XStar

Not sure Oak Hill belongs in there.  They may have a decent regular season record but unless they beat Eastbrook or Mississinewa (who both beat them by 4+ TD's last season) they play mostly smaller schools who haven't been very good lately.  It's a new season though and anything can happen.  We will see how improved they are in weeks 3 and 4.

I think Marian lost quite a bit but I'd still put them at 2 or 3.  Very consistent program.  Only 3A program to really challenge Chatard recently if my memory is correct and their regular season schedule prepares them to play good teams in the playoffs.  Unless their talent level just falls off the table, I'd expect them to win their sectional and give anyone a battle after that.  

Hate this possibility.  Blind draw is fun and provides great matchups across the state every week of sectionals, not just the championship weekend.  On top of that, there is no fair way to seed it.  I hope it remains a blind draw forever.  

This can also serve as the Sectional 29 thread.

1 hour ago, gonzoron said:

You don't pay attention to those either?

Those are quite important to the Eastbrook folk.

Enjoy your retirement.  Eventually I'll go this same route with all message board and social media interaction as well.  

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

Having two schools in one state is no guarantee of mediocrity (see Michigan and MSU), nor is a single school state a guarantee of success (see Minnesota). There’s a lot more to it than that. But once again, I never said anything about Coach Allen.

And I never said that having two schools in one state is a guarantee of mediocrity or that being the only one guarantees success.  

Hey look!  I can be obtuse too if we want to play games and not discuss college football.  Very good at that actually.  

2 hours ago, Bobref said:

I never said anything about firing Allen. But more generally, all improvement comes because someone refused to accept the status quo. What obstacles prevent IU football from becoming Wisconsin? Is that an unrealistic goal?

Correct.  You gave a very general quote and left it open to interpretation.  You're more than welcome to take your quote and explain what you meant in football terms if you'd like.  Otherwise you leave it open for me to interpret it as best I can.  

In terms of accepting the status quo.....Is that what you're doing by keeping a coach?  Do coaches have ups and downs?  Good seasons followed by bad seasons?  Bad seasons followed by good ones?  I think the assumption that keeping a coach means more of the same is a faulty one.  The real question is which option is more likely to get you where you are trying to go (assuming you have realistic expectations to begin with).  I think we see football programs too often make a change just to make a change and it gets them nowhere.  For a program like IU, firing the coach is the status quo.

Even if you believe Allen isn't the guy right now, right now may not be the best time to replace him.  The best time is when you have someone that you think is better that you can actually get.  Trying to fire a coach and then see what you can come up with afterwards is how you get Darrell Hazell as your coach.  

As for IU being another Wisconsin, I don't see that as realistic.  Yeah they could always have a season or two at that level but Wisconsin is THE program in that state whereas IU and Purdue are splitting Indiana and they only generally get, at best, what's left over after Notre Dame takes what they want.  I think that is going to make it hard for either program to have the sustained success Wisconsin has seen.  

5 minutes ago, Bobref said:

“Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, 

Or what's a heaven for?”

     - Robert Browning

If IU wants to fire Allen and move on to the next Cameron or Dinardo in hopes of being annual competitors in the CFP's, have at it.  

2 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

He’s a Purdue fan hoping IU keeps Allen forever. It’s funny because I had the same thoughts about Brohm until this year. Things can change in an instant.

Maybe he sucks for the rest of his time at IU.  Maybe not.  Even if he does, he's still accomplished more at IU than probably any coach they've had since Mallory and I'm not convinced they can get anyone better any way.  Just like Brohm, one or two bad seasons is not something a program like IU or Purdue can just find unacceptable.  Neither one is a blue blood and both will be better not pretending they are.  Allen didn't forget to coach between 2020 and 2021.  He just didn't get as lucky, had more injury issues, and sounds like he made some poor hiring decisions.  I said the same things about Brohm prior to last season.  2019 was a year that injuries hit Purdue hard.  2020 was a terrible hire at DC and some bad luck (see Minnesota offensive PI call to call back the game-winning TD)....not to mention Covid.  Brohm was not a different coach than the guy who engineered the 2018 blowout of Ohio State.  But that's not going to happen every season at Purdue just like 2020 was never going to repeat every year at IU.  Given IU and Purdue's respective football histories, I think it wise for neither to pretend they are too good for the coach they currently have.  

