpariaso, and Warsaw were all in 6A the majority of that time. Now with those schools in 5A north, I think you might be right, they may look to go into 4A finally.

If Mishawaka stay in 5A... Sectionals likely look like this

Sectional 9: Hammond Central, Hammond Morton, Merrillville, Munster

Sectional 10: Chesterton, LaPorte, Michigan City, Valparaiso

Sectional 11: SB Adams, Concord, Goshen, Mishawka

Sectional 12: Kokomo, Lafayette Jefferson, McCutcheon, Warsaw

5A south could go a number of different ways, but more liekly than not would be some combinantion of these groupings, but the below PAIRS would definitely be stuck together. There are a number of ways you could piece these sectionals together.

Anderson and East Central

Decatur Central and Plainfield

Terre Haute North and South

Bloomington North and South

Evansville North and Castle

Floyd Central and New Albany

Columbus East and Seymour

Whiteland and Franklin

However, if Mishawaka goes ahead and drops to 4A, you would just move Warsaw into their spot, and FW North Side would move up to 5A and into Warsaw's spot. Or you could interchange Warsaw and FW North Side I suppose.

Sectional 9: Hammond Central, Hammond Morton, Merrillville, Munster

Sectional 10: Chesterton, LaPorte, Michigan City, Valparaiso

Sectional 11: SB Adams, Concord, Goshen, Warsaw

Sectional 12: Kokomo, Lafayette Jefferson, McCutcheon, FW North Side

2 hours ago, qbcoach13 said:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/1/viewer?mid=1tvJ-o3tt6pEhP9Vf6JfHXRZGG-vN7t0&ll=40.656812781162095%2C-86.30733850653431&z=7

Here is my 4a, 5a, 6a sectional predictions. 

You are missing FW Northrop in 6A. There are 4 Fort Wayne area schools that will be in 6A with Carroll, Homestead, Northrop and Snider.

I would put Northrop in that "black" sectional with Homestead, HSE, and Fishers and then move Noblesville to your "green" sectional that only has 3 teams on your map (Carmel, Westfield, and Zionsville)

21 hours ago, BTF said:

Jeff and Warsaw in 5A North makes the top half of the bracket ultra interesting. With Valpo, Merrillville, and Mishawaka already there, 5A North will be battle tested and ready to defend North's two year win streak against the likes of Decatur Central or East Central. 

Is Mishawaka staying in 5A? In what was shared above, they are showing Mishawka as the 4th largest school in 4A?

21 hours ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

However, there has been an article locally that quoted our coach as to looking forward to the new challenges of the NIC...

I saw that... and literally my jaw dropped. I know it's likely just coach speak and not publically saying anything to ruffle feathers, but I couldn't believe that was the actual quote.

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

So, was Elkhart a single school, then it split, then consolidated? During the time there was both Elkhart Central and Elkhart Memorial, which was the rival?

I'd assume Elkhart Central, since that is who they played in the NIC with/against all those years. This could also just be me, but I kind of always assumed Elkhart Central = Elkhart, and Elkhart Memorial = new school (even though technically they were both "new" schools)

2 hours ago, Titan32 said:

https://www.almanacsports.com/football/series.php?team1=PLYM&team2=WRSW

Looks like that link is missing everything before 1941. The link I provided includes games as far pack as 1924.

On 12/3/2023 at 4:00 PM, NLCTigerFan07 said:

I'll need to see what I can find, but I'm pretty sure Warsaw and Plymouth have played over 100 years or something like that. I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure Plymouth is the school that Warsaw has played against the most.

According to this site (which only goes through the 2015 game), the Tigers and Rockies have played every year since 1924, with the exception of 1930 where there was no game. I added the results from the last 8 seasons to the total shared on the website linked.

http://ifca.zebras.net/ifca/candler/foot-history/warsaw vs plymouth.htm

Plymouth leads the all-time series 52-50-2

They played twice a season in each of the five seasons between 1941-1945, which is why they have 104 total games but only 99 years included in the rivalry.

