slice60

On 11/24/2019 at 1:41 AM, Bemfactor7 said:

Against Dwenger, Valpo had an opening drive TD - at home - after waiting all day for Dwenger to arrive - and that was it. Dwenger muffed a punt return and gave Valpo field position for their field goal. If NP defense is same as Dwenger I don't see Valpo scoring enough to win, not to mention magically milking time off the clock in long, sustained drives that keep the game close. Valpo is good but NP is a nightmare. I wanted to say 35-0 New Pal but instead I'll say:

New Pal 31

Valpo 7

Valpo did have 2 long TD runs called back by penalty.

CG 19 Carmel 17

Because CG was 4-5 & the people who want to get rid of the all-in tournament are fools. 

Going with heart (DAC loyalty) over head (New Pal dominance) & hoping that the Valpo size wears down the NP skill & speed.

Valpo 22 New Pal 21

Must admit I am surprised by the outcome of this poll. So you guys wouldn't mind if all 4 NFL Playoff games or all New Years Day Bowl games are played at the same time?

All 12 of tonight's games kickoff between 7-8pm EST tonight. And all will be available on ihsaatv.org 

The IHSAA sets the Semi State schedule in several other sports (basketball, baseball). Should they be involved in setting the dates/time for the Football Semi State games with 6 games on Friday night & 6 games on Saturday afternoon/night? Half of the Semi State winners don't play until next Saturday so they wouldn't have a short week of practice.

I posted this on another thread but it's applicable here. After cruising through a weak Sectional field, Valpo (essentially a 6A program) enjoys a significant enrollment gap versus the rest of their tournament foes. 

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Don't forget-- Valpo has always been in 6A & would have remained in 6A if the IHSAA didn't make the change to 2 Success Factor points (which kept Snider up in 6A).

Interesting sidenote: Valpo is the largest school in 5A football (2054 students) & just destroyed Mishawaka 49-0 (1477--just moved up from 4A with an enrollment increase). In the Semi State, they take on FW Dwenger (1015-- bottom half of 4A enrollment but bumped up this season due to Success Factor). If Valpo makes it to LOS, the likely opponent will be New Pal (1175-- middle of 4A enrollment).

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I saw Valpo in person in week 3 at LaPorte. The Slicers hung with them early (0-0 after 1Q) but it all fell apart late in the half. Final was 35-0. Also saw some of Valpo's miracle comeback over Merrillville. Valpo had more success passing that expected so I hope they open up the offense & air it out a bit more vs Dwenger. Unlike the last 3 weeks, it won't be easy for the Vikings to put 40+ points on the board utilizing a simple run game.

Prediction: Valpo 28 Dwenger 13

Interesting footnote: after traveling to Sheridan for the Sectional opener, Lutheran will host their 4th straight tournament game on Friday. Everything is falling in place for the Saints 1st trip to LOS after falling just 1 game short in 14, 16, 17, 18.

2 hours ago, Knightmare said:

With New Pal likely headed for 6A due to success factor, will they try to schedule Warren, Ben Davis, or Carmel?  Beating Center Grove the last two years is super impressive, so will New Pal try to take another step up and play one of the Mega schools? 

I would say it's a toss-up whether New Pal earns 6 points in 2019 & 2020 to move up to 6A after the 2020 season. Even though they beat Cathedral & are favored to win the state title, Dwenger or Valpo will give them a battle. Don't forget-- Valpo has always been in 6A & would have remained in 6A if the IHSAA didn't make the change to 2 SF points.

Interesting sidenote: Valpo is the largest school in 5A football (2054 students) & just destroyed Mishawaka 49-0 (1477--just moved up from 4A with enrollment increase). In the Semi State, they take on FW Dwenger (1015-- bottom half of 4A enrollment but bumped up this year due to Success Factor). If Valpo makes it to LOS, the likely opponent will be New Pal (1175-- middle of 4A enrollment).

Even if New Pal takes home the state title (4 points) this year, they would need to win Regional (2 points) next season which goes thru Cathedral again.

While I agree that the current system is not perfect, I think that the current Success Factor system has been positive overall-- for all sports.

Speaking of football only-- In general, programs that are bumped up are still competitive playing up with several (Cath, New Pal, Dwenger, Col East) continuing to advance far in the tournament. 

For those who propose a 4-year cycle, I offer this counter-argument. Let's say your school has a "golden" class or two which brings home a couple of state titles earning enough points in the 4-year cycle to be bumped up to a higher class. That means the incoming Freshmen would have to compete in that higher class for all 4 years of their HS career. 

The IHSAA recognized that something (Success Factor, Multiplier, separate P/P tournament) had to be done & they selected the best option, in my opinion. Just looking at 4A football is a great example-- from 1996-present, just 3 schools have taken home 14 state championships & 5 runner-ups in those 23 years. That means Cathedral, Roncalli & Dwenger (under 5% of the 64 -team field) made up 19 of the 46 (41%) state finalists & 14 of the 23 champions (61%) during those years.

