XStar

This is the last potential roadblock Eastbrook has in clinching the CIC this season (sorry Elwood).  They came out focused last week and really handled Alexandria far easier than I thought.  A similar performance this week will have me thinking the Panthers are ready for sectionals......and more......  

Question for Pioneer fans.  Any sense on whether your team would rather be competing in the 1A or 2A tournament?  

I'd like to see Lewis Cass win just because they play a more challenging schedule and I like to see that rewarded come tournament time.  Also it's been 10 or so years since they've made noise at the state level and it's fun to see different teams get there.    

1 hour ago, 1st_and_10 said:

Webo actually has 8. 

 

 

You are right.  I missed one of them.  

1 hour ago, 1st and Goal said:

 Zionsville used to be on the Sagamore Conference, Correct?

I don't believe so.  Here was my reference.  

http://sagamoreconference.com/history/

5 minutes ago, 1st_and_10 said:

Carmel

Yep.  I bet most people under the age of 50 didn't know the Sagamore Conference originally included Carmel, Noblesville, and Brownsburg (along with Crawfordsville, Lebanon, and Frankfort).  I know I didn't.  Carmel only shared the Sagamore title once before leaving which makes them the least decorated Sagamore Conference football program of all time.  I'm sure that really stings!

Anyway, I looked all this stuff up because I didn't know which team(s) historically had the most football championship.  I could have miscounted but here's how the teams stack up all time (through 2018):

1.  Danville (1999-present, 20 seasons) - 8 championships.  5 outright and 3 shared.

2.  Noblesville (1967-1980, 14 seasons) - 7 championships.  6 outright and 1 shared.

2 (t). Crawfordsville (1967-present, 52 seasons) - 7 championships.  6 outright and 1 shared.

2 (t). Tri-West (1999-present, 20 seasons) - 7 championships.  5 outright and 2 shared.

2 (t). Western Boone (1982-present, 37 seasons) - 7 championships.  5 outright and 2 shared.

3.  North Montgomery (1975-present, 44 seasons) - 6 championships.  4 outright and 2 shared.

3 (t). Lebanon (1967-present, 52 seasons) - 6 championships.  4 outright and 2 shared.

4.  Brownsburg (1967-1985, 19 seasons) - 5 championships.  4 outright and 1 shared.

5.  Frankfort (1967-present, 52 seasons) - 4 championships.  4 shared.

6.  Southmont (1985-present, 34 seasons) - 3 championships.  3 outright.

7.  Carmel (1967-1974, 8 seasons) - 1 championship.  1 shared.  

57 minutes ago, triple option said:

No idea on the first question...

Southmont has never shared it.

This is correct.  The last member of the conference to win a football title in 2009, they ended up winning it outright in 3 consecutive years (2009-2011).

1 hour ago, 1st_and_10 said:

 

I'll bite.... Frankfort and Lebanon-- Never won it outright...   North Montgomery has never shared it.

Complete guesses on my part.

 

Frankfort is right.  I show them having 4 shared titles but none outright.  Lebanon has actually won the title outright 4 times and shared it another 2 times.  The other half of this answer is a perennial state power that was part of the conference originally but has not been in many decades.  They left with only 1 share of the title which technically makes them the least successful Sagamore Conference football team ever haha.  

The team that has never shared the title is a current member and has won it exactly 3 times.  

Looks like Tri-West fans get to cheer for Danville for a change.  

Since this thread is kind of dead this year, I'll give a little Sagamore Conference trivia that I found interesting.

I believe every team in the history of the Sagamore Conference has won the football crown at least once.  However, 2 schools have never won it outright.  Can you name them?  

Also, every team in conference history has shared the title at least once except one.  All of their titles have been outright.  Can you name which one?

Anyone who knows this without looking it up has my sincere respect.  

On 10/2/2019 at 5:32 AM, panther10 said:

its a little boring knowing that Eastbrook has pretty much wrapped up the CIC title. Even though at the begging of the season @Scottish_Warrior had Eastbrook finishing 4th (smdh). I guess this is one of the games he thought Eastbrook would lose.

I wouldn't hand it to them just yet.  They are in the driver's seat but I don't think they are so good that they can afford to look past Alexandria or Blackford.  If they play poorly against either one, they could easily lose.  

The way I see it, they will either stay focused, take care of business, and shove it in the face of those like @Scottish_Warrior OR

they'll take their eye off the prize, drop one they shouldn't, and more or less prove him right.  

This team may not be as talented as last year, but they can accomplish some things last year's team didn't.  First they beat their rivals Mississinewa.  Now they can win the conference.  If they can win their last 3 to accomplish that, the seniors go into the tournament with a chance to match or exceed last year's seniors for most wins over 4 years.  Plenty still in reach for this team to accomplish.  

