wabashalwaysfights

I can't help but wonder; if, and that to me is still an if on July 9, 2020 at 1:01pm EST, the NCAA went nuclear and cancelled their Fall sports across any or all divisions, what, if any, pressure is put on the IHSAA since the NCAA headquarters is in Indianapolis? Check that, it's 1:02pm now.

And I will, just as you'll keep hijacking threads... It appears that the Michigan High School Athletic Association has supported 8 man football for at least 9 years based on their website, and as I think the initial poster may have indicated, it is growing in Illinois. I have also seen that there may bee some interest in Ohio in recent years? I'm just curious to see what led to this in some schools, whether these are new programs whole cloth or transition program from an existing 11 man program. One article I found was on an Illinois program that started their 8 man organization, which is currently not part of the Illinois High School Athletics Association. They made the move from an existing 11 man program. I couldn't find a number on how many 8 man teams there were in Michigan, but they follow a similar playoff qualification points system with a 32 team playoff.

And I will continually reject your very premise of "IHSAA mandated minimum participation levels," but again, that is not the purpose of this thread. Start another thread to discuss this if you want, but if you don't want to do that, I would ask that you take your ball and go home, we don't need it to play. To your second comment, which tread around the point; this is blatantly and completely wrong. Flag football is little more than 7 on 7; 8 man, if I understand correctly, uses the same basic rules for blocking, tackling, etc as 11 man, the differences being in, obviously, the number of players who are allowed to participate in a play at a time and the size of the field. It still allows for offensive and defensive line play, tackling, special teams, etc. The statements in bold above are contradictory. If you are really okay with small communities pursuing this, why would you continue to "lobby hard against" a proposal of this type? You can't have it both ways, either you care or you don't. Your continued insistence on posting in this thread indicates that you do, if you don't, then move on. Your thoughts on numbers and/or passion are noted and already inferred.

These, to me, are interesting questions. I think it all depends on how many/if any current 1A schools would actually make the move. It could run the spectrum from none, to a few, to a colloquial bunch. You may see more 6 and 7 team sectionals at 1A, but again, it would all depend on who would choose to stay and who would choose to go to 8 man.

I believe in the ability of a local community making an educated and informed decision on any and all after school programs, including football, based on their values and priorities. Further, I believe that individual communities do not need outside help in making these judgement unless they ask for it. Additionally, I believe, quite frankly, that those decisions are none of my, or your, damn business (unless, of course, this is an issue in your or my community). I believe that your "metrics" to define "chronically sick programs" consist, primarily, of essentially win/loss records over time, which as I have previously made clear are far from the only "metrics" at play in making a sound decision on whether any extra-curricular activity is deserving of a community's support. I believe you have the right to speak/post on this forum, and specifically this thread, as you wish, so long as it stays on topic. I believe you have made your point clear; you do not support 8-man football in Indiana and you have further stated your reasoning for that. I, and multiple other here, reject your reasoning on it's basic principles. I believe, therefore, that your contributions to this thread have run their course and that your participation therein is not longer necessary or productive. I believe that there is a group on this board who have expressed interest in this proposal as a legitimate possibility moving forward and wish to have additional dialogue on the topic without having your thoughts, to which you have made clear, continually interjected. Thus, I believe that it would be in the best interests of all if you ceased posting on this thread as you have made your point, and it is evident that no one's mind here on either side will be changed. I believe you will not stop for your own reasons and I have no way of stopping you from that. To answer your question more directly; no, I do not believe, based on my perception of the purpose of extra-curricular athletics within the framework of a young person's education that here are any "chronically sick programs in the state that are teetering on the edge of viability." Furthermore, even if there were, it is none of my business... I know I said I was done, but since you asked me a question directly, I felt compelled, out of courtesy, to respond. I have no questions for you and therefore do not expect, nor do I care for a response.

I would edit my previous post, but my phone will not allow. Two more things and then I'm done with the @DT. First of all, your lane is very obviously not Indiana high school football in general, it is the promotion of "big school" football that produces the majority of the "talent" in the state. If that's your focus, fine, but that makes you the guy on the interstate who puts his cruise control on right at 70 and tries to pass a semi without accelerating. Sure, you're "in your lane" and "following the letter of the law" but it's also inconsiderate at best and dangerous at worst. Finally, I've coached teams that went 9-1 and teams that went 0-10 and don't you dare tell me that those kids that went 0-10 didn't take away anything positive from that season because they did. I've spoken to those kids, who are now young men, and they certainly wished things would have gone differently, but they wouldn't trade those experiences for anything. But sure, go ahead and pound the table demanding that all those experiences shouldn't happen. It's insulting, and contrary to the purposes of this forum. I'm done.

Incorrect. At most small schools that currently have a football team their athletic department's budget relies on that income to support multiple other programs. You take that income away, you force the department to make deeper cuts across the board. I too share the idea that football is not a "holy grail," if a kid doesn't want to play, a kid shouldn't play. But where there is enough interest, whether it is for 11 or 8 man, a school and community should be allowed to offer it as an option, regardless of the quality of the "product" on the field. You are, in fact, for taking opportunities away from kids, but you will never admit it. Moving on... I watched some 8 man stuff on YouTube, it looked pretty cool. I'd still like to hear some of the coaching side of things.