I don't think a fair judgment can be made on Allen for at least another 6-8 years.  Give him a fair chance to build the program.  

5 hours ago, scarab527 said:

One team I’d add to the list of losers would be Marian. If Chatard had stayed in 4A, you’d have to think they’d be the favorites to get out of the north in 3A. Now it looks like they might get stone-walled at semi-state yet again. 

Not to mention that Chatard could easily be placed in the south.  They put a few teams north of Indy in the south in order to put Chatard in the north.  I guess I can see some logic in that sectional since it follows straight up 31 but you could easily draw that up in several other ways to make sense also.  

All that said, Marian could still go through Chatard to get there.  The last time they played in 2020 it was one hell of a game and they didn't play in 2021 but Brebeuf beat Chatard by 5 and Marian by 1 so I'm going to say the teams were probably on a competitive level again last season.  I think Marian will break through to the state finals in the next few years, Chatard or no Chatard.  

21 minutes ago, HHF said:

Reclassification - Winners and Losers

*****************************************

 

5. Pioneer

The Panthers drop to 1A after a few SF seasons in 2A. This is a highly successful and competitive program that probably doesn't need or want the demotion.

 

If Pioneer doesn't/didn't want to go back down to 1A, couldn't they have requested to stay in 2A?  

I agree with what you wrote.  If I were them, I'd look forward to the challenge of winning it all in 2A.  But some believe the only thing that matters is winning the ring and would rather take a 80% chance of winning something less than a 20% chance at winning something more.  I admire the way Pioneer handled their years in 2A as they competed and I didn't read much whining about it on here like you do from another public school that has recently had to play up a class.  

Mishawaka played in 4A in 2012 so they did not even opt to play up that season, let alone do so to avoid someone.  Looks like they were in 5A through 2010, 2011-2012 in 4A, 2013-2016 in 5A, 2017-2018 in 4A, and then back to 5A in 2019 and 2020.  Couldn't tell you which years they chose to play in 5A but we can rule out 2011, 2012, 2017, and 2018.  

4 hours ago, foxbat said:

If Chatard's back in 3A, don't be surprised to see the resurgence of the Sectional of Death minus Brebeuf.  That will put Guerin, Chatard, and honorary P/P, West Lafayette, in the same sectional again.

I'd be surprised.  There should be zero chance Chatard or anyone in Marion county is in the north.  

24 minutes ago, Punttheball said:

Are there 63 schools in 2A?

I think so based on the map provided here.  

9 minutes ago, Punttheball said:

This makes sense to me in the 2A North.  Sectional 33 would have 7 with a bye.

33 - Whiting, Bishop Noll, Lake Station Edison, Andrean, Wheeler, Laville, Bremen

34 - Delphi, Pioneer, Winamac, Rochester, Cass, Wabash, Manchester, Whitko

35 - Prairie Heights, Eastside, Churubusco, Central Noble, Luers, Bluffton, Eastbrook

36 - Eastern (Greentown), Tipton, Elwood, Frankton, Alexandria, Lapel, Winchester, Blackford

35 is short a team if 33 is your 7-team sectional.

1 hour ago, Football Guru 25 said:

2a alignment thoughts??

On a first look at it, this is how I'd do it. 

