slice60

EXACTLY! They approved the change to 2pts at the same time that winter sports classifications were rolled out. So the lower 2 point minimum was applied & Marquette stayed in 2A. Apparently the IHSAA decided that they would not apply it to the fall sports even though Cathedral football earned 2 points in the same 2-year cycle. I acknowledge that it would have caused changes to the football classifications. But frankly, Marquette has a very valid argument that (if it's NOT going to be applied to ALL sports) then the new 2-point minimum shouldn't come into play until the next 2-year cycle ends. When the basketball season ended, they had earned 2 points & the minimum was 3 points at that moment. That's not an accurate statement. Marquette boys basketball has been kept in 2A after earning just 2 points in the current cycle.

The Success Factor rule has been tweaked to lower the minimum from 3 points to 2 points for teams to remain in a higher class. Because of this rule change, Marquette remains in 2A Boys Basketball (Sectional Champs in 2018 & 2019) solely due to this change. So why is Cathedral football dropping from 5A to 4A after winning the 5A Regional in 2017??? Just like Marquette basketball, Cathedral football earned 2 points during the 2-year cycle that just ended. Granted, the fall sports classifications were announced back in February but they made unusual adjustments for the Elkhart consolidation. So it's not like everything was set in stone. APRIL 29 IHSAA NEWS RELEASE: The group approved by an 18‐1 vote a modification to Rule 2.5, also known as the Tournament Success Factor. The result lowers the number of points needed (from 3 points to 2 points) by a school already playing in a higher classification to continue playing in that same class for another two years. Schools that win a regional championship in a single season or a sectional championship in back‐to‐back seasons would remain in that same higher class. The rule up to this point had required three points (two sectional titles and a regional title) to continue in that class.

Exactly. Every state federation has to implement procedures to balance the competition in the State Tournaments. The IHSAA incorporated the Success Factor earlier this decade. Illinois has a 1.65x Multiplier. Other states do other things. I suppose some states go strictly on enrollment. There is no perfect answer. For that matter, enrollment isn't a perfect benchmark. There may be 2 schools with the same enrollment but if School A gets twice as many kids to try out for a certain sport than School B, then School A will probably have a much stronger team. I love the folks who say that their kids worked harder & overcame adversity to win state titles but follow it up by saying it's unfair to make the younger kids play at a higher class in the State Tournament because they happen to be "less talented". Should the IHSAA make judgement calls based upon JV records or something? Several programs have enjoyed ALOT of success in higher classes after bumping up. After winning 5 of 7 state titles in 4A, Cathedral went up to 5A & immediately won consecutive titles in the higher class. Then they won consecutive Sectionals at 6A before being bumped down (which wouldn't have happened under the new Success Factor '2 points & you stay up' rule). New Pal football will remain in 5A for the 5th &6th straight seasons because they were runner-ups in 2015 & champs in 2018. Col East bumped up to 5A at the same time. Took 2nd in 2016, champs in 2017, final 4 in 2018 so they will jump all the way up to 6A for the next 2 seasons. In boys basketball, Marquette bumped up to 2A 4 years ago-- they have won 4 Sectionals & 1 Regional in that span so they will stay in 2A. In baseball, LCC took the 1A state title in 2004, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013. After bumping up to 2A, they have won 5 straight Sectionals, 4 Regionals, & 2 Semistates. Seems fair to say they should NOT be playing 1A anymore.

Not trying to start an argument with all of the "punishing good programs" advocates but I look at the Success Factor as a way for teams of similar ability in the same class for the IHSAA State Tournament in order to improve the competitive balance. And since the State Tournament is sanctioned by the IHSAA, they can decide which teams are placed in which class. Is the current Success Factor system perfect? No. But it's an improvement over the Enrollment-only system in my opinion.

Don't you want to test yourselves against competition around the same level? More than half of Dwenger's schedule has always been against 5A-6A schools so why not face them in the tournament too? If the IHSAA ever put that Private/Charter Multiplier in place, there would be an total uproar. Wish it would happen but we all know it won't.

Wow, really? Do you know if your program had a lower pitch count than the opponent? Which schools were involved?

I found a way to view the stats kept by LaCrosse on the GameChanger website (Morgan Twp does not use that site)-- in that Friday game, Swivel threw 80 pitches. So he was only required to have 2 days rest (61-80 pitches), which means he was eligible to pitch again on Monday. 208 pitches over a 4-day span is still alot -- all in order to beat a 2-17 LaCrosse team 2-1 & 4-3.

