23andCounting

I only saw the comment though Temp's post. I put that clown on ignore. He's just trying to push buttons. Would love to see Carroll vs New Pal, but would never happen. Carroll is the 19th largest school in the state, hence the stupid 5A comment. Don't take the bait.

Honestly, I don't see much gap in speed and athleticism between a school of 2000 and one of 3500. The big difference is the size of the kids on the offensive line, especially home grown kids in the suburbs. Winning 6A starts with the offensive line, the rest will follow. A good offensive = impressive QB, WR, and RB stats. I think a team like Brownsburg punishes you with coaching and precision. When they take the field, they don't look much different than 10 other teams in my opinion. Same with Center Grove. The execution is top notch.

Sagarin's Top 12. Look who is #12. 1 Ohio State A = 97.09 11 0 72.14( 46) 0 0 | 3 0 | 94.84 1 | 98.45 1 | 101.11 1 | 107.30 1 BIG TEN (A) 2 Notre Dame A = 95.29 9 2 74.21( 27) 0 2 | 2 2 | 94.17 2 | 94.80 3 | 99.55 2 | 104.58 2 I-A IND. (A) 3 Oregon A = 94.12 10 1 74.63( 24) 0 1 | 3 1 | 93.15 3 | 95.05 2 | 96.33 4 | 98.16 5 BIG TEN (A) 4 Indiana A = 93.64 11 0 71.58( 49) 1 0 | 3 0 | 92.18 4 | 94.31 4 | 96.69 3 | 104.50 3 BIG TEN (A) 5 Georgia A = 90.92 10 1 75.80( 16) 1 1 | 4 1 | 89.07 6 | 93.38 6 | 92.50 6 | 93.70 7 SEC (A) 6 Texas A&M A = 90.26 11 0 75.36( 19) 1 0 | 5 0 | 88.48 7 | 93.90 5 | 90.84 8 | 91.86 11 SEC (A) 7 Alabama A = 90.14 9 2 78.64( 6) 1 0 | 6 1 | 90.16 5 | 91.61 7 | 90.36 9 | 91.19 13 SEC (A) 8 Texas Tech A = 89.70 10 1 66.50( 71) 0 0 | 2 0 | 87.80 10 | 89.31 10 | 94.36 5 | 102.03 4 BIG 12 (A) 9 Miami-Florida A = 88.90 9 2 72.79( 38) 1 0 | 1 1 | 88.39 8 | 89.51 9 | 90.27 10 | 92.82 9 ACC (A) 10 Mississippi A = 87.50 10 1 73.41( 34) 0 1 | 3 1 | 86.48 11 | 89.77 8 | 87.79 15 | 89.44 16 SEC (A) College Football 2025 ratings through games of 2025 November 22 Saturday - Week 13 RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 10 | VS top 30 | PREDICTOR | GOLDEN_MEAN | RECENT | STRONG RECENT HOME ADVANTAGE=[ 3.43] [ 3.23] [ 3.45] [ 3.60] [ 3.60] 11 Oklahoma A = 87.24 9 2 78.17( 7) 1 1 | 6 2 | 86.16 13 | 87.53 12 | 89.41 13 | 92.51 10 SEC (A) 12 Penn State A = 87.07 5 6 73.76( 31) 0 3 | 0 4

Haven't seen much of Brownsburg, presuming they beat you down with their offensive line? From what I've seen, that's what Westfield is good at. Carroll had to play a flawless game to beat Westfield, and they didn't. Not many teams do. I'd agree that Carroll would have their hands full with Brownsburg. Same scenario. Play lights out, nearly error free, and maybe have a chance.

You won't be ducking from me as you're 100% spot on. Kudos for being the first to bring this topic to our attention. It took me about 6 months to process, but I'm fully on board. I'd also point out that the best coaches are probably drawn to the large suburban schools first, then programs like Warren Central and Ben Davis second. That pretty much leaves schools like Northrop to hope to find that diamond in the rough.

Fishers at 3800 vs Northrop at 2200 isn't an outlier?

At some point 6A is going to have to go to 16 teams. The gap between the top and the bottom basically says, "sorry, you smaller schools are only here to add to our trophy cases."

1. "Show me." Five good wins since then. 2. Carroll is growing as well. 3. Agree. 4. If they improve, it will matter. You don't think Westfield and Brownsburg have hit their ceiling? We know Carmel hasn't, but who knows how long Wright will stay put.

I agree that most of the teams on my list were eliminated midway through the season, but even if a team has a 1% chance in Week 1, I think they are worth a mention. I'm not convinced on your "one off" theory. I think you'll see Carroll, Crown Point, or Penn back down at Lucas sooner than later. The gap has closed. Maybe it will take a small downtick in talent at Carmel and Westfield. I think the biggest threat to the North at this point is Kevin Wright and Carmel. Hard not to find a massive offensive line, which is what it takes in 6A, at an enrollment school like Carmel. In fact, the more I think about, maybe the forementioned schools won't get there sooner than later. Wright is going to build a machine at Carmel.