Andrean, Bishop Noll, Bremen, LaVille, Thomas Edison, Wheeler, Whiting

Bishop Luers, Bluffton, Central Noble, Churubusco, Eastside, Manchester, Prairie Heights, Whitko

Blackford, Eastbrook, Eastern, Lewis Cass, Pioneer, Rochester, Wabash, Winamac

Benton Central, Delphi, Greencastle, LCC, North Putnam, Seeger, South Vermillion, Southmont

Alexandria, Elwood, Lapel, Frankton, Northeastern, Tipton, Shenandoah, Winchester

Cardinal Ritter, Cascade, Christel House Manual, Eastern Hancock, Heritage Christian, Scecina, Triton Central, Union County

Brown County, Brownstown, Clarksville, Crawford County, Eastern, Mitchell, Paoli, Switzerland County

Forest Park, Linton Stockton, Mater Dei, North Knox, North Posey, Perry Central, Tell City, Sullivan 

I think 7 of the 8 make geographical sense and the other one starts with the Indianapolis teams and grabs everything that's left.  Cascade really fits better with Greencastle and North Putnam but it's the furthest East of those schools and someone needed to go towards the Indy-based sectional.  You could also swap Eastbrook and Blackford into the Fort Wayne sectional for Manchester and Whitko and it would make some sense based on the map but I thought having Whitko and Manchester in the same sectional as Prairie Heights looks a little better than Eastbrook and Blackford.  

5 hours ago, boilerfan87 said:

3A in the far south looks pretty straightforward. They are really clustered pretty well together. 

Boone Grove, Calumet, Griffith, Hanover Central, Resselaer Central, River Forest, Twin Lakes, West Lafayette

Clay, Fairfield, Jimtown, John Glenn, Knox, Lakeland, Marian, West Noble

Bellmont, Concordia, Delta, Garrett, Heritage, Norwell, Woodlan, Yorktown

Guerin Catholic, Hamilton Heights, Maconaquah, Northwestern, Oak Hill, Peru, Tippecanoe Valley, Western Boone

Crawfordsville, Danville, Monrovia, North Montgomery, Owen Valley, Speedway, Tri-West, West Vigo

Batesville, Centerville, Chatard, Franklin County, Greensburg, Indian Creek, Purdue Polytechnic, Rushville

Charlestown, Corydon, Lawrenceburg, Madison, North Harrison, Salem, Scottsburg, South Dearborn

Gibson Southern, Heritage Hills, Mt. Vernon, Pike Central, Princeton, Southridge, Vincennes Lincoln, Washington

On 4/4/2022 at 10:06 AM, BTF said:

This topic intrigued me after seeing that IU basketball was still considered a Blue Blood. A Final Four appearance in the last 20 years kept their status in tact...........until now. They've officially dropped off the charts. Who are the high school football Blue Bloods? What qualifies a team as a Blue Blood? What does a team have to do the maintain that status? The following is my perspective:

Qualifications:

One state title. Two semi-state titles. Five regional titles. Ten sectional titles. 

Maintenance: Last 15 years

One state finals appearance. Two semi-state appearances. Four sectional titles.

1A: Adams Central, Sheridan, and South Putnam.

2A: Mater Dei, Memorial, Luers, Scecina, LLC, Linton-Stockton, and Pioneer

3A: Heritage Hills, Ritter, Southridge, West Lafayette, and Western Boone.

4A: Chatard, Roncalli, Reitz, Lowell, and St. Joe

5A: Columbus East, Dwenger, Snider, Cathedral, New Pal, Valpo, and Zionsville

6A: Ben Davis, Carmel, Center Grove, Penn, Warren Central, and Westfield

Teams left out that surprised me: Avon, Hobart, Jasper, and Merrillville. 

Hobart gets back in with a sectional title any time over the next few years. Merrillville gets in with a state finals appearance, which will be more achievable at the 5A level. 

 

Are you just listing their current classification?  Some teams had success but at a lower level than where they are here. 

On 3/10/2022 at 1:24 PM, oldtimeqb said:

 

My take with the caveat that I love the 'old 24/new 32' footprint before they created the debacle that was 30 for the last 3 years.

Sectional 29 (WIC & Sagamore) - Danville, Tri-West, North Montgomery, WeBo, West Vigo, Monrovia, Indian Creek, Owen Valley

Sectional 30 (Indy and East) - Speedway, Purdue Poly (I think it's in Indy?), Guerin, Batesville, Rushville, Greensburg, Hamilton Heights + BYE

Sectional 31 (MSC, EIAC) - North Harrison, Scottsburg, Corydon, Salem, Lawrenceburg, South Dearborn, Franklin County, Madison 

Sectional 32 (PAC + VL) - Lincoln, Washington, Heritage Hills, Southridge, Pike Central, Gibson Southern, Mt Vernon Posey, Princeton

I think 31 and 32 should be pretty easy.  I assume a bye will factor in somewhere, because I don't anticipate a full 64 team field. 