https://www.apnews.com/81326e4d4199467998c7d8091abb92c7 Found the game article written by the same sportswriter. The pitcher (Hunter Swivel) hit 121 pitches in the 7th with 1 out, bases loaded, leading 4-3. Even though the LaCrosse Coach (Chris McGowan) apparently stopped the game to inform the umpires (who have no pitch count responsibilities), I assume that the Morgan Twp Coach (John Smith) either claimed that the pitch count number was lower or just refused to engage at all. The kid stayed in the game & retired the next 2 hitters to hold onto the 4-3 lead. On a potentially even more interesting note, Swivel also threw a complete game 4-hitter with 13 K's & 0 walks against LaCrosse 3 days earlier on Friday May 10. This Porter Co Tourney game was on Monday May 13. So that means Swivel had 2 days rest-- under the IHSAA Pitch Count rule, a pitcher can only pitch on 2 days rest if he threw 80 pitches or fewer. I have no proof but it seems pretty unlikely that he threw only 80 pitches over 7 innings with 13 K's. If he went over 80 pitches on Friday, then Coach Smith broke the IHSAA Pitch Count Rules TWICE & had his star pitcher potentially throw well over 200 pitches over a 4 day span. Frankly, that's even worse than breaking the rules.

https://www.thenewsdispatch.com/sports/article_332c67f4-55d2-5c53-9204-eef742a841c8.html Another Pitch Count infraction...another total cluster**** without a reasonable resolution. I hope that the IHSAA has instructed all State Tournament hosts to have an official scorekeeper track & report pitches for every game (as Faulkens refers to below). As we all know, Scecina self-reported their infraction last year, albeit after being caught red-handed. But there needs to be a neutral official scorekeeper on site to report any infraction immediately. "During the season, the coaches keep their own pitch counts, so there's no way to judicate if there's a difference," IHSAA assistant commissioner Robert Faulkens said Thursday. "It's different for the (state) tournament (when there's an assigned official scorer), but during the season, whatever the coach has, that's what they have to go with on both sides."

Twilight DH both nights -- 5:30 & 8:30. Should be fun.

Ironic that several folks mentioned Travel ball. I went to Westfield Grand Park last Saturday to watch my friend's kid play in a 13U travel tourney sponsored by Bullpen Tournaments. 140 teams spread out from 8U-14U. Minimum 3 games guaranteed. NO PITCHING RESTRICTIONS. You read that right. It's totally up to the coaches (& parents?) to limit the innings & pitches for these young kids in weekend tournaments with 3-6 games over 2 days. https://bullpentournaments.com/2019-may-slugfest/ Due to some quirky scheduling, the team I was watching played 3 games on Saturday & got eliminated so they were done for the weekend. 2 kids threw in games 1 & 3-- starter went 3 innings & 2 innings, reliever went 1 inning & 5 innings. The team that knocked them out Saturday evening played 3 games on Saturday & then 3 more games to win the title on Sunday. I just looked up all of their games on the GameChanger app. In those 6 games, they used 7 different pitchers totaling 33 innings. (Most games are shortened due to time limits or run rule.) Only 1 kid threw both days-- 1.1 on Sat, 4.2 on Sunday. The kid with the most innings got a couple outs in game 1 Sat & then threw a complete game 7-inning shutout in game 3. I was at that game & he didn't throw many pitches. Teeny, tiny lefty who threw strikes & his D made all the plays. I expected to see several kids listed with 8-10 innings of work. So I gotta give credit to the coaches of that team for not overloading their best pitchers to get through those 6 games.

While I am not much of a fan of the Pitch Count Rule, it's clearly here to stay. Not sure if the IHSAA even has a say in this or if this is being mandated by the National Federation. As for your comment about the tournament & specifically about playing 2 Regional games in 1 day, teams used to play 2 games on a Saturday to win Sectional, 2 Regional games the following Saturday, 2 Semi-State games the following Saturday & 2 games at the State Finals back in the old single-class days. Even if you had an unhittable Ace with a bionic arm who could throw 10 innings for you each week, you needed a good #2 to fill up the rest of those innings every week. These days, you may not even need a #2 beyond the Regional. And depending on your draw & when you play, some lucky teams can get through the Sectional using their Ace almost exclusively.

http://www.ihsaa.org/Portals/0/ihsaa/documents/news media/2018-19/042919.BoardMeeting.pdf Seems like they passed the easy stuff (Success Factor tweak, Football Mercy Rule) & either strongly rejected (multiplier, easier to transfer) or tabled (territory definition) the tough stuff.

It does appear that the IHSAA did approve a proposed minor change to the Success Factor. For schools that have been bumped-up to a higher class, the proposal was to lower the minimum number of points to remain in that higher class from 3pts to 2pts during the 2-year cycle. In today's Sectional alignments, Marquette boys basketball is still listed in 2A after earning 2pts (2 sectional titles) in 2018 & 2019. This is a good change, in my opinion. If you're good enough to win back-to-back Sectionals or 1 Regional, then you're competitive enough to remain up there instead of dropping down.

There's no doubt that the Pitch Count rules have changed the game. Top teams need a solid staff instead of just 1 or 2 studs on the mound. And when you're facing an ace, it makes sense to have your weaker hitters work the count just to get his Pitch Count high. Did the IHSAA make any rules in the offseason regarding an infraction in a tournament game (to avoid another Scecina) or to mandate real-time Pitch Count tracking by the tournament host site?