slice60

Why not??? I have no idea if Cathedral basketball or Cathedral overall receives a lot of incoming transfers. All I am saying is that the IHSAA should (if they are not doing so already) track transfers by school / program / coach in order to spot potential outliers.

You guys kind of proved my point from last week in which I pondered whether the IHSAA looks more closely at schools/coaches who get a lot of transfers in. Jason Delaney has been the Cathedral hoops coach since 2017 & was the HC at Tech from 2012-16. Tech won state in 2014. Cathedral won state in 2022. Maybe the basketball-brothers initial denial was more about Coach Delaney than Cathedral. It seems like Delaney has (rightly) earned the reputation of being a HC who benefits from (recruits) D1-talent transferring in from surrounding schools to win a whole lot of basketball games.

From the most recent (November 8, 2024) quarterly IHSAA Executive Committee Minutes: Transfers Assistant Commissioner Brian Lewis reported on transfers that have been ruled on for the period of June 1, 2024-October 30, 2024. And this is from the June 2024 quarterly IHSAA Executive Committee Minutes: Commissioner Paul Neidig presented the number of transfers from June 1, 2023 through May 31, 2024. He said the total number of transfers continues to be very similar year in and year out. And more than 99 percent of cases receive some form of eligibility. As you can see, approximately 93% of transfers have been awarded Full Eligibility over the past 18 months. So many get approved but the spotlight always shines bright on the controversial denials. I don't have a strong opinion either way on these Mt.Vernon-to-Cathedral transfers but I will offer up two thoughts on the transfer process. 1) I would be curious to know if the IHSAA consistently tracks the number of transfers in/out of each school/sport. If so, I wonder if that is taken into consideration when the IHSAA has to make a tough ruling on a disputed transfer. In other words, let's say Coach A has been the basketball coach at School A for 10 years. During that period, 15 student-athletes with significant varsity experience at their previous schools have transferred to School A which has contributed to great success for School A's basketball program. When the 16th & 17th student-athletes file the transfer paperwork to School A, does that set off alarm bells at the IHSAA? 2) Don't forget that every student-athlete can enroll at any school* before his/her Freshmen year without any interference by the IHSAA. There are plenty of families out there who do the research up-front so that they can enroll their kid(s) as a Freshman at a school which can best meet all their academic & athletic needs. *Some school districts with full classrooms mandate that all students must live within that school district's boundaries.

Why is it an automatic first down in HS for Roughing the Kicker/Punter & Roughing the Passer but not for a Personal Foul or Personal Foul-15 yard Facemask? Is a Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalty against the defense an automatic first down in HS?

At the risk of opening my mouth & revealing my own ignorance, if a blocker legally blocks/knocks down a defender & lands on top of the defender, is it a Holding penalty if the offensive player lays on top of the defensive player without using his hands/arms to hold him down? If the answer is yes, then you are telling me that an offensive player can be flagged for Holding without using his hands/arms to hold the defensive player down. That seems strange. Just curious-- did you hear an announcer say this is the Center Grove-Warren Central game? I was there. I believe that the white hat flagged a CG OL for this exact infraction at the moment a CG runner was tackled 20 yards downfield. Maybe that's how the rule is written but it doesn't make sense to me. If an offensive player is allowed to block until the whistle when both players are on their feet, why should the offensive player have to immediately get off of the defender (ie. stop blocking) before the play has ended just because they are both on the ground?

Maybe this is addressed in new language with the rolling 2-year points. Let's use FW Snider football as a hypothetical example. Due to the Success Factor, they have bumped up to 6A for the '24 & '25 seasons. They did not win a Sectional in '24 (0 points). Therefore, Snider will drop down to 5A in '26 even if they win a Regional in '25 (2 points total earned in '24+'25) as long as they don't win Semistate or State. Let's say Snider wins a 6A Regional (2 points) in '25, drops down to 5A & then wins the '26 5A State Championship (4 points)-- would the IHSAA count this as 6 points earned in 2 years (even though it would be in 2 different classes) & then bump them up to 6A starting in '27? Or does a program automatically stay in a class for at least 2 years after it has been bumped up OR dropped down due to the Success Factor points?