1. That is correct, but at the beginning of the season, they were probably in the 2-5% range. 2. Yet they've both been to the state title game in the past four years after beating the best team in the best conference. 3. I gave DC maybe a 1-2% chance of winning state, hence being in the conversation. 4. Ben Davis is Ben Davis. Five percent at the beginning of the season. Worth having a conversation about. You prefer to only discuss the teams that are favored to win, where I prefer to discuss any team that has a remote shot. We can do it your way if you want, I'll just refrain from having any opinion on 6A for the 2026 season. I want to remind the forum that back in 2021, you said "show me" in reference to the North winning some games in against the south. Crown Point toppled Westfield in 2023, best team in the best conference. Carroll beat HSE in 2022, best team in the best conference. Both Carroll and Snider beat Warren Central in 2023, a Warrior club that was HIGHLY touted by the Indianapolis media during preseason, only to start 0-2 against Fort Wayne. Then Snider easily handled DC in the state title game. But this really isn't about Snider, they've been beating Indy teams for years. Kind of hard to deny the emergence of Carroll and Crown Point though with "not ready" comments.

I guess I don't see why Brownsburg, Westfield, Carmel, Lawrence North, Fishers, Center Grove, Carroll, Decatur Central, Crown Point, HSE, Warren Central, and Ben Davis wouldn't all be part of the conversation. It's either that or just Brownsburg and everyone else. Regarding next year, I've got 360 days to rebuttal your claim.

So at the beginning of the season schools like Ben Davis, Fishers, Hamilton Southeastern, and Crown Point weren't even in the conversation? I think any team with more than a 1% chance of winning should be in the conversation, probably includes Warren Central.

Do I really have to research this right now? Sure, let's say 1/3. Quit beating around the bush, what are you getting at?

6A: Westfield Avenges Regular Season Loss, First 6A Title 5A: Merrillville Shocks Everyone, Takes Down New Pal 4A: Saints Go Marching on in Shutout Win over Roncalli 3A: Luers Wins First 3A Title 2A: Andrean Beats Brownstown, Claims 4th State Title 1A: Pioneer Does it Again!

Of course, that's your school.

Yes. Easy catch for the DB, landed right into the bread basket after slipping through the wet receiver's hands on a high throw. Look, you guys brag about Central Indiana and rub into our faces how bad the North is every year. So what if I point out that a few errors made by Carroll cost them a potential 28-7 lead. Who cares, you guys won..........again. No one in Central Indiana wants parity. Total domination in 6A is what you want, and you've got it. Congrats. "Great season"......"celebrate," bla bla bla. No one wants that moral victory bull crap.

Just watched the replay. Definitely a fumble. Receiver was taken down from behind. Defender wrapped him, right arm swung around and could have been an intentional attempt to dislodge the ball. Either way, good play for Westfield and probably the turning point of the game. Instead of Carroll being 25 yards from going up 21-7 (likely the way they were moving the ball in the first half), the Rocks go down and tie it with 17 seconds remaining.

It's just ugly if you ask me. Gross negligence on the part of the IHSAA.

Thanks.

Your smart, you know that rain favors the team running the ball, not the passing team. C'mon man. Congrats to Westfield. Carroll put up a fight, but the better team won that night.

That wasn't an easy catch to haul in with wet hands, you know that. I did feel that Carroll "gave up" the fumble at the 20 yard line. I felt he could have done a better job protecting it. On live TV, there was actually some question as to whether or not it was even a fumble, but they didn't really dive into replays to investigate it. All I know is that Carroll utterly sliced through Westfield like butter in the first half. Had it not been for the two turnovers, neither forced in my opinion, Carroll ends the half with 28 points. I really don't care if you take me serious or not. I love that I can come on here and say what I really feel without having to worry about "coach speak." In the end, I felt that Westfield was the better team. I'm just pointing out that it was IMPERITIVE that Carroll go into halftime with the lead. They came out no huddle, moved the ball at will for two quarters. I just didn't see them sustaining that pace the entire game. Had they avoided the turnovers, they could have went into halftime with a 28-7 lead. Sorry that bothers you.

Great post. Thanks for your unbiased input. I only disagree with what I highlighted in bold. That's an opinion, not fact. Though there's a 88% chance that you're correct.

In the conversation? I think so. As the season went on, I got the feeling they were better than what they were in Week 2. I think Penn and Crown Point were in the conversation as well............big schools, good tradition, and undefeated. Not sure why they wouldn't be. We all knew all season long that the favorites were Brownsburg and Carmel. Maybe you should have asked, "were they a favorite to win." That would be a "no."

"364 more days of delusion, excuse making and claims that the true north is “knocking on the door.” Day 364: See Semi-State Scores thread Day 363: Carroll returns their QB, and a good one at that. Give Dinan a good QB and they'll always be in the state title conversation. Day 362: Something tells me that Pete Riordan is just getting started. If his program improves for the third year in a row, they'll give the HCC a run for their money on the way to Lucas. Day 361: Crown Point. Craig Buzea. Nothing more to say. @temptation The North is on solid ground. I can do this 360 more times if you'd like.

Turnovers happened. Westfield won the turnover battle 4-0. I'd say the two second half turnovers were a result of Westfeild's pressure on the QB. Kudos to them. And we knew the second half would be won by the Rocks, it's just the way they are build, solid run game, massive offensive line. Which is why it was really important for Carroll to take a 28-7 lead into halftime. Tied 7-7, the wet ball that slipped through the Charger receiver's hands into a Westfield DB at the Rock's 45 yard line didn't help matters. Then, up 14-7, on their way to an apparent 14 point lead, Carroll gives up a fumble at the Westfield 20 yard line. The rest is history. Westfield ties the game with 17 seconds left until halftime and receives to open the second half. At that point I knew Carroll was in trouble. I'm sure Penn fans can relate. They had their opportunity to put Carroll away, then that fumble at the 4 yard line late in the third happened. Many won't like my assessment, but when someone asks, I gotta tell it like a see it.