If I'm looking at the right map, Charlestown is missing here and they would have to go in 31 I think.  That would probably push Franklin County into 30.  At least that's what I ended up with.  

Redone with the new map:

25 (7)- Boone Grove, Calumet, Griffith, Hanover Central, Knox, Rensselaer Central, Twin Lakes

26 (8) - Clay, Culver, Fairfield, Jimtown, John Glenn, Lakeland, Marian, Tippecanoe Valley

27 (8) - Belmont, Concordia, Garrett, Heritage, Norwell, Peru, West Noble, Woodlan

28 (8) - Crawfordsville, Hamilton Heights, Maconaquah, North Montgomery, Northwestern, Oak Hill, West Lafayette, Western Boone

29 (8) - Danville, Indian Creek, Monrovia, Owen Valley, Purdue Polytechnic, Speedway, Tri West, West Vigo

30 (8) - Batesville, Centerville, Delta, Franklin County, Greensburg, Guerin Catholic, Rushville, Yorktown

31 (8) - Charlestown, Corydon Central, Lawrenceburg, Madison, North Harrison, Salem, Scottsburg, South Dearborn

32 (8) - Gibson Southern, Heritage Hills, Lincoln, Mount Vernon, Pike Central, Princeton, Southridge, Washington

On 3/7/2022 at 6:53 AM, 1st_and_10 said:

The enrolment numbers released are not correct... Andrean & Luers won't be 3A... Mater Dei will not be based on enrolment either.

Looks like I'll have another 3am project some night I can't sleep then.  

Woke up and couldn't fall back asleep so I took a shot at the 3A sectionals based on your map.  No matter how you slice it, there's a least one bastard sectional that doesn't really fit together very well.  In this case, it's 30 that stretches both northeast and southeast from Indy.  Of course, if you switch out just a couple of schools the whole thing could be organized very differently.   

25 (8)- Andrean, Boone Grove, Calumet, Culver, Griffith, Hanover Central, Knox, Twin Lakes

26 (8) - Bremen, Clay, Fairfield, Jimtown, John Glenn, Lakeland, Marian, Tippecanoe Valley

27 (7) - Belmont, Concordia, Garrett, Heritage, Luers, West Noble, Woodlan

28 (8) - Crawfordsville, Maconaquah, North Montgomery, Northwestern, Oak Hill, Peru, West Lafayette, Western Boone

29 (8) - Danville, Indian Creek, Monrovia, Owen Valley, Purdue Polytechnic, Speedway, Tri West, West Vigo

30 (8) - Batesville, Delta, Franklin County, Greensburg, Guerin Catholic, Hamilton Heights, Rushville, Yorktown

31 (8) - Charlestown, Corydon Central, Lawrenceburg, Madison, North Harrison, Salem, Scottsburg, South Dearborn

32 (8) - Gibson Southern, Heritage Hills, Lincoln, Mater Dei, Mount Vernon, Princeton, Southridge, Washington

The bucket never comes up empty from the Southridge pity well, does it?

On 1/4/2022 at 2:19 PM, ragdoll said:

Friends went to the game. I saw later on dvr. Glad for Purdue win. Reveal in how much Karlaftis and Bell meant. unwatchable defensively. played in ff with pausing to watch most staggering lowlights. What in the world will the Boilers look like on D next year?

They were missing more starters on defense than just Karlaftis.  

18 hours ago, HHF said:

Allowing high school kids to engage in dangerous physical contact sports when they are at an extreme shorthanded disadvantage

 

Allowing high school kids to engage in a dangerous physical contact sport in any situation is a bad idea.  If that's what we're labeling football now, let's just remove it from the public schools altogether.