The Success Factor provides some competitive balance & should not be viewed as a punishment to those programs. Look at what Cathedral has done-- after dominating 4A with 5 state titles in 7 years, they went up to 5A & won back-to-back state titles. After going up to 6A, they still won back-to-back Sectionals (then dropped down to 5A before the change from 3 points to 2 points). Back to 5A, they won Regional in 2017 & Sectional in 2019.

Dwenger just got bumped up into 5A this year & they are playing in the Semi State on Friday. In my mind, those top-notch football programs are currently playing at the right level of competition.

Besides those folks who support those schools with overflowing trophy cases, do we really want to see the exact same teams at LOS every year? Without the Success Factor system, this year's 4A title game would likely be Dwenger vs Cathedral. Personally, I'm happy to see that Hobart, East Noble & Mt Vernon are all just 1 win away from LOS. And programs like Dwenger & Cathedral still have a legitimate shot at taking home the 5A state trophy-- Dwenger is playing in the Semi State & Cathedral had a 2nd half lead in last week's Regional.

8 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Interesting:  Memorial could win 4a while playing up a class......hmmmmm  

New Pal might win back-to-back 5A state titles playing up a class. Cathedral won back-to-back 5A state titles in 2013 & 2014 playing up a class.

3 hours ago, DanteEstonia said:

Why not have classes 1A-5A contain the same number of teams?

That's how it was from 1985-2012. The IHSAA split up the largest class into 5A + 6A because the top half in enrollment was DOMINATING 5A when it was a 64-team tournament.

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/high-school/2019/11/18/indiana-high-school-basketball-ihsaa-calls-southport-violation-egregious-and-obvious/4229644002/

Many quotes from Commissioner Cox in this articles. He acknowledges that it really stinks for the Seniors to miss out on the tournament because of what Brand & others did.

With Lemba declared ineligible for 2019-20, I assume he will still be allowed to play for Southport for the next 3 years.

Are these Semistate dates/times officially set as Harrell's site shows? With some long Semi State road trips, I expected a few Saturday games.

22 minutes ago, indycoach10 said:

Cathedral fans are really showing their @$$ on Twitter right now spreading a completely false rumor about an outstanding young man. Please know that when the entire state hates you, this type of stuff is why. It's inexcusable reprehensible behavior by adults towards a high school kid. 

 

Yet another reason to dislike Cathedral. Too bad that Dad is unable to teach his children to lose with class because he has no class.

Frankly, #32 wasn't even on the field when that game was decided. Because the game was decided by the Dragons defense who kept the Irish out of the endzone twice inside the 5 (1 made FG, 1 missed FG) & had 3 takeaways in the 2nd half.

New Pal's defense is underrated. They all run & hit like crazy & make big plays. 

1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

I can only imagine.  Is alcohol allowed on the premises?

There's got to be copious amounts of alcohol being consumed by the folks with the huge bonfire on the adjacent property. 

Very good points by Coach K & JQWL. 

When you learn about football programs with numbers so low they cannot field a team, I tend to think of the smallest of the small schools. This isn't the case for Crawford Co & you both pointed out several reasons why it's happening at CC & elsewhere too.

Surprising that CC is a 2A program (34th biggest enrollment in 2A, so not even near the bottom) but unable to get more kids to play.

But as they say, success breeds success. Only 16 wins in 13 seasons certainly doesn't attract kids to join the program.

10 hours ago, Hoosier Hawk said:

FC Defense did not play as well as usual. Got good rush early but as the game went on, couldn't contain CN's QB in key downs and he made some big plays.

Offense is obviously young but made plays when they needed to. A young QB made some bad decisions early but made some good throws that got them the W. Several plays where there were easy reads and wide-open guys.

I had the pleasure of sitting near "That's a bad play call" guy all night. FC struggled running the ball late and when they go with a pass that QB panics and decides to run it's "That's a bad play call". 

The "fumble" that you are mentioning occurred after the whistle was blown and the player was ruled down. Unless the clock operator had a delayed finger, they needed to run more time off than a quick kneel.

I don't get to many, but attending HS games as a fan would be a lot easier if there were less coaches in the stands... Maybe you should apply?

Regardless... FC will need a flawless game this week and it might still not be enough to get CG.

Who said quick kneel? FC uses shotgun 100% of the time. So the QB can take the snap, wait a moment then take a knee. Plus, the 40 second clock operator never resets the clock instantly at HS games.