Pretty amazing that over that long of time with that many matchups, the rilvary is basically even.

3 hours ago, Coach Lou said:

How does a Warsaw team play their worst game of the season against what I am told is their biggest rival?

I believe I already answered your question previously just over a month ago, but I'll share it again and maybe this time it will stick.


 

Considering Warsaw has dominated that rivalry over the course of history (and prior to this year had won the last 8 meetings by a combined score of 312 - 85, an average score of 39-11) AND the Tigers were fresh off their two BIGGEST games (NorthWood and Mishawaka) - NO, I am not suprised at all that the Tigers were flat. A lot of energy went into the previous two weeks opponents, and then playing a team who was 1-5 on the season and they've crushed for as long as these kids were in elementary school. Happens to teams all the time.

And, in my opinion, Warsaw-Wawasee is a bit of a "forced" rivalry because of them sharing the same county. Plymouth has always felt more like a spirited rival to me personally, whereas Wawasee was the neighborhood friend you liked to beat in a game of one-on-one in the driveway type thing.

On 12/1/2023 at 7:06 AM, Coach Lou said:

I heard the 2nd half of the season Wawasee was much improved and even beat a 8-1 South Bend Riley team along with playing Warsaw and Northridge to 1 score losses.

I promise I'm not trying to completely discredit the Warriors here... but the Tigers played their worst game of the season that week, the majoirity of which was self-inflicted. Yes, one could argue Wawasee made some of an impact on that, but truly much of that game was Warsaw playing just downright awful, and not necessarily anything that Wawasee was doing over impressively.

I'll need to see what I can find, but I'm pretty sure Warsaw and Plymouth have played over 100 years or something like that. I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure Plymouth is the school that Warsaw has played against the most.

3 hours ago, WawaseeFan22 said:

From the enrollment numbers I have seen Warsaw appears to be dropping to 5A next year.

You must have access to numbers I haven't seen. Everything I've been told by insiders at Warsaw is their enrollment is higher now than it was during the last enrollment count. I am expecting they will still be in 6A, but again in the bottom 3 or so.

6 minutes ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

So basically, their 2016 sectional championship loss to Danville prevented them from getting at least 2 points that season to bump up the next cycle. And then their 2021 sectional championship loss Roncalli prevented them from staying up in 4A these last 2 seasons.

As well, their 2014 sectional loss to Roncalli prevented them from acquiring enough points to stay in 4A the next cylce.

Those 3 losses are all what prevented Chatard being in 4A more often over the last decade.

4 hours ago, Cappy said:

Am I wrong in thinking that they have only been moved up once and they lost to New Pal and Roncali those two years they spent in 4A

I believe that is... kinda... correct. As I said, I think they somehow managed to only acquire points in 1 of 2 years in 3A that didn't warrant them moving up.

3A - 2011 - 4 points State Champs
3A - 2012 - 4 points State Champs -> move up to 4A
4A - 2013 - 1 point Sectional Champs
4A - 2014 - Sectional loss 0 points -> move back to 3A
3A - 2015 - 4 points State Champs
3A - 2016 - Sectional loss 0 points -> stay in 3A
3A - 2017 - 1 point Sectional Champs
3A - 2018 - 2 points Regional Champs -> stay in 3A
3A - 2019 - 4 points State Champs
3A - 2020 - 4 points State Champs -> move to 4A
4A - 2021 - Sectional loss 0 points -> IHSAA did some sort of weird thing and because enrollments during Covid 2020 school year were all out of whack. So they determined any schools playing UP that acquired at least 1 point during this season would STAY. Any schools that did not earn a point were returned to their lower class
3A - 2022 - 4 points State Champs
3A - 2023 - 3 point a a minimum -> move to 4A next season

So basically, their 2016 sectional championship loss to Danville prevented them from getting at least 2 points that season to bump up the next cycle. And then their 2021 sectional championship loss Roncalli prevented them from staying up in 4A these last 2 seasons.

