Downfall of the SEC

[23andCounting]

ESPN cites the portal and NIL as the main factors in the rise of the Big Ten and the fall of the SEC. While that's probably true, they also cite that their programs were built on good local talent that is now being dispersed to other parts of the country. Basically saying their talent is being stolen without saying "our talent is being stolen." The question for me becomes: Is a kid who is born in the Southeast somehow a better football player than a kid who is born in the Northwest or the Northeast? There was a time when USC ruled the roost. It's called coaching and building a program, which the SEC did a good job of. Within the rules set forth for all programs to follow? Speculation says that the SEC bent the rules more than most, hence the rise of their conference. 

I feel like Suburban Indy is a good case in point. They are the SEC of Indiana, or at least what the SEC was a few years ago. Is it because they have better talent in Central Indiana? Of course not, a kid in Indy isn't taller, stronger, or faster than a kid anywhere else. It's simply because they hire good coaches and and build good programs in the process. The SEC has done that, and some say, with the help of some "extra" incentives given to their players that most colleges around the country weren't privy to as not to bend the rules. 

Long story short. Are players from the Southwest being highjacked from them? I was just looking at IU's roster. They do have their fair share of players from the Southeast, but it looks like the majority are from the Midwest. Anyone care to do Ohio State? Georgia? How many of Georgia's key players are NOT from the Southeast. 

Maybe I'm in denial, but just like basketball (this isn't the 70's anymore), there's good football talent at every corner of the country and much more in between. 

[Sparty]

Good points, but man, there sure are some schools from central “ish” Indiana (using your example, and to take New Pal into account) that have say a 4A enrollment, looks like a 5A/6A team compared to some around NWI/NCI.  

[Muda69]

1 hour ago, 23andCounting said:

Is it because they have better talent in Central Indiana? Of course not, a kid in Indy isn't taller, stronger, or faster than a kid anywhere else. It's simply because they hire good coaches and and build good programs in the process.

And the population density of Marion and surrounding donut counties means you have more "OMG! Athletes!" to choose from.   

Would a coach rather have one "Johnny 1to5-Star" athlete on his team or 4-5?

 

[Bash Riprock]

3 hours ago, 23andCounting said:

ESPN cites the portal and NIL as the main factors in the rise of the Big Ten and the fall of the SEC. While that's probably true, they also cite that their programs were built on good local talent that is now being dispersed to other parts of the country. Basically saying their talent is being stolen without saying "our talent is being stolen." The question for me becomes: Is a kid who is born in the Southeast somehow a better football player than a kid who is born in the Northwest or the Northeast? There was a time when USC ruled the roost. It's called coaching and building a program, which the SEC did a good job of. Within the rules set forth for all programs to follow? Speculation says that the SEC bent the rules more than most, hence the rise of their conference. 

I feel like Suburban Indy is a good case in point. They are the SEC of Indiana, or at least what the SEC was a few years ago. Is it because they have better talent in Central Indiana? Of course not, a kid in Indy isn't taller, stronger, or faster than a kid anywhere else. It's simply because they hire good coaches and and build good programs in the process. The SEC has done that, and some say, with the help of some "extra" incentives given to their players that most colleges around the country weren't privy to as not to bend the rules. 

Long story short. Are players from the Southwest being highjacked from them? I was just looking at IU's roster. They do have their fair share of players from the Southeast, but it looks like the majority are from the Midwest. Anyone care to do Ohio State? Georgia? How many of Georgia's key players are NOT from the Southeast. 

Maybe I'm in denial, but just like basketball (this isn't the 70's anymore), there's good football talent at every corner of the country and much more in between. 

Its an interesting question, and perhaps the chicken before the egg type thing.

The one common denomimator to me seem to be the coach.  I look back on the great southern teams (more than a single year flash in the pan) they had great coaches that brought players to their school.  Florida with Spurrier and Meyer, Bama with Bryant and Saban, Florida State with Bowden, Texas with Royal, Miami with Snellenberger and Johnson, etc.  Outside the south Penn State with Paterno, Nebraska with Osbourne, Oklahoma with Switzer and Stoops, OSU with Hayes and Meyer, Michigan with Bo, USE with McKay and Robinson, etc.  Perhaps they do pull in the best of their regions, but as they programs have lost those coaches, their performance has suffered.  It would be interesting to go back and look at these programs when they were on top and track where they pulled thier players.  I don't think one could dispute the overall quality of players from the southeast, but are they better and more of them than from Texas, California, Pennslyvania, Ohio, etc?  Not sure.   I do know teams like IU have pulled kids from Florida and Georgia for years, but are they pulling more or better players from those states now?  If so, is it purely money?  What role does TV networks play as more games today are on TV, so mom and dad can watch regardless where they live?  But it seems like the number one factor is the quality of the head coach.  The programs on the south (or anywhere) rise and fall depending on who is in charge.  Even OSU declined with certain head coaches...thus go after Meyer.  Bama is a great case study.

Players absolutely matter...but as we are seeing with IU and historically others schools, the coach may be the number one factor.

[23andCounting]

8 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

Its an interesting question, and perhaps the chicken before the egg type thing.

The one common denomimator to me seem to be the coach.  I look back on the great southern teams (more than a single year flash in the pan) they had great coaches that brought players to their school.  Florida with Spurrier and Meyer, Bama with Bryant and Saban, Florida State with Bowden, Texas with Royal, Miami with Snellenberger and Johnson, etc.  Outside the south Penn State with Paterno, Nebraska with Osbourne, Oklahoma with Switzer and Stoops, OSU with Hayes and Meyer, Michigan with Bo, USE with McKay and Robinson, etc.  Perhaps they do pull in the best of their regions, but as they programs have lost those coaches, their performance has suffered.  It would be interesting to go back and look at these programs when they were on top and track where they pulled thier players.  I don't think one could dispute the overall quality of players from the southeast, but are they better and more of them than from Texas, California, Pennslyvania, Ohio, etc?  Not sure.   I do know teams like IU have pulled kids from Florida and Georgia for years, but are they pulling more or better players from those states now?  If so, is it purely money?  What role does TV networks play as more games today are on TV, so mom and dad can watch regardless where they live?  But it seems like the number one factor is the quality of the head coach.  The programs on the south (or anywhere) rise and fall depending on who is in charge.  Even OSU declined with certain head coaches...thus go after Meyer.  Bama is a great case study.

Players absolutely matter...but as we are seeing with IU and historically others schools, the coach may be the number one factor.

Agree. I think Cignetti is proving that coaching trumps everything else. This thread was inspired by an article I read on ESPN where the writer felt like more and more southeastern talent is being spread around the country due to the NIL and the transfer portal. Kind of a "they are stealing our kids" kind of thing. I too think that there is a lot of talent from California, Texas, Ohio, and Pennsylvania that matches up just fine with the southeast. 

10 hours ago, Muda69 said:

And the population density of Marion and surrounding donut counties means you have more "OMG! Athletes!" to choose from.   

Would a coach rather have one "Johnny 1to5-Star" athlete on his team or 4-5?

 

Wow, didn't think of that. Thanks for the education. 

[Muda69]

18 hours ago, 23andCounting said:

Wow, didn't think of that. Thanks for the education. 

You are welcome.