JQWL

18 minutes ago, Just a dad said:

Now email the same guy and tell him your kid has a SAT score of 1500 and wants to get into Harvard but isn’t good at sports. I bet he tells you the same thing. Not quite the “gotcha” you were hoping for.

The correct answer should be, transfers for athletic purposes are not allowed in Indiana. Shouldn't matter.

18 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

Id bet you could replaced "I emailed an athletic director at a private school in the state." with "I emailed an athletic director at a public school in the state" and you likely would have got the same thing from the Public school.

I am willing to bet there have been more transfers into Public Schools than P/P Schools and also more transfers out of P/P than Public schools. 

I'll do that tomorrow.

You know, sometimes I like to do things for entertainment purposes. The other day, I emailed an athletic director at a private school in the state. Basically that my son was getting interest from some small D-1 and NAIA programs and we were interested in transferring him for his senior year to better prepare him for college. Mentioned he is a solid student. Top 10 in his class. Things like that. I feel like the AD probably should have just told me that transfers for athletic reasons aren't allowed in Indiana. However, I was referred to their Enrollment Director to set up a meeting. I didn't take it any further than that.

10 minutes ago, foxbat said:

There's also Greenwood Christian and FW Blackhawk in 1A now.

Where do the charters fit in?  There's Bowman, Christel House, and a couple others out there.

They weren't included because neither participated in the tournament, so wouldn't factor into the percentages for how many private schools won sectionals/regionals/semi-states/state championships.

26 minutes ago, PDB26 said:

No dog in this fight. I think members on both sides of this debate make some good points but, I'm curious, do you have/know the percentage of schools in each class that are p/p?

6A: 3.1% (Cathedral)

5A: 0%

4A: 9.4% (Memorial, Brebeuf, Roncalli, Culver Academy, Dwenger, SB St. Joe's)

3A: 6.3% (Guerin, Chatard, Mish. Marian, FW Concordia)

2A: 12.9% (Hammond Noll, Andrean, LCC, Luers, Mater Dei, Indy Scecina, Heritage Christian, Ritter)

1A: 6.9% (Park Tudor, Providence, Covenant, Lutheran) 

2 hours ago, Just a dad said:

Additionally the State of Indiana pays a little over $10k per public school student per year (your tax dollars). A school accepting the voucher is only paid $7k. This starts the accepting school off in a $3k hole per student (they then make this up with the additional tuition) and benefits the State by the same amount. A P/P of 800 kids starts with a deficit of $2.4M.

The IHSAA is a business (google “IHSAA salaries”) that works in conjunction with the State of Indiana. All of these discussions about separating P/P from public would likely cause the P/P schools to leave the IHSAA and form their own organization. This would be a not insignificant hit to the IHSAA’s bottom line. Do you think the IHSAA wants to see their $150k salaries be reduced?

Also, there might be a few families that then decide to send their kid to the public school (if they are chasing a ring) which would cause the State’s expenses to increase. 

This is a symbiotic relationship that benefits the parties that make the money. As George Carlin said “It’s a big club and you ain’t in it!”

Aren't both of these supplied by 'Your tax dollars"? Mine and yours. Unless private school parents pay taxes into a different government fund.

What would happen if all the publics left to form their own organization? Which would reduce the salary of IHSAA more?

Aiden Labhart from Perry Central, Jackson Barnett from Scottsburg, and Konner Chase from Springs Valley all made the Indianapolis Colts Academic All-State Team. Congratulations to them!

15 minutes ago, btownqbcoach1 said:

We play Eastern Pekin Week 3 in varsity at home. 

We can travel on 9/7 --- which is also Labor Day weekend. I assume we could host, as well, if needed. 

If interested.. you can DM me on here, or contact Coach May at rmay@btownccs.k12.in.us 

are you looking for a JV game?

3 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

So Luers could beat some college teams, yet couldn't beat East Noble, New Haven, or Homestead. Makes sense. If you truly believe that I have some ocean front property to sell you in Kansas.

Most of these 1A, 2A, and 3A schools play 4A, 5A, and 6A schools because they A.) have no choice because they are in their conference B.) will play whomever they can get because it is hard to get teams scheduled outside of weeks 1, 2, and 9 because of conference schedules. Even Center Grove and Carmel found that out after being ousted from the MIC. Center Grove had to schedule 5 out of State opponents. They play in the class the IHSAA places them in period (currently IHSAA uses enrollment unless a SF bump happens)  So your statement that they play 4A, 5A, and 6A opponents because they can compete with them, but when it comes to playing for rings they drop to 1A, 2A, and 3A is no where near factual.

All IHSAA schools have to abide by the IHSAA By-Laws. There is no separate By-Laws for Private and Public schools (Unless u=you can provide them to back up your statements). Rule 12 is Enrollment, Rule 19 is Eligibility and Transfer please enlighten us on how it is different for Private vs Public? I have seen @Footballking16 tackle the subject of transfers in the past you can feel free to bring that up.

There are advantages that Private Parochial Schools have but not in the areas you are pointing at.

I don't believe that. I said those were the comments in the 2A Championship game thread. 