2 minutes ago, WestfieldRocks said:

Also out of curiosity, what's the best that Chatard has done when they were in 4A? It seems like they are there for the two year period, then drop back to 3A, where they dominate. So is there that much difference between 3A and 4A? Just asking.

It definitely feels like they've always dominated at the right years in 3A to not get bumped up as much as they should have. The best result they have had in 4A since SF has been introduced was a Sectional Championship in 2013.

Meanwhile, since that time, in 3A they have had 7 sectional championships, 6 regional championships, 5 semi-state championships, and 4 state championships (with 1 pending this weekend)

44 minutes ago, 00NWP said:

Out of curiosity...with Chatard moving up to 4A.  Will they move back to the South...or stay in the North?

Would fully depend on where everything else lands for the other schools with enrollments.

Not sure what the bottom of 5A and top of 4A looks like concerning what teams might come down/go up with enrollments. These are the schools most likely involved one way or the other as they were within around 100 students last go around

5A 60 Michigan City 1,538
5A 61 Columbus East 1,534
5A 62 FW North Side 1,513
4A 63 Kokomo 1,510
4A 64 Greenfield-Central 1,474
4A 65 Huntington North 1,442
4A 66 Muncie Central 1,437
4A 67 Northridge 1,410

The majority of those are already NORTH of Chatard, so even if a school like Kokomo goes north, they would be replaced by another north school in FW North Side, for example. Therefore, doesn't seem like any sort of "southern" influx with this group that would potentially cause a more southern school to be bumped to the north in 4A

Looking at the reverse and bottom of 4A, top of 3A, it's basically the same thing. As well, with Evansville Memorial falling back to 3A next year, Chatard basically takes their spot, so that's a South for South swap.

If anyone would be moving to 4A North from 4A South next year, there are a few schools already more "north" than Chatard that would likely get moved. Muncie Central, Lebanon, and Pendleton Heights the most likely in my opinion. I couldn't imagine a 4A where Chatard was in the North and Muncie Central in the South, but they don't have the brightest working down there off Meridian Street.

On 11/20/2023 at 9:43 PM, PantherPride said:

Taking a break from how awesome EC is, but I wanted to recognize coach Andrews and his staff for the job they have done this season.  I know that the Panthers were 1 of the favorites to reach LOS in August, but it’s been fun to see this team overcome mid season adversity and improve tremendously since September.  I realize that the Panthers have 2 of the top 5 college recruits in the state, but to get them to play as a team when 1 transferred in last winter and another was transferred out all spring and summer until a week or so before the season started. Nitro admitted in an interview he was playing for himself the first few weeks.  A team that was giving up chunk plays in the run game to Plymouth did a solid job of shutting down New Prairie and Leo’s running games. Admittedly it may not matter on Saturday but to pull this team together when they could’ve checked out after 2 straight losses given the preseason expectations coming off all that happened to the program off the field to end last season has been a tremendous job. 

Agreed with this statement. I posted in the NLC thread after the first two weeks of the season (when the Panthers were 2-0) that anything LESS than an undefeated regular season and Semi-State appearance at a minimum by NorthWood would be considered a disappointing year. Then they lost 2 straight conference games, and the wheels appeared to be falling off. The fact that they were able to keep it together and get to Indianapolis on Thanksgiving weekend is a testament to Coach Andrews and the entire staff, as well as the team coming together and the support from the community.

21 hours ago, Frozen Tundra said:

Could someone who knows NorthWood well explain to me why they lost to Northridge and Warsaw? Was there an injury that caused them to lose?

As someone else already said, that Warsaw game was something else. First, the Tigers had an excellent defense this season. They only gave up 15 offensive touchdowns all year, and 3 of those were to NorthWood in the first half of that game. The Panthers took a 21-17 lead right before halftime, but Warsaw was able to score on a 2-play drive to retake a 24-21 lead going into the locker room and stole all the momentum. In the second half, it was just mistake after mistake for NorthWood and they imploded. They ended up with 5 turnovers for the game and didn't score a point in the second half. I know it's "coach speak" sometimes to say this, but I truly believe that's what this NorthWood team needed. They needed to get punched in the mouth, buried in the ditch to find out what kind of team they needed/wanted to be. Those losses to Northridge and Warsaw were probably the best thing to ever happen to the Panthers.

