XStar

Probably Pioneer.  This appears to be the weak-sister sectional in the north this season.  The other 3 sectionals have at least one team ranked near or inside the top 50 in Sagarin.  Pioneer has the top rating in this sectional and it's 136.  Not expecting whoever emerges to advance past their regional game.  

2 hours ago, BTF said:

Presenting ideas to increase the overall revenue of high school athletics is never a bad idea. Shame on you.

High school athletics is not a for-profit function.  Always consider the best interest of the kids above all else.  Shame ON YOU.

3 minutes ago, BTF said:

Now, there's certain someone who'll come on here and accuse me of questioning the work ethic of certain high school football programs. It's like anything else in life and it's a lesson learned. The harder you work, the higher the performance. That's true with anything in life, sports or otherwise. There should always be a reward for performance, but the IHSAA doesn't see it that way with the blind draw. My guess is it's just "easier" to pull names out of a hat than it is to determine a seeding method. 

No.  You questioned the work ethic of high school AD's for not adopting your bad idea because you think they are simply settling for what's easiest because you can't fathom why people think this isn't the big deal you think it is.  

25 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

I just think it is a travesty for the second best team in a sectional to only get to play 10 games that season.  I have seen it too many times.  It is simply heartbreaking for those kids.  It is such an easy fix to eliminate that one issue.

And I don't think it's that big of a deal at all.  If we're not even worried about a team getting robbed out an opportunity to win sectional/regional/semistate trophies because they aren't being seeded across the entire class, then I'm certainly not concerned about a team possibly losing just an extra game or two.  At the end of the day, it's a high school sporting event.  I can think of many things more worthy of the "travesty" label than a team getting 10 games instead of 11 or 12 (which goes to other teams instead) based on preconceived notions regarding the ability of those teams before a tournament designed expressly to reflect just that.   

3 hours ago, Bobref said:

An excellent point that many gloss over. Seeding not only makes the tournament better, but it’s primary value is in making the 9 week exhibition season relevant to the playoffs. 

Depends on how the seeding is determined.  If all we get is teams trying to schedule as easily as possible because all 9-0's are better than 8-1's or 7-2's then seeding would do a disservice to the regular season.  

11 hours ago, Titan32 said:

So why do you oppose seeding number 1 and 2 on opposite sides of the bracket if you are going to go to the "good" games no matter when they are played?  I have to admit I haven't read every post in this thread.  Not being cute just trying to understand why that would even matter to you.

It doesn't change who gets the trophy and the current way allows for there to be 1 v 2 games in every round of the sectional as opposed to just the last one which I like better as a fan.  

Also let me clarify, it's not as much that I'm opposed to seeding it as I don't think there's a great way to do it and it also doesn't solve the much bigger problem when there are two top teams in the same sectional.  So we're worried about the West Lafayette and Brebeuf playing 1 or 2 weeks too early as opposed to 4-5 weeks too early.  

1 hour ago, BendNotBreak said:

So 2A south has been dominate... despite the yearly chant of how good the north is.... seems to me if u throw out Luers.... 2A is pretty much a free 4 all statewide..... i agree w foxy that Lcc will b favored in sec 37 this yr ..... but r not goin to State this yr.... as they only go to State in yrs they win it.... 😆

The reasons the south has won ............are all sitting in 3A right now...........don't like my analysis.......just look at the rankings

1 hour ago, BTF said:

Re-read my last post, think about it, and get back to me. 

 

Done.

So now you're questioning their effort rather than their intelligence?

2 minutes ago, BTF said:

I'm not questioning the intellect of anyone. I just think many are satisfied with the status quo. Why stir the pot when it's easier not to. Some even have the mindset of  "let's do what is easiest." 

So now you're questioning their effort rather than their intelligence?

11 minutes ago, BendNotBreak said:

Ehhh... not so sure... 1A in enrollment makes it tuff to reload yr after yr... prob hav to recruit better for that to happen.... but every now n then.... gotta say it was pretty cool cing 2 1A kids on the field at the PU ND game.....