2 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

Nor should it stop them from participating in the tournament that is held by the IHSAA. The IHSAA is not solely for Public Schools. Membership and dues are renewed annually for all of the schools.

"The purpose of the IHSAA is to ensure athletics remain subservient to academics, and to maximize the opportunity for students to engage in transformative relationships with coaches and teammates in which their character and emotional maturity is developed to empower them to be effective in life.

Any high school in the state, or any junior high school offering ninth grade, whether public, private, parochial, or institutional, if accredited by the Indiana Department of Education, may become a member of the Association by making a formal application that is authorized by its board of education and by subscribing to the rules and By-Laws of the Association. Membership, once attained, is renewable annually provided requirements are met. The purpose of the IHSAA is to encourage and direct wholesome amateur athletics in the high schools of Indiana."

Whom is really the ring chasers? The P/P or even Public schools that have won the ring or multiple rings? Or the ones incessantly complaining about every other thing because other schools have multiple rings and they do not? I mean it can be looked at both ways.

The landscape is totally different now than it use to be with Open Enrollment in Indiana now.

Ring Chasers is a term used in travel baseball to describe an organization that doesn't look for competition at their level. They want an easy win so they get that plastic ring. Like I mentioned, a team that is a Triple-A team playing at a lower level to get an easy win.

Obviously everyone wants to win a state championship. When I read the 2A championship thread and the discussion centers around how this isn't even a typical Luers team. Comparing them to teams that had multiple NFL players and someone even mentioned how that team would beat some college teams. Maybe Luers should start voluntarily playing up if they are so much better than their competition. Maybe that state championship would mean more. Most of these private schools that are at 1A/2A/and 3A play a schedule full of 4A/5A/6A teams weeks 1-9. That's because they feel like they can compete at that level. However, when it's for a ring (this is where the "ring chaser" comes into play) they want to compete with 1A/2A/3A schools. 

I still hate when open enrollment is used as a the equalizer for privates and publics. The transfer rules are still not the same. The enrollment rules still aren't the same. Just make them the same for everyone. That doesn't mean the private schools have to lose anything if that's what everyone is afraid of. If I had my way, I think the IHSAA should grant athletic eligibility to anyone that is enrolled at a school when everyone comes back from Dead Week. Where ever you are enrolled the 2nd week of July, that's the school you are eligible for the entire school year. The exception being a legitimate physical move. Just do that for everyone and I don't think there'd be as much complaining. Do I still think that privates should move up a class, yeah but I think this would help level the playing field somewhat.

53 minutes ago, FarmerFran said:

Its pretty well understood that p/p schools do have advantages over public schools, which is why parents that are able to offer these opportunities to their children send them there as opposed to public schools.  These kids, in most cases, have excellent family support and the opportunities to flourish in safer, more structured environments. If there were no advantages, parents wouldn't send their kids there. This translates to the football field.

 

When I read the prior comments, I'm not sure it's understood. 

4 minutes ago, kdets89 said:

The incessant weeping and gnashing of teeth displayed by overzealous public school fans around tournament time makes it difficult for private school coaches to enjoy the GID like any normal fan.  And that is a tragedy.

But it's not bad enough for the private schools to stop participating in the tournament with the overzealous public school fans. I 

It reminds me of travel baseball. Private schools are the Triple-A or Major team playing in a Single-A tournament early in the season just so they can win and take the picture with the ring to appease the travel ball mom in her razor back tank top. They're ring chasers and nothing more.

2 minutes ago, Just a dad said:

So now your issue is that private schools find a larger number of people to volunteer their time to act as coaches for the high school team? Or is it with the number of kids who want to play football even though they will likely never see a meaningful down on a Friday night? Not all P/P have the same challenges. Some overall challenges would be: outside interests, grades, keeping all of the kids engaged, managing parental expectations, size of facilities, availability of weight room for all of those kids, proper development of monitoring of lifting programs. I’m sure all programs have their challenges. The good ones find ways to overcome them bad the bad ones use them as excuses.

I have no issue with anyone wanting to help young men learn about football or almost anything else. I was just stating that I have never been one and was wanting to learn more about the struggles. You have successfully mentioned several generic struggles that any program has. I was thinking there were more specific to private schools. That's all.

23 minutes ago, Just a dad said:

I haven’t but I bet they are comparable to or better than some of the privates and probably some of the publics From what I have learned Chatard didn’t even have a home field til the last decade. They played every game on the road. Talk about a disadvantaged program. The point I constantly try to make is that every team has their challenges. They can be used as excuses or motivators. Winning organizations look for ways to maximize their outcomes under the current rules structure. Sometimes those are huge hurdles but there are a lot of kids playing college/pro sports who never won much of anything in HS sports. My goal as a parent and coach was to help kids become successful at the next level and in life. Couldn’t control the outcome of the games but I could (can)) teach kids to control and show their best attitude and effort. I bet that is what the vast majority of coaches do. They leave the complaining to the parents and alum. 

I think you're right. I feel like I have been unfair with my opinion of private schools and the challenges their coaches face. I have never been one of the 17 coaches on the sideline of a school with 258 kids. So, what would you see as challenges that are private school coaches/teams face?