I don't expect them to win, but I do believe they have an opportunity to be competitive into the second half with East Central. Go Panthers!

31 minutes ago, BSUKingsmen said:

I heard they have a heck of a soccer program now...

Serious question - do they? I know they've been atop the NLC a few times, but have they made many runs in the IHSAA tournament? Admittedly, I do not follow NLC soccer very closely, and only know when Warsaw has made a few runs in recent years.

Cheering for the Pirates Friday night and Coach Seiss. The last time he faced Fort Wayne Snider, he was a senior All-State player and Mr. Football candidate for the Warsaw Tigers. An all-time classic matchup that night at Spuller Stadium. Sectional Semi-Finals, Warsaw was 10-0, Snider was 9-1, both ranked I believe in the top 5 for class 5A. The Panthers won the game 23-20 in overtime.

Here's to hoping Coach Seiss can exercise some demons against Snider on Friday night!

2 hours ago, gonzoron said:

Why did they only get 4 points for the touchdown?

2 hours ago, ArmyVet80 said:

I believe it was 7-3 at the half. That's what the South Bend Tribune says anyways. 🤷‍♂️

Correct - it was 7-3 at halftime. Sorry for the confusion. I started writing parts of my post and got sidetracked and then went down another path and came back to it. Here's an edited, corrected version of my post.

Exactly the #1 concern when running "Bart Ball" is what happened in the 3rd quarter of the game. This was a 7-3 game at halftime, and Warsaw had a chance to make it 7-6 or even take a 13-7 lead going into halftime with a 1st and 10 at the Penn 43 yard line, but a 15-yard penalty on their final drive of the 2nd quarter thwarted that opportunity.

The start of the 3rd quarter, the compounding issues escalated things quickly.

Kingsmen oppend the 2nd half with an impressive 80 yard drive that ended in a touchdown to take a 14-3 lead. Then, later the quarter, one of the strangest touchdowns of all time. Penn punted the ball (Warsaw never touched it) and the ball never made it to the line of scrimmage. A Penn player then picked up the ball and ran it all the way into the endzone for a touchdown to make it 21-3. Apparently, a punt is a live ball for EITHER team if it doesn't get back to the line of scrimmage. Ruling was correct, just not something you see that often. After that, it was all but over. Being forced the throw the ball, an extremely unfortunate pick-6 on Warsaw's next drive all but sealed the door shut with Penn leading 28-3.

I'm not going to sit here and act like a 31-10 game was "close". However, it wasn't as bad as the final score indicated in my opinion.

Posted this in the Penn vs. Warsaw thread - but figured I'd add it here.

Exactly the #1 concern when running "Bart Ball" is what happened in the 3rd quarter of the game. This was a 10-3 game at halftime, and Warsaw had a chance to make it 10-6 or even take a 13-10 lead going into halftime with a 1st and 10 at the Penn 43 yard line, but a 15-yard penalty on their final drive of the 2nd quarter thwarted that opportunity.

The start of the 3rd quarter, the compounding issues escalated things quickly.

Kingsmen oppend the 2nd half with an impressive 80 yard drive that ended in a touchdown to take a 14-3 lead. Then, later the quarter, one of the strangest touchdowns of all time. Penn punted the ball (Warsaw never touched it) and the ball never made it to the line of scrimmage. A Penn player then picked up the ball and ran it all the way into the endzone for a touchdown to make it 21-3. Apparently, a punt is a live ball for EITHER team if it doesn't get back to the line of scrimmage. Ruling was correct, just not something you see that often. After that, it was all but over. Being forced the throw the ball, an extremely unfortunate pick-6 on Warsaw's next drive all but sealed the door shut with Penn leading 28-3.

