psaboy

Could go to Ball State and be all MAC for 3-4 years?? If that good, would dominate, maybe?

2 hours ago, DT said:

Here is a scenario that you should consider.  This is realistic and happens every year in every state to some degree.

Lets say Class 3A West Lafayette plays host to a visiting 2A or 3A school  with a long tradition of losing football.  Let's also say that WL dresses 60 players for the game, including 3 or 4 Division 1 athletes, one who is considered one of the highest ranked college recruits in state history.

Assume that the visiting team arrives at WL on a small bus with 16 players.  Most of those players are underclassmen as no seniors stuck around for a 4 year varsity career due to the continued beatdowns they experienced as underclassmen.  6 freshman.  6 sophomores and 4 juniors.  And a 3 man coaching staff.  

WL wins the game 84-7, sitting most of their starters midway thru the 3rd quarter.    3 players from the losing team are taken off the field on stretchers due to significant injuries.  Compound leg fracture.  Neck injury.  Concussion.

WL offensive line averages 285 pounds.  Visitors defensive line averages 175.

Visitors cancel their next 2 games to try and recover from injuries and recruit additional students to fill out a roster and have enough players to hold a practice.

This scenario plays out time and time and time again, throughout Indiana and across the country.  As participation numbers decline, the schools that take their football seriously get stronger, and the schools that play out of obligation get weaker.

Contraction is a better option than consistently going 0-10 , losing by 60 points a game every Friday night, and seeing kids physically overmatched to the point where serious injury is a regular weekly concern.

As a parent  I take my kid out of harms way, blaming the school for failing to create a safe, positive environment for my child to enjoy a satisfying and beneficial high school extracurricular activity.  I sometimes wonder why an AD would allow this type of scenario to continue unchecked.  Its borderline criminal putting kids into this type of situation.

Anybody who tells you that this is a good learning experience and builds character for those kids on the losing end of that 84-7 debacle should experience just what that might be like for one Friday night.

 

How many 2A or 3A teams do you know of that have only 16 players, or for that matter less than 20?

4 minutes ago, MarshallCounty said:

Bad Football is better than no football.

Ha, I was almost going to state that when two bad teams play each other, it sometime turns out to be a good game

7 minutes ago, DanteEstonia said:

It's sufficient to field a team.

Probably not a very good one though, a few injuries and you are in trouble.

On 4/18/2019 at 1:23 PM, DT said:

4. Im glad to see that The SAC has dropped its full round robin and is opening up to non non competition.  Snider, Dwenger, Luers, Homestead are statewide brand names and will benefit from increased exposure.

When did this happen? Hadn't seen anything on this from FWA area or the SAC. Please provide source. 

5 hours ago, DT said:

Id like to see the contraction wave pick up steam and aggressively start the march towards 280 Indiana high schools playing varsity football.

 

What's your fascination or desire on contraction all about???

Less penalties for the Mighty Panthers of Snider.  

I believe Warren Central needs to team to play on week 9.

23 hours ago, roscoeguy said:

Penn 1-3 after first 4 games this year?

I don't see them losing to Valpo or LaPorte, they may give Homewood a run as well. Saint X is a likely L. so probably 2-2 or possibly 3-1 IMO

4 hours ago, Trojanmp52 said:

Here is a question for you all is Mr Football a career award or is it a best senior year award

Good question, not sure.

1 hour ago, BTF said:

I don't think they mean much either.........................until November. By then, I think the Sagarin has a pretty good handle on things. Honestly, I think they would be more accurate if they calculated the score after 3 periods instead of the entire game. Some teams keep their starters in the whole game even when it's a blowout. Others pull their starters after the 3rd.

Student body in the 80's and 90's consisted of 2100-2200 kids. Nowadays it's around 1700-1800. So yes, I do agree that it is a bit more challenging. Also, many white collar families have moved out of the Snider district and into Carroll and Homestead over the past couple of decades. That makes a difference too.

How far back are you going? I'm certain Snider and Penn have played over 20 games.

Your points on Sagarin are good, I also don't like that all SAC teams play all in conference games, so that may limit their "upward" mobility?? I was going to point the school sizes out in my previous points, I think that has a lot to do with them. 15-20 years ago, Snider's gap in attendance was not as big compared to Penn and Carmel.

The records are all time records from the Snider Football web site.

21 hours ago, BTF said:

I doubt you'll get anyone from Indianapolis who'll say "we don't wanna play Snider because it won't be a competitive game." Ben Davis, Carmel, Warren Central, ect. Snider's played them all. Two seasons ago Snider had Carmel down 14 points late in the 3rd and pinned at there own 10 yard line. Then a roughing the punter was called and that pretty much changed the dynamic of the game. Carmel won 22-21. Carmel is 7-0 against Snider in games decided by 3 points or less. So yes, most of the time it's a competitive game. I remember a couple of blowouts that Snider handed to Carmel. When Carmel win's big, it's always by 2 or 3 touchdowns, but no more.

Penn has won 3 of the last 4.  Overall, I think Penn holds a one or two game advantage in 20+ meetings.

All I'm trying to say is the Snider is not as competitive against Carmel and Penn as they used to be. They are 8-9 all time vs Penn and 4-9 vs Carmel. I remember the game two years ago against Carmel when Snider went into thug mode with a few personal foul flags that shifted the game. Yes, they were competitive in that game, probably the better team, but they lost. Snider has "blown" out Carmel twice, Carmel has three W's of 17 or more points. I count 6 games that Carmel has won vs Snider by 3 or less. 

3 hours ago, Trojanmp52 said:

But you have to remember that  5a  and 6a have less teams so I say it would favor the Lower class

OK, then the 1A thru 4A head coach vote is then worth 1/2 a point. That will settle that. 