But I will give you this much-- milking 2:04 with 3 kneel downs requires proper execution to snap at 1-2 seconds, etc. So I am ok with handing off to the #1 RB once or twice. But the decision to hand off to the soph backup on 3rd down WHEN THE GAME CLOCK WAS ALREADY UNDER 0:40 ABSOLUTELY MADE NO SENSE. Heck, FC still had a timeout. If no one on the staff has the math skills to subtract 40 seconds in their head, call timeout. So the Coach could have made it easy for the players after the 3rd down running play-- tell the offense to stay in the huddle, let the play clock run, call timeout with :01 left or take a delay of game. That would have taken the game clock below 0:40, meaning a 3rd down kneel would clearly finish it.   

Whether it was a fumble or post-whistle doesn't really matter. There is 100% no doubt that FC took an unnecessary risk because the staff failed to understand how to manage the end game.

But after re-reading your entire post, it's clear you just wanted to disagree with everything I said.  

You say the FC defense didn't play as well as usual? They allowed only 11 points, put up the only 1st half points with a Pick-6, won the turnover battle 3-0, sacked the elusive North QB 4 times & blocked an early FG. To their credit, FC did connect on a couple key 4th Qtr pass plays including a big-time 25yd TD pass on 4th & 9. But the FC offense only managed 7 1st downs which left the D out there for 29 minutes & a 69-45 play differential.  

26 minutes ago, Bobref said:

No. If the kickers are first to touch a kick beyond the neutral zone, that is referred to as “first touching.” This gives the receiving team the right to take the ball at that spot after the play is over ... unless a bunch of other things happen that didn’t happen here. But the ball remains alive after first touching.

Thanks for clarification. So when the ball crosses the line of scrimmage, it's like a punt, right? If Kicking team touches it first but doesn't down it, then it's a live ball & the Receiving team can advance the ball. But the main takeaway is that the Receiving team will get ossession. 

SLIGHT CORRECTION-- I watched video a few more times & now I think that the ball barely crossed the goal line just before it was touched. In that case, the ball is dead/touchback as soon as it crossed the goal line. So it doesn't matter who touched it first or who recovered it.

Ref was right there to make the call with touchback signal. 

2 hours ago, hhpatriot04 said:

Ball is dead on any kick in high school the moment it crosses the goal line. It would be a touch back. GS ball on their 20 if there was time left. 

Watched the posted video & it looks like a GS player (kicking team) touched the ball around the 1, knocked it into the endzone & then recovered it.

By rule-- If the ball crosses the line of scrimmage & is touched by kicking team first, it is a dead ball & HH (defense) gets ball on 20 like a touchback. Doesn't matter whether ball was touched at 1 or in endzone.

All that said, there was a HH player in the mix trying to jump on the ball but I don't think he touched the ball first. GS coach was probably lobbying for that.

12 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

6A did not disappoint. #1, #3, #6, and #9 (AP Poll) are gone. #2 went to OT with a 1-9 team. Warren, Ben Davis, Center Grove, and Carmel are swimming around like Jaws in Amity Island. LN finally tosses LC to the side after 12 years and 15 games. 

You mentioned Noblesville's near monster upset of unbeaten Homestead.

Some other close calls...

Penn squeaked by bottom of DAC Portage 13-6

#12 Warsaw needed a late score to knock off Chesterton 35-28

Southport 41 Tech 40

Based on my ugly contest bracket, 6A was a minefield for the favorites...

#4 Merrillville 27 #2T Laf Jeff 20

Carroll 42 #11 Snider 31 at Snider

Westfield 42 #6 Fishers 14

#8 Brownsburg 27 #1 Avon 24 (revenge for when Avon knocked out unbeaten BB last year 38-0)

LN 14 LC 7

Franklin Central 14 Col North 11

(near-huge upset: #2T unbeaten Homestead scored late to take 1-8 Noblesville to OT & then Homestead won 24-21)

5A 

Slicers knocked off Michigan City 14-10 @ City (Hmmmmm....where's that preseason article in which MC Coach Mason proclaimed that it would be either Valpo or City representing the north at LOS?)

Castle 28 @ #8 Bl North 21 OT

4A

Lebanon 32 Western 31

3A

2-8 Princeton 35 8-2 Edgewood 6 (35-6?!!!)

2A 

Andrean 27 #6 Boone Grove 0

1A

Northfield 14 #3 Southwood 6

Gonna be a tough, tough matchup next week for Franklin Central traveling to CG. (Thanks, Mr. Obvious!)

Like usual, the FC defense propped u the offense last night in the 14-11 victory over Col North. PICK-6 late 2nd was the only score of the half. Won turnover battle 3-0 thanks to D & S/T.

DESPERATE PLEA TO FC COACHING STAFF. When you took over on downs with 2:04 & North holding 0 timeouts, you could have gone to Victory formation with 3 kneeldowns. You did not need to take the risk of 3 running plays. I almost had a heart attack when the ball was given to your big Soph RB with under :40 to go & he FUMBLED. FC was lucky to recover that. Can you hire a math teacher to join your staff for clock management purposes?

I heard that LJ QB Max Grimes hurt his knee on the final play of the 1st half & did not return. Can anybody confirm that?