18 hours ago, Kingfan__56 said:

I know I’m a bit biased but how is nobody talking about Cass in 2A? I have yet to see anybody mention them to rep the North. I see people mention Pioneer (who already lost to Cass) and Western Boone (who lost to a Western team Cass just beat). Like I said, I know I’m biased but they have got talent all over the field, and are currently undefeated but nobody mentions them.

Aren't they #1 in both polls?

1 hour ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

Going back 20 years , Really ? here are some scores from 2000 to present

35-7 , 38-0 , 54-14 , 50-0 , 51-0 , 47-14 , 48-14 , 28-7 , 39-0 , 28-0 , 17-0 , 17-7 , 31-14 , 21-7 , 28-7 , 48-7 . That's 16 games that were not competitive . 

Well I left such a large gap when I said 10-20 years because I was speaking off the cuff and didn't think it necessary to sit down and look at the year-by-year results to make my point.  

First I'd say that margins of 21 points or less don't really indicate a blowout.  Are you really saying a 17-7 game can't be competitive?  So I'd say even over the range you specified that there are 10 games I'd classify as blowouts, or at least not competitive.  When Mishawaka beat you 26-10 did you consider that to be a blowout?  I sure didn't.  

But let's look at that in more detail.  First, eliminate the Geesman years.  He was a great coach and dominated Mishawaka and actually won state titles.  Not going to argue with him.

I believe Yeoman is 16-5 against Mishawaka.  Of those 16 wins, I think 5 have been blowouts.  He's won by 33, 35, 39, 28,  and 41.  The funny thing is, 4 of those happened in 2007 or prior.   So that's been one Penn blowout of more than 21 points in the past 11 seasons.

Now let's narrow it down to after Bart Curtis took over Mishawaka in 2008 and made it respectable.  Since that time, Penn is only 9-5 against Mishawaka with only 1 game out of 14 whose final margin was 21 points or more in favor of Penn.  

Certainly you can conclude that Penn has had the upper hand in the series but it's not hard to see that it's dominance in the series has faded, mostly since Geesman retired.

So my apologies for leaving such a large gap in my initial statement.  I'll be more specific and say over the past 11 years there's probably only been the 1 game between the two that I would consider a blowout.  The rest have been reasonably competitive.  I doubt there's anyone who has been more competitive on their schedule over that same stretch and I sure don't believe LaPorte will be.  

5 hours ago, Indian72 said:

From a gate stand point Penn-Mishawaka is much attractive then Penn - Laporte.

Does the fact Laporte coach played for Penn enter into the equation?

I'm going to guess that the game has historically been the top gate for both schools over time and especially for NIC teams.   

3 hours ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

Penn gets more from losing to elite programs than beating NIC competition . Losing to ST X and Flossmor helps them prepare for the playoffs . Penn wont do anything this year , but in most years it would . There aren't to many Indiana teams that would consistently beat those 2 . 

The Penn-Mishawaka games have been pretty competitive over the past 10-20 years I've lived in this area.  Penn has won more than they've lost for sure, as they should with being the biggest school in the area.  But Mishawaka has won a handful and I've seen a number of others that Mishawaka lost that still meets the criteria of "competitive".  By that standard, Penn hasn't been competitive with the "elite" competition they scheduled for this season.  

If their goal is to have a full schedule of games more competitive than the Mishawaka game, they'd be wise to change conferences because Mishawaka has been the only team in the conference to beat them in how many years?  40 or so?

On 9/23/2019 at 10:24 PM, TacklingFuel_10 said:

Another example is Pioneer having a higher ranking than Cass in their Sectional. Definitely has many flaws to it.

It's not perfect but is there a more objective way that has no flaws.

Personally, though, I'm fine with not seeding sectionals.  

Who did NP think they had lined up?  Can't be many programs that would even consider the notion of adding such a road game a week in advance.  

I know this has been touched on here and there before but here's a bit more on it.  

For the life of me, I can't figure out why both sides wouldn't want to continue playing this game.  This article from Mishawaka's website sounds like them saying, "Don't look at us!" for the reason this game isn't being played for at least the next 4 years.

https://cavemensports.com/2019/09/24/this-is-it-mishawaka-penn-football-series-ending-after-this-year/?fbclid=IwAR0yKDt2wwlExII2WrznZWnhjUQUFEEdFigDYCdriRYMLVfMBrzuo1jZXIE

Rivalries are a regional thing and I've only lived in a few different areas of Indiana in my lifetime but for my money this is the best rivalry I've had the pleasure to witness.  I feel bad kids in both programs currently in grades 7-10 because most all of them will go through their varsity football careers without having the opportunity to play against their rivals from 3 miles down the road.  