I did not intend for my previous post to be a quote. That was solely a post from me. So is this correct? 6A -> 5A: Cathedral will move down to 5A (1point in '23+'24) 5A -> 6A: Decatur Central will move up to 6A - won semistate (6+points in '23+'24) 4A -> 5A: New Palestine moves up to 5A only if they win state (5+points in '23+'24) 3A -> 4A: Heritage Hills will move up to 4A - won semistate (6+points in '23+'24) 2A: Lafayette CC - stays up in 2A (3points in '23+'24) 1A -> 2A: North Judson will move up to 2A only if they win state (5+points in '23+'24)

My bad. I missed it. In fact, I did not realize that FW Luers is up in the 3A enrollment group.

I am a big proponent of the Success Factor. However, I would make this one change -- a team CANNOT be bumped up unless they won a State Championship-- you can call it the "Adams Central asterisk". Adams Central football got bumped from 1A to 2A with runner-up finishes in '22 & '23 ('21 too). In my opinion, if you don't have the BIGGEST trophy in your school trophy case, then you should still be competing in your enrollment class. This could be accomplished by simply changing the Bump-Up criteria to 7 points while changing the points earned for being a State Champion from 4 to 5. So being State Champ(5) + Regional Champ(2) = 7 points (Bumped Up). But Runner-up(3) + Runner-up = 6 points (NOT Bumped Up). Fun fact: As the SF currently works, Adams Central football could conceivably get Bumped Up into 3A for the '26 & '27 seasons if they become 2A State Runner-ups in both '24 & '25. In other words, they could be Runner-up for 5 straight seasons (0 state titles) & find themselves playing 2 classes above enrollment.

If just 1 of the refs threw a flag WHEN THE INFRACTION APPARENTLY OCCURRED, maybe it would be slightly more acceptable. When the crew huddles up with the home team AD chirping at them while the teams shake hands, things start to look a bit wonky.

True. But after Danville scored a TD in OT, the Danville stopped Brebeuf for 4 plays...then Brebeuf was given a 5th down.

I would like to say yes, but would have to say doubtful. After staying healthy thru week 7, injuries to FC's key skilled players seem to be piling up. Plus, the best-in-the-biz CG staff essentially gets 3 weeks to prepare for either FC or CN while the FC staff starts working on CG gameplan now.

I only saw video of the Eagles TD & 2 pt conv for the win. On the TD, did the QB score or did he fumble into the EZ for a recovery by a teammate? I could not tell from the video. On the 2pt, Zion went Wildcat with Hilton-- he had to break a tackle near the sideline & then dive for the goal line near the pylon. Heckuva effort. Too bad it was negated because the refs huddled together postgame & decided that the Zionsville players left the sideline too early to celebrate. Oh wait, my bad-- that horrendously terrible totally lacking common sense call happened last week.

Correct. 4-year FC starting QB missed the Westfield game due to injury but gutted it out to play last night vs Col North. FC D came up huge with 2 3rd Qtr takeaways in CN territory to turn a 17-7 deficit into a 21-17 lead with about 2:30 to go in the 3rd. There was no more scoring but ALOT happened in the final 15 minutes of play. After getting a 3rd takeaway (diving INT in EZ for a touchback by backup CB on deflected pass) with 0:42 left, the FC D had to do it all over again after CN recovered a fumble 3 plays later (CN had saved all 3 timeouts so FC could not simply kneel out the clock) with 0:24 left. In the end, the Flashes D made TWO stops inside the red zone in the final minute of the game. Gutsy win for FC (now 6-3) over a tough CN squad.

Stamp an L on my forehead-- I forgot to make my round 2 picks. D'oh!

Cathedral football is the poster-child for implementation of the Success Factor system. Even with 4A enrollment, they are currently playing in the right class (6A) based upon the strength of Cathedral football year in & year out. Prior to SF implementation, Cathedral won the 4A championship 5 of 7 years (06,08,10,11,12) then moved up & immediately won 5A titles in 13,14. Up in 6A for 2 seasons, they won Sectionals in 15,16 before moving down for 5 years. Initially, they got eliminated by all-time great teams in Col East (17 champion), Dec Cent (18 runner-up), New Pal (19 champion) before cruising to 5A titles in 20 (avg winning margin in tourney--34pts) & 21 (avg winning margin in tourney--30pts). Once again being up in 6A, they won a Regional in 22 & Sectional in 23 before losing to the eventual champs CG & BD. Fun fact: In those 9 state championship seasons in 4A & 5A noted above, 50 of those 53 victories were by double digits. with the average margin of victory by 31.75 points.

