Bobref Posted September 17, 2025 Posted September 17, 2025 I usually try to stay out of political topics, since 1) There’s no way to resolve them in an online “debate,” and 2) it’s depressing. But the current “debate” in this country over childhood vaccinations, after years when this appeared to be a settled issue, really ticks me off. The idea of grown men risking the lives of defenseless children simply to make political capital is sickening. The dismantling of the CDC, the replacement of actual scientists with political hacks, and the idiotic fearmongering about autism or other issues concerning vaccines has made the US a laughingstock in the international scientific community. But far worse than that is the public health danger posed by the declining vaccination rates that have already led to outbreaks of measles in several places — resulting in hospitalizations and several deaths. So, let’s have a civil conversation about the Administration’s anti-vaccination policies, which it justifies in the name of “individual freedom.”
Muda69 Posted September 17, 2025 Posted September 17, 2025 11 minutes ago, Bobref said: So, let’s have a civil conversation about the Administration’s anti-vaccination policies, which it justifies in the name of “individual freedom.” Interesting that you put Individual Freedom in air quotes here, Bob. You don't believe in the concept of bodily autonomy when it comes to vaccines? Do you believe individuals should be forced by the state to receive certain vaccines?
Bobref Posted September 17, 2025 Author Posted September 17, 2025 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Muda69 said: Interesting that you put Individual Freedom in air quotes here, Bob. You don't believe in the concept of bodily autonomy when it comes to vaccines? Do you believe individuals should be forced by the state to receive certain vaccines? Yes. There are always trade-offs for living in an organized society. Do you think Highway speed limits are an unwarranted intrusion on one’s individual freedoms? Edited September 17, 2025 by Bobref
Muda69 Posted September 17, 2025 Posted September 17, 2025 13 minutes ago, Bobref said: Do you think Highway speed limits are an unwarranted intrusion on one’s individual freedoms? Given the fact they are almost universally ignored then yes, they are unwarranted by the state. All highways should be privately owned and operated anyway.
Bobref Posted September 17, 2025 Author Posted September 17, 2025 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Muda69 said: Given the fact they are almost universally ignored then yes, they are unwarranted by the state. All highways should be privately owned and operated anyway. How about things like drinking water standards and building codes? Also unwarranted invasions of one’s personal freedoms? Ever heard of “The Social Contract?” Edited September 17, 2025 by Bobref
Muda69 Posted September 17, 2025 Posted September 17, 2025 5 minutes ago, Bobref said: How about things like drinking water standards and building codes? Also unwarranted invasions of one’s personal freedoms? Yes. Functions that can be monitored by the private sector, and voluntarily followed. 7 minutes ago, Bobref said: Ever heard of “The Social Contract?” Yes, and it is basically a fiction. Come now Bob, you are a lawyer. How enforceable is a "contract" that one can't sign? I suggest you read this short missive: https://store.mises.org/Myth-of-the-Social-Contract-Refuting-Common-Arguments-for-Government-Authority-P11268.aspx
Bobref Posted September 17, 2025 Author Posted September 17, 2025 13 minutes ago, Muda69 said: Yes. Functions that can be monitored by the private sector, and voluntarily followed. Yes, and it is basically a fiction. Come now Bob, you are a lawyer. How enforceable is a "contract" that one can't sign? I suggest you read this short missive: https://store.mises.org/Myth-of-the-Social-Contract-Refuting-Common-Arguments-for-Government-Authority-P11268.aspx The Social Contract is the basis upon which organized societies exist. Without it, civilization would not have progressed beyond tribal villages.
Muda69 Posted September 17, 2025 Posted September 17, 2025 13 minutes ago, Bobref said: The Social Contract is the basis upon which organized societies exist. Without it, civilization would not have progressed beyond tribal villages. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin.
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