Honestly I would not be surprised to see LCC win the south in their better years, at least as it currently stands.  That said, I fully expect them to get moved to the North when they re-align sectionals.  

3 hours ago, foxbat said:

I kind of like the idea of LCC being slotted in the South in 2A.  get a chance to see a new mix of potential opponents from different neighborhoods and counties in the post season.

South is the way to go in 2A.  No Luers.  No Andrean.  No Eastbrook.  No Pioneer.  No RC or Lewis Cass.  No Tipton.  No Bremen. 

What's left in the south now?  Mater Dei?  Triton Central?  Heritage Christian?  Scecina?  

Although I think the last 6 titles were won by the team from the south, I think the last 5 of those are in 3A now in Western Boone, Southridge, and Ritter.  And Monrovia has gone to 3A and come back to 2A since then.

3 hours ago, foxbat said:

I think LCC has a decent shot at a sectional tile in 2A if they continue to play the way they have the last couple of weeks.  Monrovia and Speedway will provide a couple of challenges there, but it'll be nice getting a couple of ranked or near-ranked opponents, if the ping pong balls bounce that way, early in the tourney.  Of course there's the "Be Careful What You Wish For" scenario, as I suspect the odd-on favorite coming out of Sectional 38 is going to be ranked Heritage Christian.

LCC should win that sectional in most years as it stands right now.  

3 hours ago, BTF said:

I just hope that administrators and IHSAA officials around the state are following this topic so they understand how much revenue they are costing their athletic departments. 

Perhaps they are the ones that do understand and not you?

2 hours ago, BTF said:

I promise, if those two teams played in the sectional final, all schools would have benefited from more revenue. It's important to pump money into your local athletic department, it's YOUR community after all.  It's bad enough that the casual fan would rather go watch a bunch of players wearing Colts jerseys who make millions of dollars and have no ties to the state of Indiana. Or that a fan would prefer to dump hundreds of dollars in a college game versus supporting the local kids down the street. Every dime counts. The Pioneer/Lewis Cass game would have seen an increase in attendance of 100 fans had it been played a week or two later. In a large city like Fort Wayne, the difference could be 1000. That's a lot of money for the schools, you can't deny this. 

You have zero evidence to support those claims.  Tons of other factors to consider.  What other local championship games are being played.  What the weather is like.  The programs involved.  Capacities and the ability to go and actually see the game if the stands are full and people are already lined around the fence while the game is also being aired online.  

But please tell me what it was like in 1982.  

2 hours ago, BTF said:

On a much smaller scale. I've been going to games for a long time. When the two best teams in the sectional meet for the championship, the crowd difference is largely measurable. Your argument just doesn't hold water. 

On the other hand, your argument is simply anecdotal evidence as well so I'm not sure what makes you think your argument carries any more weight than anyone else's.  I didn't just start going to high school football games in the past 5 years either.  

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

There are also people who believe the earth is flat.

And others who think it's a good idea to seed sectionals only.  

1 minute ago, jets said:

So according to your argument, just so I understand- the reluctance to seed sectionals is it really doesn’t matter if two 9-0 teams play week 1 of sectionals or for the championship?? While two 1-8 and 2-7 move on?? 

I’m sorry, but I just don’t agree with that logic that it doesn’t matter. 

You don't have to agree with it to acknowledge that there are people that think that way.  I don't agree with your logic either but I acknowledge that your position exists.  

5 minutes ago, jets said:

Again - back to the topic at hand - can anyone explain WHY the reluctance to NOT seed the sectionals?? After 3 pages on this thread, I still don't see a valid argument?? 

I gave you one.  If you don't acknowledge it, that's on you.  

1 minute ago, Bobref said:

Do you see yourself as a typical fan? How many like you are out there?