No list posted, but it matters not. I've never coached at an urban school, large or small, but I have plenty of friends that do. I can tell you from conversations that I have had with those coaches that while we in "rugged rural outpost communities" need sports like football for our student-athletes, those urban areas need them equally as bad. Of course, that doesn't matter to you; all you care about is the "product." By the way, those large school colleagues I referenced are often some of the biggest admirers of small school football in general. Not all of them, but many. They recognize the mental gymnastics small school coaching staffs have to go through in order to solve personnel issues and, more importantly, the physical, mental, and emotional toughness of the student-athletes who play both sides of the ball and special teams. But, again, that doesn't matter to you, all you care about is the "product." I'm going to do something that I am pretty sure you are incapable of; I apologize. I try to ignore your contraction talk as much as I can, but when you weasel your way into EVERY thread with this nonsense, you make it impossible. "Clicks, clicks, clicks, they'll do anything to get a few, Tick, tick, tick, that's the sound before my head explodes, Quit, quit, quit, look at you up on your pedestal, Quick, quick, quick, hear the critics come, it's time to go..." ("Paid My Dues, NF) Go ahead, stay on your ignorant pedestal, but I make it a point to stay in my lane, it's time you learned to stay in yours.

At this point I don't wonder, I fear.

Preposterous. If small school football is that far beneath you, disregard it and move on. No one is forcing you to watch/comment on us small town folks who support kids in an attempt to give them an opportunity to compete and become better, more well rounded young men (and women, I've seen a few girls play here in recent years). If a community wants to and is able to support a program, let them, if not, that is fine, but we "neanderthals" do not appreciate or need you descending from on high telling us how to best support our kids and our communities. High school football is not about producing "more talent" than our neighboring states or for "the next level." As a coach, that is the furthest thing from my mind. If a student-athlete has the capacity to compete at the next level, I/we support that pursuit, but my focus is typically on the student-athlete who needs football because he doesn't have much else to motivate him. But sure, go ahead and let's tell a community that our state's overall "product" trumps their willingness and desire to provide opportunity for their student-athletes that they see fit. Rant over.

This is not good to say the least.

Love that song. So I didn't say anything about mama... or trucks... or trains... or prison... or gettin drunk... what else did I miss?

Absolutely. I didn't mean to imply that they weren't student-athletes at all.

The current flag football program, per your article, is part of the Unified Program. My understanding of the Unified Program is that the IHSAA partners, at least perhaps unofficially, partners with the Special Olympics to provide student-athletes with special needs an opportunity to safely participate in athletics. It is a wonderful program, but I don't think that it serves the same purpose as the push for Co-OP and/or 8-man football investigation. In other words, the existing flag-football program is NOT a "better option" than 11 or 8 man football for communities who want to support a program.

From a coaching angle, I wonder what the x's and o's looks like for 8 man. I'm sure there's a lot of material out there, I just haven't had time to look. I'm an offensive line guy at heart and the thought of 2 fewer up front hurts my soul.

This again? Can I save us all some time here... "Blah, blah, blah, why don't you all take this virus as seriously as you should?" "Blah, blag, blag, where is the proof that this is any worse than any other illness?" "Blah, blah, blah, science..." "Blah, blah, blag, but this science..." Accusations of callousness... Accusations of cowardice... (5 pages later) *rinse and repeat the above* Topic shutdown... (24-48 hours later) "New" thread questioning where things stand now... See above... I'd ask if I missed anything, but I think you get the gist... Over/under on this thread: 3 pages

Topic shutdown in 5... 4... 3...

This is how I feel when I go to read the "news" anymore... I'll refrain from saying why I dread it... One thing I don't get: everybody is talking about how there is a new spike in cases but doesn't that make sense assuming that we are testing more? Or does that only make sense if you, like me, assume that this stuff has been here for a lot longer than early to mid March? I feel like the early days of returning to workouts actually favors smaller schools. It is much easier to schedule small group workouts to comply with the current suggested guidelines when you are dealing with smaller groups to begin with. I wonder how larger schools, 3-6A, are planning to move forward? Seems like it could be a bit difficult.

Oh good grief...

I haven't seen the most recent proposal, but I'm guessing if its like the other prospective plans I've seen they will also be playing only in select southern cities?

With you all the way big guy... Hope people far more powerful than we are as well...

No, it's largely because of the weather. Thats all well and good, and I'm sure there are dips, but I think if I'm unaware of how much family traveling there is on fall break, you are equally unaware or are underestimating how much more family traveling there is in spring break. Part of that too is the extended time of Spring break; many if not most schools now have a two week spring break and while you would think that would mean that the break becomes "enclosed" (that is, kids won't miss school outside of that period) it doesn't. Sorry, but at the end of the day, comparing fall break to spring break is comparing apples to oranges. They are both fruit, both good for you, but they are definitely not the same. Spring break and fall break are both breaks in the school calendar, families will travel, but they are definitely not the same. Folks anticipate nicer weather in the spring, people set up their work schedule for spring break, which is often done years in advance. It just is not the same no matter how you slice it, and that's not going to change, even in a situation like this. If the powers that be still choose to flip the calendar for whatever reason, that's fine and it may work out, but this notion that everybody's going to abandon their traditional spring break plans just because football would be played in the spring is just not logical.

Not the same... not even close to the same as spring break.

I think most parents I've run into make their spring break plans whenever they want whether it's already been scheduled or not. We've had a two week spring break for years now and you would be shocked at the number of kids that we still have miss up to a week of school because "we've already made our plans." I don't think a pandemic, epidemic, natural disaster, or end of the world is going to change that. As our softball coach points out every year, "God forbid you mess with someone's spring break!"