BTF

Hawley and Isaacs built a machine at Snider from the late 70's to the early 2000's. I can assure you, with 99% certainty, that BD, WC, and Carmel weren't doing anything better with their programs than Snider was. Snider pulled through one time. If they had a student population of 3500, the 1 turns into 10+. Again............"massive." You're not going to change my mind on this. And I'm going keep going back to the largest three schools having 90% of the titles. It's not coincidence. And yes, they had good coaching as well. You can't have one without the other.

That's why I always touted Saban as a Top 20 coach. I'm not convinced that there isn't 20 other coaches around the country that couldn't do what he did. If you consider the number of coaches in college football, that's one hell of a compliment. I don't think it's possible to have an accurate ranking. Every coach has a different situation to work with.

This is a football forum. I think most on here just want other to believe that their program does things better than their competitors, ignoring the built-in advantages that they possess over their counterparts. At the end of the day, even with the advantages, there's still something to be said for what the coaching staffs have accomplished. Not just anyone can lead a program like Ben Davis, Cathedral, Carmel, or Warren Central to success. It takes a talent to do that. Nick Saban has a talent, but damn, he also had the best athletes in the country. No way he could have had the same amount of championships at Michigan State than he did at Alabama. I just don't know why it's so hard to say, "yeah, even though we have great men leading the way, we also have some advantages that some of our competitors don't have." It's ok to be a little humble. Just my opinion.

No doubt. Carroll is the number one growing area. I've just seen Homestead pick up steam recently and I see that trend continuing. It's hard to deny how nice Fort Wayne's southwest side is. After all, it's home to Indiana's wealthiest zip code.

For the 48th time, I never said enrollment was the end all be all, just a massive advantage. Call me an idiot, but I'm just not buying that the three largest schools having 34 state titles is just coincidence.

This is hilarious. You're being played like a fiddle.

No one will argue the strength of Carmel's swimming program. Kudos to them for the machine that they built. But let's be honest, if Homestead had 5000 students, Carmel's streak would come to an end. I'm sure there's a few other schools who could say the same.

There were many in the media that were touting the Warriors as one of the teams to beat in 6A last year, mostly from Indy. Sagarin had them at #15 I believe in the year end poll. They also came within a field goal of beating Ben Davis. Just because they went 0-2 vs Fort Wayne last year, doesn't make them a bad team. And for the record, Snider is 4-4 historically against Warren Central. I think my Snider/Luers comparison was a good one. It's ok to be humble and say, "yeah, we have an advantage."

I'm from Fort Wayne, so I'll give it my best shot. Ben Davis is a football school. Football brings in the most revenue (basketball could argue). Dick Dullaghan built a monster at Ben Davis. The administration made sure to continue that monster by putting the right men in the position. I'm guessing that BD doesn't put that kind of stock into the other sports. I'll defer to the Indy guys on this one, but that's my observation from 120 miles away.

We get that. Just acknowledge that having a large student body is a massive advantage. The school you follow ranks #2 in enrollment for crying out loud. It's simple, here, I'll give you an example: Snider has a historical record of 33-4 over Bishop Luers. Because Snider has a better program? Well, some might argue that Luers has twelve state championships to Snider's three. So it can't be that Snider's the better program. At the end of the day, Snider is so much larger than Luers, the Knights "private school advantage" is a non factor. We saw the same thing when Cathedral went from 5A to 6A. There's absolutely no way I'm putting money on the Irish winning 6A anytime soon, but many would argue that they have the best program in the state. It's just nice when those at the top of the food chain acknowledges that, "yeah, we have a significant advantage with our enrollment." If one more person mentions Center Grove I'm going to vomit. I'm talking "by and large."

Lmao.

Lol, fair enough.

So comparable to Homestead. Growing, but at a slower pace. I see Homestead picking up steam though.

Temptation hit the nail on the head. You can't compare Ben Davis now to how things were in the 90's...................C'MON MAN.

What if ignorance is also the truth?

SOCIOECONOMIC FACTORS. LEARNING TO PLAY TENNIS GOLF AND SWIMMING REQURIRES MONEY. SUBURBAN KIDS HAVE MORE OF IT........AND MORE FACILIITIES TO LEARN AT.

Bingo. Bingo.

Ben Davis will never compete with the suburban schools in Country Club sports, no matter the enrollment. It just won't happen. In all fairness. Referring to hard working programs as "irrelevant" and "chumps" isn't very mature either. It's one thing to have an opinion, entirely another to diminish programs that work their butts off.

If it's not about enrollment, I'd rather you explain to me why the three largest schools have 34 state titles combined. Each one of those schools have at least 11 titles and no one else in 6A or the former 5A is even close.

Their enrollment.

They're enrollment seems to be the same every year I look.

New Pal?

No one on this forum has ever mentioned that enrollment "alone" is the key to a championship. Coaching and building a program is a factor. Enrollment is a coaches dream. Ben Davis + Above Average Coach = Westfield + Great Coach

It's not the same four, the dynamic has changed along with the growth of the suburbs, mostly Indy. I still consider Center Grove as the new kid on the block, probably because they were nowhere to found prior to the Eric Moore era. Penn fell off the top of the mountain with the departure of Chris Geesman. Snider dissipated with shrinking enrollment and additional mega schools coming onto the scene. So yeah, you still have the same three largest schools in the state taking the championships, that hasn't changed. Insert Center Grove to replace Penn and you have, almost, the same four. Carmel, Ben Davis, and Warren Central will always be relevant as long as they continue to get good coaching. It's impossible not to be relevant with their enrollment numbers. But the odds of a Snider or Bloomington South slipping in and taking the whole thing in 6A (both were capable at one time) is highly less likely. There are just too many mega schools now to contend with. The million dollar question for me is "which one will step up like Center Grove did?" I'm talking about the schools with 2400-3400 enrollments.

I still had 6A on the brain when I posted. Outside of the privates, there's more parity in classes 1A-5A. In 6A, there are ten teams capable of knocking off the best if said team doesn't put their best foot forward. In the 80's and 90's, that wasn't the case. It was the Carmel, Penn, Snder, Ben Davis, and Warren Central show. Now you have Westfield, Brownsburg, Center Grove, HSE, Fishers, Crown Point, Avon, and Carroll (I'm probably missing a few). Hell, Noblesville and Zionsville are capable of knocking anyone off for that matter. Best be prepared.