No.  I'm sure most fans are far more casual.  I still think the vast majority aren't going anywhere after whatever "their team" is drops out.  Then there are some like you described who might go see a good matchup but only if it's local and a big game.  Then there are some like me that find a good matchup to go to pretty much any weekend they can.  I don't think the numbers in the 2nd and 3rd groups move the needle much either way. 

11 minutes ago, BTF said:

You meet fans and players from different schools at the sectional championship. I met a quarterback from Carroll who was eliminated and came to watch Snider in the sectional championship. I met a couple of older gentlemen from Garrett during a sectional game between Snider and Homestead. When the sectional championship comprises of two teams with good records, big crowds are the result.

When Lewis Cass and Pioneer played in the first round of the playoffs in 2019 when they were two of the top teams in all of 2A, the stands weren't exactly empty.  

If Brebeuf and West Lafayette square off in the first round this year, I'll probably go to that game and then find another good game in other sectionals in northern Indiana in the subsequent rounds of the sectional.  In fact, having a blind draw usually generates great games in every round of the sectional instead of clustering them all in one weekend.  

Big games = big crowds no matter when they are played.  

2 hours ago, Bobref said:

One thing I used to love about sectional championships was when it worked out that two good teams were in the finals and you could see all the different schools’ letter jackets in attendance.

Still see it all the time.  Even in some matchups where one team is a big favorite.  Some people are going to find a game and go to it.  Still think those most of those people are going to find a game to be at every weekend.  It's not as if there isn't a good matchup somewhere every weekend of the playoffs.  I know that's how I've always operated.  Already this season I've seen games in the Indy area, the Kokomo area, and the South Bend area.  Going to see one near Fort Wayne in the upcoming weeks and probably one near Marion before the end of the season.  Even during the regular season, there's a good game somewhere.  In the postseason, it's even easier to find one.  

2 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

You don’t think a heavyweight match-up is inclined to draw a bigger crowd when 2/3 of the field is eliminated as opposed to when everybody is theoretically still alive? I wish I could see some data that disproves that.

Bigger?  Probably.  Significantly bigger?  Doubtful.  

5 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

People are going to gravitate towards the teams they naturally follow despite their record before anything else. I'm going to go to a Cathedral first round sectional game regardless if their 9-0 or 0-9 and I'm watching them until their season is complete. I'm sure 95% of fans are in the same boat. Fans of two bad teams just aren't going to skip out on a playoff game and watch a better game cross town. 

Most people that only follow one team aren't going to keep going to games after their team is eliminated.  Otherwise, the state championship games would easily sell out LOS.  So I'm not concerned about the 95% of fans that only follow one team.  The real question is how many fans continue to follow the tournament after their team is eliminated and, of that number, how many don't go to a game due to lack of a quality subsequent matchup.  I know many people who look at the schedule and find a game to go to no matter what.  So those people are already going to be at a game.  The number of people who want to go to a game but aren't interested in any of the games on the schedule is likely very small.  

15 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Well public interest for one. The two best teams playing in week three instead of week one when there are still six other teams playing is going to draw a ton of more regional interest. But I thought that was a given.

People are going to gravitate towards the games that are expected to be good no matter when they are played.  Actually, having a great game in one sectional in the first week would allow me to go watch another good matchup in another area sectional in a subsequent week rather than having to choose between the two sectionals when they both have their best matchup in the championship week.

3 minutes ago, tango said:

That is the way I read it.  And here's another question... Memorial was bumped up to 4A for the 2019 & 2020 cycle.  They won 4A state in 2019 (4 pts) but lost in sectional in 2020 (0 pts.), so they stay in 4A for the next cycle.  Is that cycle 2020-2021? Is that why this new provision was included in Rule 2.5 (SF) of the IHSAA By-Laws this year...?

 

In Team Sports, when Schools are subject to reclassification, a School’s reclassification shall be dependent on the School’s previous tournament series success; the Commissioner may, however, determine that a School’s previous tournament series success should be applied more often, or less often. 

 

 

Another great question.