18 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

I bet they all kind of look this this, but probably outdoors under the bleachers: 

Sorry that "hegemony" is too high brow for you.

 

North Knox's weight room is actually outstanding. If he were placing a bet that the Crawford County weight room is nicer than any private school weight room, he wouldn't be able to afford tuition for his son next year.

8 hours ago, Just a dad said:

Some publics do have more problems. Especially the ones in urban areas. Public suburban’s tend to have all of the advantages (even over privates). Have you seen the weight room at Delta? How about the facilities at Hamilton Heights? I only reference those two because Chatard played there this year. Their facilities are beautiful. I don't even want to talk about the tax bases for Carmel/Fishers. For those few publics that do have these problems, and I would bet money that it is only a few, they have other concerns. For the rest of the publics, the majority, this argument does not apply. 
 

Additionally, I would be interested in knowing what percentage of a school is dedicated to this special “clientele” that you refer to. Maybe 5%? Will you let the privates carve out their special “clientele”? I’m referring to the kids who fill their extra-curriculars with robotics, chess club, multiple foreign languages and the other things they need to get into ivy league schools? I bet the offset wouldn’t benefit the publics in that case. 

I have not seen the weight room at Delta or the facilities at Hamilton Heights. Have you? Do they give dads tours of the opponents facilities prior to tournament games? You seem to have a pretty good feel for what the majority of the state's schools are in but I believe I read you just moved to Indiana. Have you ever been to the weight room at Crawford County? Tell City? Paoli? Brownstown? North Knox? 

15 hours ago, WWFan said:

Was just a general question and statement. Shesh. 

Thou Shall Not Question!

1 hour ago, Just a dad said:

Seems like those schools have larger problems than worrying about how many football games their team wins. 

You just agreed with him. You're saying that publics have more problems due to their clientele that they have to focus on that makes the extra-curriculars more difficult. Let alone the other factors. 

1 hour ago, oldtimeqb said:

Curious where you looked. 

https://www.reitzmemorial.org/resource-accommodations

I will agree the Life Skills classroom and student count are both smaller than a public school.  

I looked at Mater Dei and Providence. 

9 minutes ago, Whitehat said:

They all have access to it as needed. Private school students do not, even though private school parents also pay taxes.

Why would private schools need it? I've been on two different private school sites and a special education department is nowhere to be found. If you don't have students with special needs, why would you get money allocated for students with special needs?

2 minutes ago, Tippy said:

Some people on here won't be happy until all the P/P's do go 0-10.  Do you think Hammond Noll should be moved up?  

If all P/P's went 0-10, would they be put in their own tournament?

1 minute ago, kdets89 said:

It really isn't to anyone with a basic understanding of economics or cost accounting.  Pure fantasy.

 

Yes, we can.  And have.  Several times.

Go ahead.

10 minutes ago, Whitehat said:

We control the enrollment. All your theories are true. The board of the school actually meets before every school year and decides which athletes are getting free tuition, and final cuts are made to bring the total enrollment down to desired levels specifically for football classification. It’s usually the theatre nerds that don’t make the final cut. Their loss.

I get making a joke about this question but it's a legitimate question. Why is enrollment down at these schools? Is it public schools in the area are a better option than they used to be? Some of these are saying their building can hold 850 but are only at 600. That's a huge disparity. 

The enrollment is down at all 3 of our county schools and surrounding counties. It's not because they're enrolling at private schools, as there are none in the area. It's because there are fewer school age people in the county due to many jobs no longer being in the county.

6A-12.5% of sectionals were won by privates. 0% of regionals, semi-states, state were won by privates.

4A-12.5% of sectionals were won by privates. 0% of regionals, semi-states, state were won by privates.

3A-12.5% of sectionals were won by privates. 25% of regionals were won by privates, 50% of semi-states were won by privates, 100% of state championships were won by privates.

2A-25% of sectionals were won by privates. 50% of regionals were won by privates, 50% of semi-states were won by privates, 100% of state championships were won by privates.

1A-37.5% of sectionals were won by privates, 25% of regionals were won by privates, 50% of semi-states were won by privates 100% of state championships were won by privates.

State wide:

12.5% of all sectionals won by privates, 16.7% of all regionals won by privates, 33.3% of all semi-states won by privates,, 50% of all state championships won by privates.

Private Schools make up 7% of all football schools.

These numbers would probably be a little higher if the officials in the North Posey/Mater Dei sectional semi-final could count to 12 on the final play.

https://lckingscourier.net/25028/student-life/is-it-time-for-private-schools-to-have-their-own-separate-class-2/

2 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

Well said. What most people don’t seem to understand is Luers plays up all year until the tourney. They play 3-4 6A teams, 2-3 5A teams, and the rest are 3 or 4A teams. They were beaten badly by East Noble and New Haven early in the year, both 4A teams, and lost by 3 points to 6A Homestead, who gave Snider their only loss. 

Don't most privates play up during the season? We don't have many privates schools in our area. Mater Dei plays up. Providence stays independent so they can play up in their schedule. I assume this is common.