21 hours ago, BTF said:

Disagree 100%.

Out of 37 teams in 5a, Snider will be top 5 most years, top 10 every year. In 6a, they are top 15 every year, and top 5 some years. The better fit is 6a. Case in point.............Sagarin had Snider at #11 to finish last season and that was just an AVERAGE Snider team...... at best. The gap between the good and the bad in 6a is sickening. Losing Snider doesn't do 6a any favors from a competitive standpoint.

The season before last, Snider had Carmel down 2 touchdowns before self destructing late in the game and losing by 1. Snider beat Penn in 2012 (7 years ago), lost in 2013 & 2014, and IMO, would have beaten them in 2015. Last year, Sagarin had Snider at #11, Penn at #17.

I may be a bit of old school, but the playoffs aren't the playoffs if Snider's not butting heads with either Carmel or Penn.

 

Snider is 2-5 against Carmel in past 15 years and 2-5 vs Penn. So IMO that is not very competitive. If they had a record that was closer to .500, I would then say they are or were competitive. Believe me, I love it when they face those two teams,  but they are likely to lose more than they are likely to win in those matchups. Sagarin ratings are just that, a rating, doesn't really mean much.

On 3/27/2019 at 12:41 PM, Staxawax said:

The Indiana Football Coaches Association voted at its board meeting Friday to allow all members – coaches and assistant coaches – to have a Mr. Football vote. Previously, an IFCA ratings board of 60 -- 10 coaches in each of the six classes --voted for Mr. Football.

That certainly favors (Most) 5A & 6A schools. I would think they have 50% to 100% more coaches and assistants than 1, 2, 3 and probably 4A. I would think each head coach of each school getting a vote would be best??

On 4/2/2019 at 10:16 AM, BTF said:

No one is denying just how good New Pal and Snider have been these last few years....and I certainly don't forget how many years Snider provided Carmel their toughest playoff game on the way to LOS. 

That was back 15-20 years ago. Nowadays I just don't think Snider can compete year in and year out vs Carmel or Penn for that matter. The best fit, IMO is 5A for Snider.

I think the best scenario is covered in other post you started on 3-10.

30 minutes ago, CaptainHook said:

New Pal has several big holes to fill at QB, center, and LB.  The do return 3 starting OL, 3 WR, 2 DL, 1 LB, their entire secondary, and 1 RB.

What does Snider/Dwenger have returning?

Snider has QB returning (Barnes), experienced RB (Bennett), returning WR (Derrick) a P5  D1 O lineman so I think the will be pretty good on O. On D side a very good DT (Bellzaire) and a few LB and DB's from last years team. They are usually able to reload fairly easy, so if they can get by the Saints, the regional and semi state should not be as tough as sectional match up. 

So, what team will be the fourth team on sectional #3 then?

20 hours ago, WCHS Tiger Fan said:

if any one might know how the sectional's might line up , go ahead and post them, only for Class 6 A

They will be in sectional 3 with Carroll, Homestead and likely Noblesville.

2 hours ago, WCHS Tiger Fan said:

i am sorry if i made some people mad but  i am doing this for 6 A Only 

Doing what??

17 hours ago, WCHS Tiger Fan said:

we don't want to , we want to compete with penn , not homestead  or carroll

You will if, and that is the questionable, you make regionals

1 hour ago, BTF said:

Let's start with Carroll, then Homestead, then maybe Penn if you can get out of Sectional 3..........................Baby steps.

Seriously, I hope you guys really can compete with Penn.  However, you have along way to go to be put in the "Penn" category. Right now I would say Warsaw is Carroll caliber. And I only put them in Carroll's category because they had a decent 2018. Earn your way to Penn. If you can get out of sectional 3 by upending the favorite..........Homestead..........then I will be the first fan in the stands to watch Warsaw compete with Penn. Realistically, if you go to Penn's sectional, it could be one and done.

I've always thought, under the right leadership, the Warsaw community could put a quality product on the football field. I'm thinking of the Phil Jenson led teams of 2000 and 2001. In 2000, they rolled their way to a 9-2 record, beating a very good Northwood team 29-28. Their only other blemishes were an overtime loss to Homestead and a second round loss to Penn (eventual state champs) 10-7. Then came 2001. The entire Warsaw community had Penn on their mind.............they wanted revenge. However, this time, they were assigned to Sectional 3...............SNIDER. They rolled through the regular season undefeated and waxing every opponent they faced, including Kokomo 62-0 in the opening round of the sectionals. When they took the field against Snider, I couldn't believe how big they were..........their offensive line was enormous............one of the biggest I've seen at the high school level. Right away, 14-0 Warsaw. Then Snider made a slow comeback. 14-14 in the 3rd. 20-14 Warsaw (missed extra point). Last minute drive, 20-20 (missed extra point). Overtime...............Snider 23-20. That was one of the best football games I've ever witnessed. Both Penn and Snider eventually lost to Valpo that year. Valpo eventually lost to Ben Davis.

It is my hope that Bart Curtis can get Warsaw to that 2001 level again.

Good luck to the Tigers, I really wish them success. We need more strong programs representing 6a north.

As you said, baby steps for Warsaw. They are the team on rise, but are still behind Carroll, Homestead, Penn and probably Valpo in region and then Jeff and Carmel for Semi. So they got a ways to go, so lets see what they can do in next 3-5 years. That will tell you if program is "stepping" up. 

12 hours ago, WCHS Tiger Fan said:

right where they are right now

So, you are saying they will switch Penn to play in Sectional 3 so Warsaw can stay in Sectional #2??

I doubt that will happen.

7 hours ago, WCHS Tiger Fan said:

warsaw is not going to fort wayne

Well, where would they go then?