Poor analogy. Same thing happened to me in my senior year. Disappointing? Absolutely. But injuries just happen though nobody's fault. I have zero allegiance to either team. I watched some of this game online but stopped at 35-14 thinking it was decided. I missed Danville scoring 29 straight 4th Qtr points...Brebeuf scoring a miracle TD to get to OT...& the OT in which Danville scored a TD & then stopped Brebeuf on 4 plays. Game over. Period. Those Danville kids pulled off a once-in-a-lifetime comeback against a great Brebeuf team & then got robbed by the refs. You can call it whining. I am just voicing my opinion & I feel bad for those Danville kids. From an IndyStar article: “In high school football, it was one of the oddest endings I’ve ever seen. Really disappointing for our kids because the game wasn’t decided on the field unfortunately,” Danville coach Jayme Comer said. “Officials are put in really difficult situations. That crew, their white hat got hurt last week, and they had a new white hat. It was his first game as a white hat all season, and it was definitely a difficult spot for him and for them to be in. “I don’t know. I wish that we would have won the game, and we all feel we did. They deserve the right to play another week of the season, and unfortunately, that was taken away from them.”

Ok, fine. not a Sideline Warning. I understand your 100% commitment to the Rule Book but I stand by my statement that the officials should have used better Common Sense. I think we can agree that this was a "judgement call". Based on a earlier comment, somebody said that the crew talked it over for 5 minutes before even dropping a flag. They didn't throw a flag immediately because it truly had no impact on the play, on any of the 22 players on the field or any of the officials either. Here is my why, in my opinion, this crew made a terrible decision. One (of several) indyStar articles about this game had this headline: "Trick plays, controversy, OT finish: Brebeuf vs. Danville football sectional had it all." If that 4th down stop had been the final play of the game, the word controversy would not apply to this game at all. Do you think anybody on the Brebeuf sideline immediately thought "No fair! Some of their guys left the sideline before the whistle was blown & that's why we didn't score!"???

Two words: COMMON SENSE. I have a follow-up question for Bobref & any other officiating experts-- WHY WASN'T THIS CALLED A SIMPLE SIDELINE WARNING??? No penalty yardage, game over. Players celebrating 20+ yards from the action had no impact on the play itself. Officials always need to use COMMON SENSE. This is not the NFL in which every little infraction is scrutinized & every ruling by each official is graded. This game was stolen away from Danville. Period.

1. Columbia City @ FW Dwenger 2. Culver Academy @ Lebanon 3. Danville @ Brebeuf Jesuit 4. Woodlan @ Tippecanoe Valley 5. Heritage @ Delta 6. Rushville @ Franklin County 7. Evansville Memorial @ Evansville Mater Dei 8. Heritage Hills @ Gibson Southern 9. Western Boone @ North Putnam 10. North Montgomery @ Southmont 11. Eastbrook @ Tipton 12. Heritage Christian @ Indianapolis Lutheran 13. Lapel @ Northeastern 14. North Posey @ South Vermillion 15. Carroll (Flora) @ Frontier 16. West Washington @ South Decatur 17. Providence @ Springs Valley 18. South Spencer @ Forest Park

Follow-up. My question originated from the Franklin Central at Noblesville varsity game in early October. As noted in my original post, DPI was called against FC on a Noblesville TD pass. When given the choice, Noblesville chose to have the 15-yard penalty enforced on the ensuing kickoff. This past Saturday, I attended the Westfield at FC junior varsity game. DPI was called against Westfield on a FC TD pass. Without consulting the FC sideline, the head referee signaled that the penalty was declined in favor of the TD. After the PAT, a FC coach had an extended conversation with the entire 4-man crew in an attempt to plead the case that FC has the right to have the penalty enforced on the ensuing kickoff. The crew obviously disagreed as the kickoff was taken at the 40. The FC coach was correct. The crew made a mistake. Just like me, some licensed Indiana HS officials need to come here to learn some valuable lessons from Bobref.

Rare to see a 83-65 score in HS hoops.

Absolutely the biggest FC win in the HCC since joining the conference in 2018. 😃😃😃

Gotcha. So the high school rules dictate that any defensive penalty can be enforced on XP or kickoff. I got fooled by seeing all of these basic defensive penalties (including DPI) get declined on TD's in college & pro games. Frankly, this seems like another HS rule which is too punitive (like the offensive holding spot-foul behind the LOS--which has been changed). In my opinion, only 15 yard Personal Foul & Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalties should be carried over.

Wow! Is that a high school only rule? I seem to see defensive penalties on a TD declined by the scoring team on Saturdays & Sundays all the time. And that applies to every type of penalty, even a 5 yard Offside penalty?