I'm not going to sit here and act like a 31-10 game was "close". However, it wasn't as bad as the final score indicated in my opinion.

Good luck to the Kingsmen this week! They are a heck of a team, and I can only imagine the slugfest that will be their matchup against Crown Point.

On 11/3/2023 at 10:07 PM, BSUKingsmen said:

Close game......🙄

Exactly the #1 concern when running "Bart Ball" is what happened in the 3rd quarter of the game. This was a 10-3 game at halftime, and Warsaw had a chance to make it 10-6 or even take a 13-10 lead going into halftime with a 1st and 10 at the Penn 43 yard line, but a 15-yard penalty on their final drive of the 2nd quarter thwarted that opportunity.

The start of the 3rd quarter, the compounding issues escalated things quickly.

Kingsmen oppend the 2nd half with an impressive 80 yard drive that ended in a touchdown to take a 14-3 lead. Then, later the quarter, one of the strangest touchdowns of all time. Penn punted the ball (Warsaw never touched it) and the ball never made it to the line of scrimmage. A Penn player then picked up the ball and ran it all the way into the endzone for a touchdown to make it 21-3. Apparently, a punt is a live ball for EITHER team if it doesn't get back to the line of scrimmage. Ruling was correct, just not something you see that often. After that, it was all but over. Being forced the throw the ball, an extremely unfortunate pick-6 on Warsaw's next drive all but sealed the door shut with Penn leading 28-3.

I'm not going to sit here and act like a 31-10 game was "close". However, it wasn't as bad as the final score indicated in my opinion.

Good luck to the Kingsmen this week! They are a heck of a team, and I can only imagine the slugfest that will be their matchup against Crown Point.

18 minutes ago, 00NWP said:

In regard to class size in the NLC...I think in the near future Warsaw will drop to 5A and Northridge will move up to 5A.  The Middlebury area is growing fast and the opposite for Warsaw.  If that were to happen...Warsaw would make 5A North really interesting.

Which... is interesting because of how the NLC decided on the schedule change that started last year, the Week 9 opponents were selected in an effort to make sure it matched up two teams who would be less likely to face each other in back-to-back weeks as Sectional opponents.

I will be interested to see if Warsaw does actuall fall to 6A. When the last enrollment process happened two years ago, they had a few abnormally low Junior and Senior class count. Those won't be included in the next calculation, and I think from what I have heard, the classes are all above 500 students currently.

1 hour ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Do you have issues with Bart's handling of the clock in late or pressure situations?

I have no issues whatsoever with how the Warsaw coaching staff handles those situations.

1 hour ago, Bonecrusher said:

No offense (pun intended) to anyone, to each his own, but I find that style of play very boring. Playing keep away is fine if you got the D to stop the other team, which it appears Warsaw has so far, so props to them.  I remember several games when my kids were in school, where we could shut down that 3 yards and a cloud of dust scheme, next thing they know it's the middle of the 2nd quarter and that running team is down by 3-4 scores.  Hard to catch up at that point.

Good on Warsaw for being competitive with that style of O.  I just think at some point they will run into a team that can stop it, then that slow clock-eating offense works against you.

JMO, don't flame me too bad for it.

Definitely not flaming you - and I had the same thoughts myself - but I have grown to really enjoy it. It's an offense that truly all 11 players have to do their job in order for it to be effective. And the proof is in the pudding on the success Warsaw has had running it. In the 6 seasons under Coach Curtis, they have gone 48-16, won 2 conference championships (last NLC championship before that was back in 2001), their first ever sectional championship (2019) and playing in their 5th straight sectional championship game this Friday. They have averaged 30 PPG on offense over that time, and had 20 games of 40+ points scored.

It might seep boring initially, but I feel like it can grow on any fanbase. Especially when you watch it ran to perfection like it was Friday night against Carroll. It's the great equalizer in my opinion. Yes, if you get down fast and early, it makes it tricky to get back in the ball game, and has happened a handful of times for the Tigers. But the pros outweight the cons from my observation.