How do you guys determine your matchups for the last week?

3 hours ago, olinecoach said:

It looks like Cass is a big threat in the North. Return a lot from the team last year that took Eastbrook down to the wire in the post season and have 2 or 3 quality wins already this year starting 4-0

They are absolutely a contender.  But they have a strong challenge within their own sectional.  Wouldn't be surprised to see them in the state finals but also wouldn't be surprised to see Pioneer avenge their opening week loss and win that sectional.  

I'm not going to say much about Ole Miss.  I wasn't at the game last night so I haven't even seen them play this year.  I hope they are legit because that will make this win by Eastbrook look better as the season/postseason progresses.  

I will say this regarding 2A.  None of the usual suspects have really stepped up and shown themselves to be a juggernaut so far.  The programs coming in from other classes like Luers, Andrean, and Pioneer have all already lost games I didn't think they would.  Last year's champ dropped a game in which they allowed 40+ points after not allowing more than 20 in a game last year.  This thing feels WIDE open to me, particularly in the North.  

Eastbrook reaping the rewards for their schedule.  No doubt in my mind the Marion/Delta games toughened this young group up and put them in a position tonight they probably would not have been in if they had not challenged themselves early.  Congrats to the players on this win.  Very impressed.  

Did Penn pull a new QB from Marian after Powlus was injured?

Without Mishawaka, there is absolutely no reason for Penn to be in the NIC.  That's my 2 cents.  I don't know what the optimal solution is though.  I just think it's dumb that the two rivals will soon not be playing one another on the gridiron annually.  

Can anyone explain the MD Whiting matchup?  

17 hours ago, Scottish_Warrior said:

Eastbrook likely ends up fourth in the CIC behind ole miss, Alexandria, and Blackford however if MG can add some passing to get ALL their skilled players involved they could possibly sneak into that fourth spot. We shall see how it plays out. Coach T. I’m riding with you so make it happen. #All_IN

🙄

I wouldn't go handing out the CIC trophy just yet. 

Much being read into 2 games against Marion and Pendleton Heights here.  Here's my two cents.

I was at the Marion-Eastbrook game.  To me, Marion looked like they are every bit of a top-five 4A squad.  I knew this would be a tough game for Eastbrook given the turnover they experienced from last season's state finalist squad but I was fairly impressed with how they held up given the circumstances.  They could go back to the 2A state championship game this year and not see any team with the amount of speed they saw at Marion.  Yet they hung in throughout the first half, and rallied a bit late in the game after a couple of big defensive breakdowns had given Marion control of the game.  One thing that impressed me was that they played the whole game without having a penalty enforced against them (only one called that ended up being declined if memory serves).  Coming into the game with so many players participating in their first varsity start against a top team in a larger class, I figured I would see laundry early and often all over the field.  That was not the case.  Eastbrook did struggle with Marion's speed on both sides of the ball.  On offense, the Panthers were able to move the ball on the ground but could not break away for a big play all night.  Their running game seemed to get a few yards a carry but there weren't any big runs of the 20+ yard variety, or perhaps even of the 10+ yard variety.  There were a couple of pass plays that were open and they just missed which could've changed the game if they had been able to hit them.  On defense, Eastbrook competed well most of the game but you have to give Marion credit.  They are very tough to defend.  Eastbrook started some young linebackers who found themselves out of position on a couple of plays that ended up as long Marion touchdowns.  Those plays are learning experiences for young players.  In another game, they probably cost them first downs instead of touchdowns.  Marion had the speed to exploit those to their fullest.  Either way, if the linebackers learn from those plays, and I'm betting it's been pointed out to them in the film room, that makes them a better team the rest of the season.

As for the Pendleton Heights game, I did not get the benefit of seeing it.  However, I do have family in that school and they told me that Pendleton lost most of their top players from last season and did not figure they would be very good this season.  They were fairly surprised the first game was as close as it was.   I'm familiar with Coach Richman and I'm sure he'll get the most out of what he has but it doesn't look like a squad that is going to finish anywhere near the top 10 in their class.  That said, a win is a win and the Indians beat the first team on their schedule.  It's the first data-point of the season and we'll see more about what it means as the season progresses.  They are certainly big up front and should be very difficult for anyone to slow down on the ground but if they run into a team that can physically match them at the line of scrimmage or enough speed to get to the ball and gang tackle at the line of scrimmage, it could make things pretty interesting.  

Still a few weeks away from these two meeting on the field.  I think Eastbrook learns alot about itself this week against Delta.  Mississinewa looks to have an easy task on hand with a down New Haven program.